Tongues ( 'sign' gifts ) did/did not cease?

[amigo de christo]

Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice! Phil 4:4

 

[MatthewG]

Im very much about people thinking critically, and studying the bible and looking at things even in history available to them.

I dont really encourage people to just submit to what the bible says just cause it says it; study is so important otherwise you could get lost in what one may believe is true but it is not.

Like having saying - oh you could heal them just lay hands on and believe.

What a devestsing thing to do to a person only to find out when it doesnt happen great grandpa passed away…

Anger at God and the other could come about. Even faithlessness.

The bible is for believers anyway just for clarity sake but not rverything in it pertains to you, or America.

If anything because of Jesus all nations have been blessed.

 

[dev553344]

One time God spoke to me in a paragraph of thought in an instance. Now I understood the thought as it was understandable. But it was like a different way of speaking that I had never experienced before. It was pretty awesome!

 

[amigo de christo]

Did you notice in 1 Cor 1:1-9 the statement "so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ"

is BACKED-UP with this GUARANTEE = verse 9 "GOD is FAITHFUL"

I remember when my elderly grandmother had passed away . The old lady had never stopped praying for me
, THOUGH I WAS A REBELLIOUS child . So many years later by grace i came to JESUS CHRIST .
Then about seven years later she died .
I remember looking at her face in the coffin and thinking she is at peace now .
And i remember thinking she will not have to face what is coming . AND IT IS COMING DAVID .
The greatest tribulation hour this world has ever seen against the lambs , IS COMING .
Tribulations have been INCREASING in this world , they have been . ITS LEADING to this last hour .
IT was never written tribulations will get less and less in this world and yet will find world peace .
THEY GET WORSE DAVID . and SOON MUCH WORSE . even western socities will see of it .
IT wont be a story we see on the news , in some country far , far away .
ITS GOING TO GO GLOBAL . WE WILL SEE IT . WE MUST ENDURE IT .
The betrayer , the unifyer of darkness and of the world RISES UP AS THE HEAD OVER A UNIFIED PEOPLES < TRIBES
TONGUES RELIGOINS . And the beast is A SAINT KILLER . i wish people understood that .
Folks keep thinking or teling themselves things that are not true . THE BEAST COMETH against the SAINTS
not the left behind aints . BUT THE SAINTS THEMSELVES . and i see this spirit of inquity
which is causing them as one to unify right under the lie and the FATHER OF LIES . ITS GONNA HAPPEN DAVID .
And we must not fear it . TO LIVE IS CHRIST TO DIE IS ONLY GAIN .

 

[amadeus]

Alot of the misconception simply is that people believe the bible was written tiday for them and all of it pertains to them, which in my opinion is a mistake.

I find that most of the Bible at one time or the other has applied to me or to others today. On this we disagree.

Even so; i must love and respect my neighbor; although they could condemn me for saying no i dont believe the gifts of the spirit is for ya today; though we still obtain the spirit - but it functions in the healings of our souls spiritually.

My own experience and the experience of others I have known make with disagree with you about the gifts being for today... but I will say no more on that.

If the gifts and if jesus is still coming back today Ama.

Then the churches out there need to get there act together and literally do everything the first century church bride had done; if they realize they will end failing in that endeavour perhaps another view is needed.

The churches as you mean churches might make some changes that would help some, but ultimately it comes back to the individual and his walk with God. God, I believe, judges each one in accord with what he has received and what he has done with what he has received as per...

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Of anyone who has more and better opportunities, talents, riches, education and knowledge more will be required than one who has less. Much is given, much is required.

God is fair and He alone is able to fairly judge each of us in accord with what he has received.

The spirit of Christ resides in you just as much as me, and everyone else who believes in resurrection but its not about flaunting gifts or look at me i can speak in tongues that is all the flesh. Or i swear that preacher healed my cancer when laid his hands on me (sometimes things simply heal on their own terms which is a miracle and some need to go the hospital).

Its about humbling oneself before God and loving Him for takening care of your sins through christ and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Most or even all of these things you mention come back to and are included in what Jesus said in the quotation I gave from Luke 12:48.

 

[MatthewG]

I find that most of the Bible at one time or the other has applied to me or to others today. On this we disagree.

