Tongues

[NayborBear]

I find that to be true, almost like you're prophesying to yourself.

Paul didn't "see" at it as prophesying to oneself though, did he? Not even as "almost."
What this does? Is cause someone in becoming "(selfishly)righteous" in their own eyes.
And what happens to a whole assemblage of believers that are righteous in their own eyes?
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

And, there is no one "edifying" the Church!

And it's not that I'm against speaking of tongues, because I'm not.
I've just not experienced this "edifying of the Church" in any "assembly" I've either attended, or have seen on TV.

 

[Pearl]

Paul didn't "see" at it as prophesying to oneself though, did he? Not even as "almost."
What this does? Is cause someone in becoming "(selfishly)righteous" in their own eyes.
And what happens to a whole assemblage of believers that are righteous in their own eyes?
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

And, there is no one "edifying" the Church!

And it's not that I'm against speaking of tongues, because I'm not.
I've just not experienced this "edifying of the Church" in any "assembly" I've either attended, or have seen on TV.

My very first experience of speaking in tongues, or rather singing, turned out to be a personal prophecy.

 

[NayborBear]

They themselves were the interpreter. Each HEARD them speaking in tongues but HEARD their own language.

If this were the case, and I'm not saying that it isn't?
Then, why in todays churches, where speaking in tongues occurs, are there none of these Hearing this language understanding that which is being said!
Is everyone in that assembly of believers an unbeliever to everyone else?
What about the pastor, or leader who is speaking in tongues, and those in attendance don't "hear" his/her "language?"

Is the "spirit of antichrist" THAT prevalent in today's churches?

 

[CharismaticLady]

If this were the case, and I'm not saying that it isn't?
Then, why in todays churches, where speaking in tongues occurs, are there none of these Hearing this language understanding that which is being said!
Is everyone in that assembly of believers an unbeliever to everyone else?
What about the pastor, or leader who is speaking in tongues, and those in attendance don't "hear" his/her "language?"

Is the "spirit of antichrist" THAT prevalent in today's churches?

They are.

Don't you think the "spirit of antichrist" would speak against gifts of the Spirit, and anything else in the Bible?

 

[NayborBear]

They are.

Don't you think the "spirit of antichrist" would speak against gifts of the Spirit, and anything else in the Bible?

The word anti, means more then "merely" against!
In its (spirit of anti christ) more seductive/deceptive/cunningly slyer modus operendi's?
Anti also means "instead of!"
It is this instead of that runs very deep, not only in "the world."
But, more importantly, and sadder? In the hearts, minds and the meaning of words of the believers.
Recent example: Instead of remembering the angel of death "passing over" those door posts of those folks in Egypt?
Let's remember Jesus' resurrection by coloring eggs, and giving away chocolate bunnies which (knowingly, or not) glorifies that goddess of fertility instead of Jesus Christ of Nazareth!

 

[Mayflower]

I guess mine are Hebrew. I learned this recently. Been picking out a lot of words from it. Pretty cool/encouraging

 

[Triumph1300]

The gifts of the spirit were to diminish as the faith increased. With the death of the apostles, most gifts such as tongues and healing no longer occurred.

Who said so?

 

[CharismaticLady]

The word anti, means more then "merely" against!
In its (spirit of anti christ) more seductive/deceptive/cunningly slyer modus operendi's?
Anti also means "instead of!"
It is this instead of that runs very deep, not only in "the world."
But, more importantly, and sadder? In the hearts, minds and the meaning of words of the believers.
Recent example: Instead of remembering the angel of death "passing over" those door posts of those folks in Egypt?
Let's remember Jesus' resurrection by coloring eggs, and giving away chocolate bunnies which (knowingly, or not) glorifies that goddess of fertility instead of Jesus Christ of Nazareth!

The church I had to stop going to had Easter egg hunts for the kids. That really bothers me. But Christmas trees don't bother me at all. And both originated from the same false god. It all has to do with what I, personally, associate with them. Easter eggs mean Tammuz to me, whereas a lighted Christmas tree makes me think of the Light of the World, Jesus.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I must have missed it. If Calvin said that about the gifts of the Spirit, why are so many Calvinists Cessationists.

Good night, my friend.

I can't answer that question. I am finding during my reading of Calvin's commentary on John's Gospel that he says some very interesting and insightful things that directly apply to us today. To be fair, he doesn't come across as Cessationist as some of his followers do. However, when I finish John's Gospel, I will read his commentary on 1 Corinthians. I will find it intereresting to see what he says about 1 Corinthians 12 and 14.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Ok but you didn't listen to what I told you before, I explained how one can fake this and there is no way to test it. Fake, real, either way sounds the exact same to the non tongue people. This is the exact opposite of any other gift from the Most High which could never in a million years be faked.
If you can't prove which is real then anyone that can talk can speak in the angel language.
And of all the gifts which ones are being done by everyone, the one that can easily be faked, the one that can not be proved. Sorry but that's a pretty big red flag.
Can you imagine Jesus going out, making divine claims, and not being able to prove any of them. But unlike tongues, Jesus backed up everything He did.

But Paul backed tongues up in a whole chapter of the Bible. And he said, "Follow me as I follow Christ". Paul's epistles are seen as inspired Holy Scripture, directly inspired by the Holy Spirit whom Jesus sent to the church to continue His presence. Therefore, Paul's writing is directly inspired by Jesus Himself, and that includes 1 Corinthians 14 - everu single word of it - including the bits you choose to ignore.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It seems with all this "speaking in tongues" conversatings, what's being "overlooked" either knowingly willing, or by a lack of Spiritual maturity is this:
1 Corinthians 14:
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself (selfishly?); but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I don't think Paul means that a person is selfish. Jude instructs believers to "build yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Spirit." There is a difference between building oneself up in their most holy faith by praying in tongues, and puffing themselves up in selfish pride thinking they know better about the things of God than everyone else.

