To Hell and Back - Visiting Gehenna

[St. SteVen]

Were you a missionary? I've been one, people avoid you like the plague. Christians in this country are astoundingly lazy. In my time with the Billy Graham crusades, the reason Christian didn't attend church is they didn't feel like going on Sunday. Sure, they have excuses, but to show up and sit down they couldn't do it. I've been to hundreds of mainstream and back woods churches, but none were bad, but some were long and Boring.

Yes. I did a full Summer missions trip as a young adult.

People have good reasons for not going to church. I used to have a real problem with that.
I am much more understanding now. I could have left the church based on bad things that happened.
I decided to stay. I guess I don't know any better. I like my current church.
But I wouldn't want to go anywhere else.

/

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So... God is John 3:16 now?

God and His Word cannot be separated... so John 3:16 is an eternal Truth that came our of God... It's God inspired and God breathed Truth!

That's one to the demonic slick tricks to downplay what God has said.

It's the same thing the devil did with Adam and Eve telling them they should ignore the Word of the Lord.

Bad things happen to those that fall for DST (demonic slick tricks)

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I decided to stay. I guess I don't know any better. I like my current church.

Most churches are just social clubs with a tax exemption... they get that by dropping Jesus Name every now and again.

I spent years attending several churches at all the after church functions they sit around and talk about everything under the sun except for God's Word.

Very little church bidness going on. Of course now days when they do church bidness they are spewing false doctrine!

 

[TheHC]

I know the folks that have been deceived in to believing there is no hell hate to see evidence like this come out, you can't just ignore what the Lord says.

“Evidence”?

This is a parable, as the Gospel context states. Mark 4:34 & Matthew 13:34 both say “without an illustration he [Jesus] would not speak to them.”
Why force an explanation of one Scripture, to the exclusion of many other related Scriptures that don’t fit that explanation?
When that happens, you can’t change Scripture, but you can change your understanding of them.

And hell is not Gehenna / Lake of Fire.

Since you think the Lake of Fire is literal…. and death is hurled / cast / thrown into it…. tell me, how do you burn death?
It’s another illustrative use / symbolic use of words.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

“Evidence”?

Feel free to believe God's Word is not true and instead go by other people's opinions based on the blind mind of mankind who wouldn't know the difference between gold and dirt if it weren't for the Lord.
It ends badly... but, oh well.

 

[TheHC]

Feel free to believe God's Word is not true and instead go by other people's opinions based on the blind mind of mankind who wouldn't know the difference between gold and dirt if it weren't for the Lord.
It ends badly... but, oh well. View attachment 39173

My cousin, I do claim that God’s Word is truth…
But accurate understanding of it is woefully lacking!

At Luke 10:21, Jesus said his Father either hides it , or reveals it.
To whom, do you think, God would reveal His truth? To those who are obedient, or to the disobedient?

Now, please don’t misunderstand me: I’m not calling you disobedient. But you are repeating concepts / dogma that the disobedient leaders of Christendom have been promoting for centuries.

Has John 15:17 been obeyed by Christendom in wartime? What about Matthew 5:44? It gets thrown out! Are they really Christ’s friends? — John 15:14
Since it’s inception, christendom’s leaders have encouraged the sheep to become embroiled in the world’s conflicts….christians from one country, killing their brother christians from another country, each receiving their respective church’s blessing!

Everything they support should be questioned! Especially their dogma!

No wonder Jesus prophesied that He would say “Away from Me, you workers of lawlessness!” — Matthew 7:21-23

Good night.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But accurate understanding of it is woefully lacking!

I know right!

Can you imagine people claiming there is no hell after all the scripture references that says there is!

That's an example of woefully lacking understanding if there ever was one right?

 

[TheHC]

Jesus said there is a hell with an unquenchable fire, and I'll just have to believe it.

No, Jesus used the word Gehenna there. That is not Hades, or the English Hell.
Check it for yourself, using an unbiased source.

Some translators have applied English words that don’t accurately portray the Greek meaning in the New Testament; they’d rather promote a priori biases. They’ve done the same with the Hebrew Scriptures.

That’s why in-depth research is important!

Take care.

 

[Rockerduck]

No, Jesus used the word Gehenna there. That is not Hades, or the English Hell.
Check it for yourself, using an unbiased source.

Some translators have applied English words that don’t accurately portray the Greek meaning in the New Testament; they’d rather promote a priori biases. They’ve done the same with the Hebrew Scriptures.

That’s why in-depth research is important!

Take care.

I went to bible college and studied Indepth and God has blessed 400 years of the King James bible and over a billion copies all over the world. It was used in all the revivals. Europe in the 1700's had 30-year revival in that spawned revival in the USA. In the 1800's the revival in Europe and USA and countless missionary journeys. The King Jame scholars were superior to those of today. They understood Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. They prayed and the Holy Spirit guided them. I'll take the King James bible over all translations. Remember the translations are for profit and the King James bible was the standard. I'll stand on the word of God from the King James bible, thank you. I've heard your response for over 35 years.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, Jesus used the word Gehenna there. That is not Hades, or the English Hell.
Check it for yourself, using an unbiased source.

