To Hell and Back - Visiting Gehenna

[TheHC]

Hell is eternal death and yes, it is forever.

You wrote this?

I must have taken this out of context, but I can’t see where. You were quoting someone, right? Hope so…

Because I know that you know this is inaccurate.

You meant Gehenna, right?

 

[TheHC]

Well, the :Lord says there is a hell and it's forever.

Where?
Where do the Scriptures say hell is “forever”?
I read that hell / hades is “thrown into” the Lake of Fire.

It is therefore not the Lake of Fire!

In fact, there is never any fire associated with hell, in the Greek Scriptures…. It is a mistranslation, designed by Christendom centuries ago, to scare people & control them.

 

[quietthinker]

Not the first time, but the second time that is his role to separate the sheep from the goats…..you have to have the correct bleat apparently….

do you have the correct bleat?

 

[St. SteVen]

You're obviously not interested in what God's Word actually teaches

Have you seen this?

The potential conceit of doctrinal individuality

Exploring the many facets of the issues of doctrinal unity and individuality. Issues range from the dictates of religious institutional tyranny on one extreme end of the spectrum, to freewheeling excesses of biblical interpretation on the other extreme end. Seeking balance somewhere in the...

www.christianityboard.com

/

 

[Aunty Jane]

do you have the correct bleat?

I'm working on it.....what about you?

I have often wondered about "the sheep and the goats" as both were clean animals in Israel, and both could be offered for sacrifice and eaten for food, even at the Passover meal....
They are physically different and their coats are not the same, but they sound very similar.

So what distinguishes one from the other so that Jesus selects the sheep for everlasting life, and the goats for everlasting death?

Read the account in Matt 25:31-46....

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

So, its the conduct of the sheep in how they treat Christ's "brothers" that distinguishes them from the goats.

The "sheep" assist Christ's anointed "brothers" who are "adopted" by his Father, and chosen to reign with him in heaven. These ones will receive special attention from satan and his cronies, creating a need to support them through the trials they will face whilst still in the flesh on earth. The "sheep" support them in their times of need, whereas the "goats" offer no assistance at all. Their failure to support Christ's "brothers" is counted as a failure to support Christ himself. The penalty will be devastating because they seem oblivious to the fact that they have failed this test....yet the sheep have passed with flying colors.

What is there about the "sheep" that motivates them to offer this support? Isn't it their personality in naturally offering support to those of their spiritual family who are in need? These too seem unaware that they were supporting Christ's brothers, maybe because they support all their Christian brothers and sisters as a matter of course?

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[quietthinker]

I'm working on it.....what about you?

I have often wondered about "the sheep and the goats" as both were clean animals in Israel, and both could be offered for sacrifice and eaten for food, even at the Passover meal....
They are physically different and their coats are not the same, but they sound very similar.

So what distinguishes one from the other so that Jesus selects the sheep for everlasting life, and the goats for everlasting death?

Read the account in Matt 25:31-46....

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

So, its the conduct of the sheep in how they treat Christ's "brothers" that distinguishes them from the goats.

The "sheep" assist Christ's anointed "brothers" who are "adopted" by his Father, and chosen to reign with him in heaven. These ones will receive special attention from satan and his cronies, creating a need to support them through the trials they will face whilst still in the flesh on earth. The "sheep" support them in their times of need, whereas the "goats" offer no assistance at all. Their failure to support Christ's "brothers" is counted as a failure to support Christ himself. The penalty will be devastating because they seem oblivious to the fact that they have failed this test....yet the sheep have passed with flying colors.

What is there about the "sheep" that motivates them to offer this support? Isn't it their personality in naturally offering support to those of their spiritual family who are in need? These too seem unaware that they were supporting Christ's brothers, maybe because they support all their Christian brothers and sisters as a matter of course?

What are your thoughts on this?

I don't see myself as a bleater. I see myself as a witness to the resurrected Jesus

 

[MatthewG]

The prophecy of people being thrown in Ghenna was true. Jesus promised this to happen in the generation which would see all things when the age came to an end. One of those things would be people literally thrown in Ghenna physically. Today that place is no longer burning, it was also a place where I believe Isralites or pagans worshipped Molech, and sacrficed their children to this made idol. Again its no longer burning today, perhaps its more beautiful than it was before but Idk.

 

[Rockerduck]

We are created in God's image in that we are imbued with his moral qualities and his sense of justice. When we see an injustice take place we naturally bristle, but when justice is served, it sits well with us.
How can a just God who subjects his own children to the fires of hell for all eternity, after only a short lifetime of sin, be a just and loving God in any respect? How is the penalty in line with the crime? How is justice served if there is no opportunity to repent? Isn't that why we punish our own children? So that they will think twice about repeating what they did wrong? The punishment served a purpose....what purpose is served by eternal suffering in a fire from which there is no escape? Who told you that was true?

When the Jews fell to sacrificing their children in the fire to the god Molech, Jehovah said....
"They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’" (Jer 7:31)

"Gehenna" is "the Valley of Hinnom"...the very same place where the Israelites were burning their own children in a fire and God abhored the practice as one he had not commanded, nor had it even come into his heart to do such a thing.....why then would he do to his own children what he clearly condemned Israel for?