What we agree on is the applicable circumstances which Jesus Christ, and the Apostles base one to focus their life on hope of being able to go and be with God after this life, while struggling in Christ, in dying to ourselves and raising with him. And if they wanted to be sasved from the wrath of God they needed to believe in the resurrected Christ.

There patterns with in the bible that can relate to many situations today, however there is and was only one situation then at that time - which was the consuming destruction that would fall on the nation.

Those things applied psychally. There was a Law - they had to go to the temple, sacrifice, all of those things are not done today so how do they apply to us? Even the healings of that time by Jesus Christ, and the disciples.

My own experience and the experience of others I have known make with disagree with you about the gifts being for today... but I will say no more on that.

Yes, confirmation bias exist. I never seen someone who was blind healed, and we have already talked about this. I believe the holy spirit can use gifted people to use their knowledge to be able to share that in faith God is a reality. Aside from faith - there would be no spiritual healings. Let alone then, a sign to show that God was among them, Jesus and his healings, and the disciples and their healings.

The churches as you mean churches might make some changes that would help some, but ultimately it comes back to the individual and his walk with God. God, I believe, judges each one in accord with what he has received and what he has done with what he has received as per...

Yes, that is true. Each person is responsible for there walk with God alone.

When I mean churches though, I am talking about people who subject themselves to bible literalcy - in which they believe the bible does pertain to them in an objective way and not a subjective alternative. They need to perform everything in the Gospels and then some, cause otherwise Jesus is not coming. Those in the first century did do, already.

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Of anyone who has more and better opportunities, talents, riches, education and knowledge more will be required than one who has less. Much is given, much is required.

What would be required though? Having faith, or having more talents? Surely all of us have been beaten a few times by the punishments of quenching the spirit.

God is fair and He alone is able to fairly judge each of us in accord with what he has received.

We know that.

Most or even all of these things you mention come back to and are included in what Jesus said in the quotation I gave from Luke 12:48.

Idk if that is true or not...

What about the Parable of Money (Talents), everyone has something to give, in essence when lead by the spirit.

Some hide that talent away by and through there own means of not trusting God to provide.



There really is a whole narrative and history that people really just dismiss alot of the time, I believe due to

1. Laziness
2. Uninterest
3. Desire to be comfortable where they are in their life.
4. Actually doing bible study at church - Book (verse by verse) - (Doesn't bring money in)
5. they dont care.

It doesn't matter to me really how old a person but they can always learn new things, even younger, and not everything our father, mother, grandpa, grandma, church pastor, could always be correct, if one doesn't go and study for themselves but of course.


"Much study wears a person out" but ... what else is there to do?

Love God and love your neighbor despite disagreements and what not and allow them freedom to decide for themselves, and to encourage people to find out on their own without standing on a dogmatic stance. Which no one has to submit to anything I have ever written or said but should in fact challenge themselves.

This will be the final message as far as I can see, will hear you out if you wanna address any of these things, but alas I find my efforts here are at the highest peak of what is on my heart.

No hatred to the calvinistic people, or jehovah witness, or mulsims, or mormons, I only just detest church leaders who do not feed there flock correctly, and that is something I suppose God will judge me and hold accountable for having detesting them who malign and manipulate their congregation and do not actually feed the bible by a good study and learning and allowing people to really grow in Christ. And allow them the ability to think and choose for themselves.

It's all out of love @amadeus and passion I suppose. Guilty passion for the truth of God and his complexity and his Son having victory now today, and for people to watch out and be cautious and not fall into traps that people dictate as a MUST DO THIS, when it may or may not truly be the case.

 

[Triumph1300]

We don't need the gifts at all, we have the bible. The only so called gift today that people claim to have and cling to as "proof" is tongues, which is a total joke.

Yes, we have the Bible.
As far as the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.....
the Lord says (in the Bible), he is the same yesterday, today and forever.
I leave it at that.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, we have the Bible.
As far as the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.....
the Lord says (in the Bible), he is the same yesterday, today and forever.
I leave it at that.

Hello Triumph, but that doesn't mean the time of Age remains the same and stays the same forever. That is just I guess the kicker for me.

to each his own take care.

 

[amadeus]

What we agree on is the applicable circumstances which Jesus Christ, and the Apostles base one to focus their life on hope of being able to go and be with God after this life, while struggling in Christ, in dying to ourselves and raising with him. And if they wanted to be sasved from the wrath of God they needed to believe in the resurrected Christ.