Some translators have applied English words that don’t accurately portray the Greek meaning in the New Testament; they’d rather promote a priori biases. They’ve done the same with the Hebrew Scriptures.

That’s why in-depth research is important!

Take care.

What is the verse in question? Is this it?
It definitely says Gehenna in the original NT Greek as translated to read hell in English.





/ cc: @Rockerduck

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I went to bible college

That's where preachers get indoctrinate with man made ideas about God's Word, there and in seminaries.

I use the KJV as well but I'm not naive to believe there are no errors in it due to the translators not being literally perfect in their translating ability.

The reason I've stuck with the KJV is it goes hand in hand with the Strong's Greek and Hebrew dictionary making it convenient to get in to the original text

I always use the Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software which can be found online at Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software
(this is a free program BTW)

 

[Rockerduck]

That's where preachers get indoctrinate with man made ideas about God's Word, there and in seminaries.

I use the KJV as well but I'm not naive to believe there are no errors in it due to the translators not being literally perfect in their translating ability.

The reason I've stuck with the KJV is it goes hand in hand with the Strong's Greek and Hebrew dictionary making it convenient to get in to the original text

I always use the Greek / Hebrew interlinear Bible software which can be found online at Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software
(this is a free program BTW)

Not so, it depends on the college. You learn religious history that many lack. Many leaders come to seminars and teach. This was a long time before the internet or cell phones, we had to use books, and learn about the mission field. So many things that seminaries don't do now. You actually had to take notes and study what you wrote for tests., no electric typewriters. I can go on and on. I went onto a good job with the Billy Graham crusade. I went to Liberty University. King James Bible was the only bible.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yeah, the reason why so much false doctrine is being passed around is because the preachers all go to bible school and seminary and get indoctrinated under the great false teachers such as Augustine, John Calvin, Martin Luther as well as the doctrines of catholicism.

Anytime I run in to a preacher that speaks highly of these people, I know I'm dealing with someone who has been deceived in to following the teachings of men rather than God's Word!

The Word of the Lord tells us there will be much deception in the end times and those that do not heed these warnings are primed for deception and most likely already are!


Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" or "I am called" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is NOT referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 

[TheHC]

What is the verse in question? Is this it?
It definitely says Gehenna in the original NT Greek as translated to read hell in English.

View attachment 39185
View attachment 39186


/ cc: @Rockerduck

Yes, that’s one. Matthew 18:9 is another.

They — hell & Gehenna — are two different things, with two different outcomes.

And neither are connected to conscious torment!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

And neither are connected to conscious torment!

Do you not believe what Jesus tells us in His teaching about the rich man and Lazarus? ( Luke 16:19–31 )

Jesus said the rich man went to hell and he was conscience, awake, and was tormented in fire.

If what you are saying is true... then what Jesus said is not true.

Is it going to be a problem for you if people throw what you're saying out and instead believe what Jesus said?

 

[TheHC]

Do you not believe what Jesus tells us in His teaching about the rich man and Lazarus? ( Luke 16:19–31 )

Jesus said the rich man went to hell and he was conscience, awake, and was tormented in fire.

If what you are saying is true... then what Jesus said is not true.

Is it going to be a problem for you if people throw what you're saying out and instead believe what Jesus said? View attachment 39215

I believe what Jesus says, as a parable. The rich man represented the Pharisees.

To understand it as otherwise, ie., literal, then Jesus would be contradicting other Scripture.

Would He do that?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Do you not believe what Jesus tells us in His teaching about the rich man and Lazarus? ( Luke 16:19–31 )

Jesus said the rich man went to hell and he was conscience, awake, and was tormented in fire.

If what you are saying is true... then what Jesus said is not true.

Is it going to be a problem for you if people throw what you're saying out and instead believe what Jesus said? View attachment 39215

Ppl of certain persuasive false men with false doctrines do not believe the word of God as it is written, nor do they trust in the HS to give them guidance.

It will truly be a rude awakening for some when they die and have NO second chance to get it right before judgement.

Hebrews 9:25-28
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Jesus suffered and offered himself ONCE, man will either accept him, believe his word and live by it's standards NOW, for after death comes judgment.

Matthew 24:13-15
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

 

[St. SteVen]

It will truly be a rude awakening for some when they die and have NO second chance to get it right before judgement.

Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Christ or the gospel.
They didn't even have a first "chance". Actually, nothing is left to chance. God is sovereign, and God is love.

/

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

They didn't even have a first "chance"

That's not biblical at all.

IF that were true... God would be unjust and He's not.

The Lord has provided ALL people the opportunity to get born again according to scripture....

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

That's not biblical at all.

IF that were true... God would be unjust and He's not.

The Lord has provided ALL people the opportunity to get born again according to scripture....

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.