Jesus was describing something the Jews knew well...the fires of gehenna...the local rubbish dump, where the wicked were cast for the disposal of their bodies after death. Nothing alive ever went into gehenna. Those who take those things literally have done no Bible study.

If you could worship such a heinous god, then I pity you....

Philippians 1:28 - and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that from God.
Hebrews 2.3 - how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,

I've felt the hands of Satan himself grabbing and pulling me. Hell is a real place.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't see myself as a bleater. I see myself as a witness to the resurrected Jesus

Oh... I thought your question was about a choice between sheep and goats?

do you have the correct bleat?

Isn't that what this is asking? Perhaps we didn't understand?

/

 

[Rockerduck]

If there is a hell (ECT), then God's thoughts are LOWER than our thoughts, NOT higher.

/ cc: @Aunty Jane

You mock God?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
If there is a hell (ECT), then God's thoughts are LOWER than our thoughts, NOT higher.

You mock God?

Good question, thanks!
No. I mock deplorable man-made doctrines that slander God.
Do you you slander God with your chosen doctrine of character assassination?

/

 

[Rockerduck]

St. SteVen said:
If there is a hell (ECT), then God's thoughts are LOWER than our thoughts, NOT higher.

Good question, thanks!
No. I mock deplorable man-made doctrines that slander God.
Do you you slander God with your chosen doctrine of character assassination?

/

I fear God and never mock Him or slander. I don't use man's doctrines. If I have a question I ask God, then I get an answer.

 

[Rockerduck]

Matthew 7:13 - Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Matthew 7:13 - Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Ask God about this.

Did God create a situation whereby he would make sport with our souls?
A high-stakes game to play, or a puzzle to solve with eternal consequences? (there are few who find it)
Was this game made in such a way that the VAST majority would fail to win? (broad is the way that leads to destruction)

Or does it make more sense that this refers to consequences in the here and now?
Not a plan for ECT for countless billions. (there are few who find it)

/

 

[Rockerduck]

Ask God about this.

Did God create a situation whereby he would make sport with our souls?
A high-stakes game to play, or a puzzle to solve with eternal consequences? (there are few who find it)
Was this game made in such a way that the VAST majority would fail to win? (broad is the way that leads to destruction)

Or does it make more sense that this refers to consequences in the here and now?
Not a plan for ECT for countless billions. (there are few who find it)

/

John 3:16 says believe on Jesus or perish. It is really down to a choice. I've already asked God about this. He likened it to a free ocean cruise and everyone willingly going aboard it, happily even. The Cruise ship is hell. They will drive pass a church and not think twice but will go to a bar around the corner because they are comfortable in the world. God makes them uncomfortable.
In the mind of people, they would rather formulate a way to heaven than, knowing in their heart, that a Christian church is where they can seek God, even though God is near all the time.
They followed Jim Jones, and at first Hitler quoted scripture, Charles Manson had church at his ranch. People will follow the easy way, that is,,, the free cruise. Jesus says narrow is the way, and He means it.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Where?
Where do the Scriptures say hell is “forever”?
I read that hell / hades is “thrown into” the Lake of Fire.

It is therefore not the Lake of Fire!

In fact, there is never any fire associated with hell, in the Greek Scriptures…. It is a mistranslation, designed by Christendom centuries ago, to scare people & control them.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. The lake of fire is forever

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Yes, so let's take a look at the account Jesus gives of the rich man and lazarus in Luke 16:19-31

Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom (paradise) and the rich man goes to hell.

Luke 16:23,24
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

"Flame" in verse 24 is G5395 on Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionary

flox -- pronounced: flox
from a primary phlego (to "flash" or "flame"); a blaze: KJV -- flame(-ing).

So, unless someone has so much darkness in their understanding that they are going to call Jesus Christ a liar... there is fire in hell since we see the rich man being tormented in flames.

I know the folks that have been deceived in to believing there is no hell hate to see evidence like this come out, you can't just ignore what the Lord says.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Bible Verses about Hell Is Everlasting

Matthew 25:46
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life

Mark 9:47-48
If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever

Revelation 20:14
Then death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Ask God about this.

John 3:16 says believe on Jesus or perish.

So... God is John 3:16 now?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

God makes them uncomfortable.

If you asked them (which you won't) they would say it was the church that made them uncomfortable.
You seem to have the two confused.

Even many Christians don't attend church because of how BAD it has become.
I'm not one them. But I can sympathize. Seems you can't.

/

 

[Rockerduck]

If you asked them (which you won't) they would say it was the church that made them uncomfortable.
You seem to have the two confused.

Even many Christians don't attend church because of how BAD it has become.
I'm not one them. But I can sympathize. Seems you can't.

/

Were you a missionary? I've been one, people avoid you like the plague. Christians in this country are astoundingly lazy. In my time with the Billy Graham crusades, the reason Christian didn't attend church is they didn't feel like going on Sunday. Sure, they have excuses, but to show up and sit down they couldn't do it. I've been to hundreds of mainstream and back woods churches, but none were bad, but some were long and Boring.