Tongues

[Hemlock]

Blind men describing the elephant.

 

[Triumph1300]

Though do be on guard , i have seen many who claim it , but get up and bark like dogs and walk around on leashes
and play the clown . YEAH that AINT THE SPIRIT at work at all . That is something entirely different . ANOTHER SPIRIT AT WORK .
And not a good one either .

Correct.
Evil Imitators.

 

[Triumph1300]

Blind men describing the elephant

Your first post on this forum.
Very short and no further inside why you posted this?

 

[Triumph1300]

Jaybird, did you read post 15?

 

[Hemlock]

Usually Cessationists are like blind men describing the elephant. One touches its tail and says "the elephant is like a rope", one touches its leg and says "the elephant is like a tree", etc.
These Cessationists fail to look at ALL references to tongues.
BTW, I am not really new - some glitch had me re-register - I was here as GRUNT HEMLOCK before.

 

[jaybird]

Your first post on this forum.
Very short and no further inside why you posted this?

i have no idea either what he is talking about.

Jaybird, did you read post 15?

yes i replied on #16, did i miss something?

 

[Pearl]

if its a real language then thats not the one i am talking about.

It certainly sound like a real language but I don't which one.

 

[friend of]

Whenever I've been around people who supposedly spoke in tongues, there was never an interpreter, even among those present. I believe tongues is still possible today, but I think most of the time it's inauthentic.

 

[amigo de christo]

Whenever I've been around people who supposedly spoke in tongues, there was never an interpreter, even among those present. I believe tongues is still possible today, but I think most of the time it's inauthentic.

Well that and also it means they are not being orderly in the church . Paul had this problem with the church of the corinthians
they too must have been many at once speaking with tongues . So he explained how it should be done in church .
BUT yeah there are also many who do things not of the Spirit at all .
However , be on gaurd . I would never say to just anyone who is speaking in tongues that its of another spirit .
however if they walking around howling like dogs and playing the clown , YEAH that sounds kundalini to me my friend .
The todd bentley crowd and etc , with the heard jerks and head shaking to and fro and talking about elephants and such .
Not looking good at all .

 

[Paul Christensen]

I believe that all those who lead a church fellowship should be baptized in the Holy Spirit. If they aren't how will they get the gifting, guidance and vision they need to lead the flocks.

I found an interesting sentence in my reading of John Calvin's commentary on John's Gospel. Note that he wrote this in the 17th Century. He was commenting on when Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit." He says that the Holy Spirit comes from Jesus and only Jesus. He said that a bishop breathing the Holy Spirit on priests during their ordination is pure nonsense. He said that the smelly breath of a bishop is not evidence that a person is called to ministry. It is the observation of the gifts of the Spirit manifest in his ministry.

I know that Calvin was a bit off beam with some of his thoughts about election and predestination, but he wrote a lot of good things too. He acknowledged that it is the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit that qualifies a pastor for ministry. If these gifts are absent, how can a person prove that he is actually called to Christian ministry?

Something to ponder on.

 

[Paul Christensen]

1Corinthians 12:29-30 (KJV):
29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Or as the TLV translates it:
29) All are not emissaries, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All do not work miracles, do they?
30) All do not have gifts of healing, do they? All do not speak in tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

I guess the quote is just another way for modernist religious people to say that no one speaks in tongues at all.

 

[Triumph1300]

yes i replied on #16, did i miss something?

Yes, I saw no. 16, and your reaction made me think you missed reading 15.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I believe that all those who lead a church fellowship should be baptized in the Holy Spirit. If they aren't how will they get the gifting, guidance and vision they need to lead the flocks.

Believing the Gospel and receiving Christ gets the person saved. No doubt about that. But in order to become sanctified and grow in grace, one needs the baptism with the Spirit, because it is the Holy Spirit alone who can achieve it, and one must have the indwelling and be filled with the Spirit in order to receive the ability to ditch the works of the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

The gifts are separate and are the "tools" of the Spirit for those who are called to ministry, and are the evidence of that call. This is why not all prophesy or speak in tongues, because their use in the church is for those called to ministry in the church.

(of course speaking in tongues in church is different from praying privately in tongues to God, but I am not going to get into that debate on this thread).

 

[Triumph1300]

He acknowledged that it is the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit that qualifies a pastor for ministry. If these gifts are absent, how can a person prove that he is actually called to Christian ministry?

Yes, he was right on about that.
And yes, a priest cannot give the gift of the spirit, only the Lord can.

 

[Paul Christensen]

if someone spoke in a language i never heard before, it might sound like babbling. the acts passage doesnt say they were babbling in an unknown language, it says they were speaking in the language of the nations. the ones that did not believe that mocked them, it doesnt say they mocked them because they were babbling in unknown languages.

now if you think tongues is some prayer language, please explain why anyone would need a spirit language to speak to the Most High?

and the bible never calls it a spirit prayer language, it says angel language. Paul was IMO being metaphoric here, but lets say he really meant a literal angel language. why would we need that. were the apostles being sent to preach the gospel to angels? do the angels not understand our common language, do angels not know how to speak in our languages? that would make them pretty bad messengers. not to mention we have a multitude of examples of angels interacting with other people throughout the bible, they never spoke in an unknown language where an angel language interpreter was needed.

