To Judge

[justaname]

Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not that ye be not be judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

At what measure do you judge, or do you judge at all? Does it extend only to the length to which you have sinned, or does it go beyond that? Who do you judge, being those who are saved, those who are not, or both? What is the division line between judgement and concerned criticism?

 

[Secondhand Lion]

Is your question about judgment verses discernment? If Jesus is speaking in terms of "criticism" why does he first give us perspective? (Matthew 6:14-34) Why does he then give us immediate instruction on proper discernment and "reading" fruits? Is it only our current world view idea that makes "judgment" mean a criticism or telling someone they are not doing something right?

What does a judge do? Is there another part of "judgment"?

 

[aspen]

I like this topic.

I realized a couple of years ago that I was in the habit of judging everything and everyone, all the time. It was as if I was a dog marking my territory, using my opinion - and it was certainly worth about as much as urine.

Once I realized it and accepted the fact that I was actually using my opinion in an attempt to control my environment and predict the future, in order to manage my anxiety; I decided to surrender my opinion to God.

And you know, I didn't die when I simply allowed things to 'be'. Accepting reality in the moment without labeling it or giving it a moral endorsement / condemnation was refreshing for me and the people around me, In fact, I discovered that my opinion was not necessary or even effective in changing my world or the people around me.

So I got out of the labeling everything 'right' and 'wrong' business, by leaving it to God. Now, I have a lot more time on my hands to love people where they are at, which I believe humanity was created to do.

Of course, there are situations, especially on the job when I am being paid to make judgment and I take my job and those situations very seriously. I know that my opinion is really dependent on God's will in order to be worth anything - I was not created to make opinions, therefore, I know I am in over my head if I am doing it alone. I do not label provide a label for my clients, lightly - it involves really getting to know them and a lot of prayer. The same thing should be happening in churches when it becomes necessary to provide discipline for a member as described by Paul. There is a time to make judgments in our world, but it should be coupled with a great deal of prayer and discernment. It should also take up 5% of our time rather than 99%.

Hope that all makes sense

 

[ajdiamond]

So I got out of the labeling everything 'right' and 'wrong' business...

Good post. It was so freeing for me when I realized that I didn't have to have an opinion on everything.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

So your opinion on opinions....is to not have an opinion? lol I am just kidding. I might suggest though....it is impossible to not have an opinion, no matter how badly you try. And God certainly gave you the ability to form an accurate and biblical opinion on any topic. (Reference entire bible) "A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything". (not in the bible )

I absolutly agree whole-heartedly that there is a fine line between holding an opinion, and using that opinion to "brow beat" someone and look down your nose at them. You are also very correct that, as much as is possible in Christ and maintaining a positive witness....we have got to start meeting them "where they are".

 

[aspen]

So your opinion on opinions....is to not have an opinion? lol I am just kidding. I might suggest though....it is impossible to not have an opinion, no matter how badly you try. And God certainly gave you the ability to form an accurate and biblical opinion on any topic. (Reference entire bible) "A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything". (not in the bible )

I absolutly agree whole-heartedly that there is a fine line between holding an opinion, and using that opinion to "brow beat" someone and look down your nose at them. You are also very correct that, as much as is possible in Christ and maintaining a positive witness....we have got to start meeting them "where they are".

Good point. I think admitting it is an opinion is the first step. Then, proceed by not mistaking it for absolute truth. Thanks for your insight on this.

blessings

 

[justaname]

Paul give us a little light on the subject as alluded to by Aspen. Biblically we are called to be holy and conformed in Christ, to Christ, for Christ. Yet those who are not in Christ, how can we judge at all? Shall we look at sinners and say, "I can't believe they are sinning!" I think that to be silly, yet our brethren, what there? One might say, yeah but those are Catholics, oh they are Baptist, or those are Amish, or these are reformed and those are liberal. All I believe to be in Christ, yet the divisions exist none the less. What when we see them sin. Should we correct or stay silent, because "thats not my denomination." And even the brother or sister in the congregation, when we see them sin, shall we judge them? 1Corinthians 6:12 1Corinthians 10:23 Should we maybe say something like, "How by this are you reflecting Christ?"

The moralist has no problem looking at his brother and saying, "That man is sinning, justice must be sought!" The liberal looks and says, "I am not one to judge."

Take for example the Exodus generation, those who participate in mass genocide in today's society are called murders. One man steals to feed his child, yet another steals to feed his ego and wallet. Smoking, moderate drinking, coarse language, white lies, the list could extend and extend.
Judgement
When are you being self righteous, motivated by the thirst for recognition or vanity, and when is it sincerity, in love, directed by the HolySpirit?
When it builds as opposed to tear down. 1Thess 5:11
When it edifies and humbles as opposed to shames and scares.

 

[aspen]

Thank you justaname. You made some great points.

I especially like; 'The moralist has no problem looking at his brother and saying, "That man is sinning, justice must be sought!" The liberal looks and says, "I am not one to judge."

As a liberal, I can really fall into the trap of mercy over justice. All I can do is surrender to God for His justice because admittedly, mine is not worth much

 

[ajdiamond]

So your opinion on opinions....is to not have an opinion? lol I am just kidding.

I might suggest though....it is impossible to not have an opinion, no matter how badly you try.

When our minds are at work, yes, it will always provide an opinion. Or perhaps more generally stated, it will provide an interpretation of what it is seeing, But, we don't have to latch on to it and identify with it as "my opinion". When I got familiar with the working of my mind, I realized I could just withdraw attention from the opinion/thought/interpretation and it would float away, unheeded. I don't want to get too mystical or esoteric, but when we "be still" (still the mind), when we experientially abide in Christ, resting into the I Am presence of the Father, our awareness one with the Father, we don't have opinions.

Actually, everything after "be still" in the last sentence is important but not even needed for this discussion. When the mind is still, I don't have any opinions. And any that pop up are just memories of past interpretations, which, I have found, I don't have to latch onto. h34r:

 

[veteran]

Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not that ye be not be judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

At what measure do you judge, or do you judge at all? Does it extend only to the length to which you have sinned, or does it go beyond that? Who do you judge, being those who are saved, those who are not, or both? What is the division line between judgement and concerned criticism?

What our Lord Jesus is talking about is righteous judgment.

John 7:24
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
(KJV)


John 8:15-16
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, My judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father That sent Me.
(KJV)

Isa 11:3-5
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
(KJV)

Prov 24:19-25
19 Fret not thyself because of evil men, neither be thou envious at the wicked;
20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.
21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:
22 For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?
23 These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.
24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.
(KJV)

Prov 17:15
15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
(KJV)

Deut 16:18-20
18 Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment.
19 Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.
20 That which is altogether just shalt thou follow, that thou mayest live, and inherit the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
(KJV)

Deut 1:16-17
16 And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.
(KJV)


The matter involves both discernment and judgments against wickedness, and it's all to be according to WHAT GOD SAYS, not what the wicked say, and without respect of persons, without taking of bribes, etc.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I try not to care about what other people do and say and all that.

 

[justaname]

I thought it relevant to post this
1 Corinthians 4:5

Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.