OK...

There patterns with in the bible that can relate to many situations today, however there is and was only one situation then at that time - which was the consuming destruction that would fall on the nation.

Those things applied psychally. There was a Law - they had to go to the temple, sacrifice, all of those things are not done today so how do they apply to us? Even the healings of that time by Jesus Christ, and the disciples.

What we read in the OT, in addition to direct prophecies, it often presents types or shadows for us living today if we are able see and understand them. God put more in the Bible than a man alone can fathom. How like unto God... or to Jesus ... can a person become? The limit is always in us rather than in God.

Many times people, I believe, cannot pray a prayer of faith which results in physical healing because they do not believe that they can. Man limits himself. The man in the following verses asked Jesus for help:

Mr 9:23	Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mr 9:24	And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Yes, confirmation bias exist. I never seen someone who was blind healed, and we have already talked about this. I believe the holy spirit can use gifted people to use their knowledge to be able to share that in faith God is a reality. Aside from faith - there would be no spiritual healings. Let alone then, a sign to show that God was among them, Jesus and his healings, and the disciples and their healings.

Too many Christians, including myself, have trusted so much in the ways of man to accomplish healing, that they often do not ask, and often do not believe and therefore they cannot invoke the direct available power of God.

Mr 10:26	And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
Mr 10:27	And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Yes, that is true. Each person is responsible for there walk with God alone.

When I mean churches though, I am talking about people who subject themselves to bible literalcy - in which they believe the bible does pertain to them in an objective way and not a subjective alternative. They need to perform everything in the Gospels and then some, cause otherwise Jesus is not coming. Those in the first century did do, already.

What would be required though? Having faith, or having more talents? Surely all of us have been beaten a few times by the punishments of quenching the spirit.

Quenching the Spirit, I believe, is the problem when healing is within God's will for the moment. Are some things really too hard for God, or have people limited God by their own lack of belief ?

Mt 17:16	And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
Mt 17:17	Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Mt 17:18	And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

I will stop here for the moment. We need to heed the following of Jesus as we read and study our Bibles:

Mt 6:33	But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mt 6:34	Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[MatthewG]

I guess, you are very adamant about it, I dont think it deals with lack of faith.

I believe it really does deal with the age and time we live in compared to there time they lived in.

If people were still healed today, like they were in the first century, Ama, they wouldnt need to go to the doctors my brother. You can quote scripture all you want.

@amadeus qouting scripture doesn't really matter... people would and should be still healing today, if the gifts for that was here...

I would like for someone to heal my eyes were I dont have to wear glasses anymore, and fix my teeth so they dont hurt anymore, and fix my knees so they dont hurt anymore.

but all some can say you only have little faith?

Brother we are meant to die. Signs of healing were to show that God was working miracles back then but if you dont believe that it happens now today, does that make a person less of a faithful christian?

Who has spiritual authority to deem such qualities like that? Not one person I know of, friend. It doesn't matter how many times you quote scripture.

 

[MatthewG]

@amadeus

1 Corinthians 13 1
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Listen to Paul and what he says, as you quote Jesus so much.

Even if you have faith you can move mountains, but have no love, he says he is nothing.

No matter if you give everything ot the poor, and surrender my body to flames, but have not love I gain nothing.

So is it so important to focus on healings - compared to the healing notion of love, that edifies and supports the soul of those who are hungry for the truth? That is what feeding flock is all about, and not feeding a flock FALSE HOPE!

The time of Age of what they lived in is over, unless you believer otherwise that is fine.

I do apologize for my passion on this subject, it just if faith could heal my mom eyes, and she didnt have to get cadaraic surgry, I would believe, that healings do happen today, but that all occurs by going to doctors, while the holy spirit restores the soul, and heals the mind/will/emotion.

 

[amadeus]

I guess, you are very adamant about it, I dont think it deals with lack of faith.

I believe it really does deal with the age and time we live in compared to there time they lived in.

If people were still healed today, like they were in the first century, Ama, they wouldnt need to go to the doctors my brother. You can quote scripture all you want.

@amadeus qouting scripture doesn't really matter... people would and should be still healing today, if the gifts for that was here...

I would like for someone to heal my eyes were I dont have to wear glasses anymore, and fix my teeth so they dont hurt anymore, and fix my knees so they dont hurt anymore.

but all some can say you only have little faith?