Try reading the Bible properly instead of basing nonsense opinions on random out-of-context verses. Give a close reading and study of all the verses in 1 Corinthians 14 and see what Paul actually says about tongues in his personal prayer life and in church. "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all, but rather in the church...etc." Even a 10 year old in elementary school can comprehend that Paul speaks in tongues away from church services, but when he is in church he speaks that all can understand and be built up.

Prejudice against modern tongues cancels out simple intelligent comprehension 101 and the rules of Biblical exegesis and hermeneutics.

 

[Paul Christensen]

if its a real language then thats not the one i am talking about.

I have a close friend who was "babbling" in tongues in a prayer meeting at the church I went to in the 1970s. A Ghanaian visitor stopped the prayer meeting and told my friends what he was saying in his own village dialect! My friend had never been Ghana, let alone to that particular village. He was just "babbling" away in tongues like most Pentecostals do. I had the same experience when I was quietly interceding in tongues for people being ministered at the front of the church. A NZ Maori lady said to me that I was speaking encouraging things to her in her native language. I had no idea that I was speaking the Maori language. I was just praying in tongues, "babbling" as you call it.

Those real-life experiences makes everything you are saying about tongues just pure nonsense from someone who is totally ignorant of that particular "tool" of the Holy Spirit and what it is used for.

 

[jaybird]

Try reading the Bible properly instead of basing nonsense opinions on random out-of-context verses. Give a close reading and study of all the verses in 1 Corinthians 14 and see what Paul actually says about tongues in his personal prayer life and in church. "I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all, but rather in the church...etc." Even a 10 year old in elementary school can comprehend that Paul speaks in tongues away from church services, but when he is in church he speaks that all can understand and be built up.

Prejudice against modern tongues cancels out simple intelligent comprehension 101 and the rules of Biblical exegesis and hermeneutics.

one thing Paul does not say in 1 Cor 14 is that he is speaking a spirit language. your inserting your own wishful thinking into the text.

rather than just call me a dummy and make wild claims that i just dont know how to read, why dont you put your money where your mouth is and prove me wrong.
speaking in tongues inside a church or outside a church really has nothing to do with what i said so i have no idea what your going on about with that one.

lets go back to this one:

now if you think tongues is some prayer language, please explain why anyone would need a spirit language to speak to the Most High?

same question to you, do you have an answer or just gonna call me names?

 

[Paul Christensen]

if someone spoke in a language i never heard before, it might sound like babbling. the acts passage doesnt say they were babbling in an unknown language, it says they were speaking in the language of the nations. the ones that did not believe that mocked them, it doesnt say they mocked them because they were babbling in unknown languages.

now if you think tongues is some prayer language, please explain why anyone would need a spirit language to speak to the Most High?

and the bible never calls it a spirit prayer language, it says angel language. Paul was IMO being metaphoric here, but lets say he really meant a literal angel language. why would we need that. were the apostles being sent to preach the gospel to angels? do the angels not understand our common language, do angels not know how to speak in our languages? that would make them pretty bad messengers. not to mention we have a multitude of examples of angels interacting with other people throughout the bible, they never spoke in an unknown language where an angel language interpreter was needed.

So how do you continue to intercede for someone in need when you run out of natural language to express your burden for them? Then again, maybe you never receive a burden of intercession for anyone, and are pretty well content with a short prayer and leave it at that.

 

[jaybird]

I have a close friend who was "babbling" in tongues in a prayer meeting at the church I went to in the 1970s. A Ghanaian visitor stopped the prayer meeting and told my friends what he was saying in his own village dialect! My friend had never been Ghana, let alone to that particular village. He was just "babbling" away in tongues like most Pentecostals do. I had the same experience when I was quietly interceding in tongues for people being ministered at the front of the church. A NZ Maori lady said to me that I was speaking encouraging things to her in her native language. I had no idea that I was speaking the Maori language. I was just praying in tongues, "babbling" as you call it.

Those real-life experiences makes everything you are saying about tongues just pure nonsense from someone who is totally ignorant of that particular "tool" of the Holy Spirit and what it is used for.

im not talking about real languages, Ghana is a real place, im only talking about the spirit / angel language, the one that can not be tested and confirmed.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have a close friend who was "babbling" in tongues in a prayer meeting at the church I went to in the 1970s. A Ghanaian visitor stopped the prayer meeting and told my friends what he was saying in his own village dialect! My friend had never been Ghana, let alone to that particular village. He was just "babbling" away in tongues like most Pentecostals do. I had the same experience when I was quietly interceding in tongues for people being ministered at the front of the church. A NZ Maori lady said to me that I was speaking encouraging things to her in her native language. I had no idea that I was speaking the Maori language. I was just praying in tongues, "babbling" as you call it.

Those real-life experiences makes everything you are saying about tongues just pure nonsense from someone who is totally ignorant of that particular "tool" of the Holy Spirit and what it is used for.

As you know from my book, their understanding was not necessarily that you were speaking their language, but that they understood supernaturally by the gift of interpretation of tongues. They HEARD their own language. There was a girl in Arizona that understood the "babbling," but as English, when every other person of our language just heard tongues.

What that does prove is that you were not speaking fake tongues, but the bonifide gift of speaking in tongues by the Spirit. You could have been speaking a tongue of an angel, or even an extinct language of man. It doesn't have to be a modern language as God is the creator of every language and understands them all.

cc: @jaybird