Brother we are meant to die. Signs of healing were to show that God was working miracles back then but if you dont believe that it happens now today, does that make a person less of a faithful christian?

Who has spiritual authority to deem such qualities like that? Not one person I know of, friend. It doesn't matter how many times you quote scripture.

I won't reply in depth again. The Bible does contain all we need, but we should not simply use it to support what we have decided is the truth. We need to allow the Holy Spirit to form and reform and adjust and eliminate and add from what we have consumed [read, heard, studied in the scripture] so that the whole picture keeps on moving from "as through a glass darkly", closer and closer to "face-to-face."

Ps 27:8

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus

1 Corinthians 13 1
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Listen to Paul and what he says, as you quote Jesus so much.

Even if you have faith you can move mountains, but have no love, he says he is nothing.

No matter if you give everything ot the poor, and surrender my body to flames, but have not love I gain nothing.

So is it so important to focus on healings - compared to the healing notion of love, that edifies and supports the soul of those who are hungry for the truth? That is what feeding flock is all about, and not feeding a flock FALSE HOPE!

The time of Age of what they lived in is over, unless you believer otherwise that is fine.

I do apologize for my passion on this subject, it just if faith could heal my mom eyes, and she didnt have to get cadaraic surgry, I would believe, that healings do happen today, but that all occurs by going to doctors, while the holy spirit restores the soul, and heals the mind/will/emotion.

Who among us is able to see the whole vision of men as God is able to see it?

Pr 29:18

Where there is no vision, the people perish:

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, thank you Amadues.

If you think I am making a mockery of everything you believe, you would be very wrong. Just so you know, as people would believe because of the things I believe, He must be crazy he is young, he doesn't know what he is talking about and so on and so forth.

All I know is God has made a revelation known by and through Revelation; to a HISTORICALLY known 7 churches of Asia Minor, but half or anyone believes that is completed yet, and that is totally dependent on individuals who go there, @amadeus.

If that book hasnt happened yet, then ya everything in the first century is still going on, SAtan, demons, healings and all that should be still going on. People believe those things are, I am someone who doesn't anymore due to Jesus and his victory.


The only healing I know of is of the heart man.

And God looks at the heart.... -.-

Its between you and him, and you believe what you do and that is all fine and great, but is it true? Everything should be tested.

 

[amadeus]

Okay, thank you Amadues.

If you think I am making a mockery of everything you believe, you would be very wrong. Just so you know, as people would believe because of the things I believe, He must be crazy he is young, he doesn't know what he is talking about and so on and so forth.

All I know is God has made a revelation known by and through Revelation; to a HISTORICALLY known 7 churches of Asia Minor, but half or anyone believes that is completed yet, and that is totally dependent on individuals who go there, @amadeus.

You are quite welcome Matthew. Remember also what the Book of Revelation says about overcomers as it is quite pertinent to our understanding of what God sees. What are we to overcome and how are we able to do it?

 

[MatthewG]

You are quite welcome Matthew. Remember also what the Book of Revelations says about overcomers as it is quite pertinent to our understanding of what God sees. What are we to overcome and how are we able to do it?

Flesh. Choosing to read the Bible, and let God renew you, by the Spiritual being reborn... Or looking to Faith in something far greater than yourself - and being humble before God.

... I think you are condsending me now; gonna walk away.

See Ya @amadeus and God speed.

 

[amadeus]

Flesh. Choosing to read the Bible, and let God renew you, by the Spiritual being reborn... Or looking to Faith in something far greater than yourself - and being humble before God.

... I think you are condsending me now; gonna walk away.

See Ya @amadeus and God speed.

I am not, but God speed to you as well, my friend.

 

[David in NJ]

I am not, but God speed to you as well, my friend.

Condensed milk is good for making smooth mashed potatoes.

Add in roasted garlic and you have a superb element to accent your dinner.

 

[MatthewG]

Me and my mom made, some cresent roll pizza with ham, cheesee and pepperoni today @David in NJ, what did you and your family have to eat?

 

[David in NJ]

Me and my mom made, some cresent roll pizza with ham, cheesee and pepperoni today @David in NJ, what did you and your family have to eat?

Nothing special today.
i am recuperating from pain that was a result of first time working since surgery.

My favorite meal is Thanksgiving Turkey with all the Works.