Also, the question about where Paul prayed in tongues, if not in the church as he instructed the Corinthians when he said, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all" and then he says "Yet in the church" which clearly indicates that he prays in tongues apart from church services. Also, he says, "I would that you all spoke in tongues", but where? Not in the church, because if that was so, he would contradict his own instructions. And we know that Holy Spirit inspired Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

So, if you are going to limit tongues to church services, and link it with interpretation of tongues, and nowhere else, you are saying that Paul spoke with tongues in church services along with all the others, making him a hypocrite, instructing others not to do something he does himself.

The only answer to the question by people who actually use their logical sense is to see that Paul does all his praying in tongues away from the public church services. Of course, I just use Grade 5 comprehension 101 because I don't have any prejudice against tongues that would turn my brain off.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes! If you don't know how to pray and then pray in your [spiritual' language or tongue you will often find that when you have finished and you start praying in English the words that come out of your mouth are not what you regularly use and you find yourself being amazed by what you are saying. And then when the prayer is over you can't remember what you said. This is a form of interpretation.

I find that when I have a need to pray concerning an issue, and I can't find the words, I pray in tongues. After a short while, I am able to find the right words, and Scripture verses to continue praying in English. It is as if praying with the Spirit, releases a freedom of expression in English to convey to God what is on my heart.

And I find that praying in tongues really does build up my faith in Christ, and often, the exact Scripture comes to mind that fits the issue or question that I am seeking the Lord about. The miracle is that I have never memorized Scripture, and sometimes verses come to me that I haven't thought about for many years and could never have memorized. Once, I got the chapter and verse reference mpressed on my mind, and when I opened my Bible and read the verse, I was amazed at how exact it was for what I needed to know.

 

[Pearl]

I find that when I have a need to pray concerning an issue, and I can't find the words, I pray in tongues. After a short while, I am able to find the right words, and Scripture verses to continue praying in English. It is as if praying with the Spirit, releases a freedom of expression in English to convey to God what is on my heart.

And I find that praying in tongues really does build up my faith in Christ, and often, the exact Scripture comes to mind that fits the issue or question that I am seeking the Lord about. The miracle is that I have never memorized Scripture, and sometimes verses come to me that I haven't thought about for many years and could never have memorized. Once, I got the chapter and verse reference mpressed on my mind, and when I opened my Bible and read the verse, I was amazed at how exact it was for what I needed to know.

Sounds a lot like my own experiences.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I find that to be true, almost like you're prophesying to yourself.

The prophetic is not limited to prediction of the future or guidance. Every time we open the Bible and read it, we are reading a prophetic document. Every time we pray, and a verse or passage of Scripture comes to mind that gives greater insight concerning the issue, that is prophetic. The basis of the prophetic is the Holy Spirit speaking to us, confirming and building up our faith in Christ.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is designed that way. It is a peculiar gift, none other like it. It is the only sign gift that is the same type of sign that Jesus, Himself, was. Did you know that Jesus was a sign? Luke 2:34 calls Him "a sign which will be spoken against." Jesus was for "the fall and rising of many in Israel." IOW it is a double edged sign, having both a negative and positive side to it depending on who is responding. The disciples rose, while most of the Pharisees fell and wanted Him dead. And these signs are the only ones that reveal the secrets of the heart by the response they generate.

Jesus - Luke 2:35 "that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”
Tongues -1 Cor. 14:25 "thus the secrets of his heart are revealed."

In 1 Corinthians 14:22 we see that "tongues are for a sign to the unbeliever." Without meaning to, there are so many Christians that see that and immediately think of the Day of Pentecost when the devout Jews turned to Christ after each heard the disciples speak in tongues, and erroneously believe it only means that tongues is a positive sign, even going so far as it was for preaching the gospel. But it is double edged. Remember there were others who mocked and said they were drunk. Verse 22 is showing the negative side to tongues, and verse 23 confirms it that if ALL were speaking in tongues and an unbeliever came in and saw them, they would say they were crazy. Today, the mockers use the words "gibberish" or "babble." So it confirms them in their unbelief, and reveals their hearts.

That is why Paul made restrictions inside the church, that only 2 or 3 speak in "gibberish" and immediately is interpreted. And if the interpreter is not there, then no one is to stand up and speak forth a message from God in just tongues. Because no man understands them. 1 Cor. 14:2

So it really doesn't matter that you can't test tongues. They are bonafide gifts of the Holy Spirit, so you can either accept their existence with the faith of a child, or speak against them. The test is actually about us, not them.

It is tongues along with interpretation of tongues that is the sign for the unbeliever. Paul quotes Isaiah when the latter says that the sign to Israel of impending judgment is the stammering speech of foreign invaders. Paul links it with tongues, that when unbelievers come into a church service and they hear the "babbling" of a foreign sounding language, followed by a prophetic interpretation, they are convicted of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come, and as Paul says, the power of the prophetic utterance is that they fall on their faces and confess that God is really among the Christians in that church.

Of course, that was in the first century when the Holy Spirit was moving in the churches. In all of my years in Pentecostal meetings where people have prophesied, I have never seen any events where unbelievers have fallen on their faces and declared that God is really among us. I wonder why? Perhaps, for some reason, the convicting power of the Holy Spirit does not accompany modern prophecy...

 

[Paul Christensen]

The key lies in the reason why speaking in tongues originated sir, to spread the gospel. The gifts of the spirit were to diminish as the faith increased. With the death of the apostles, most gifts such as tongues and healing no longer occurred. Before the end Christians were cautioned not to use it without an interpreter. With the good news reaching the ends of the earth today, most likely God is not using them anymore to spread His message.

"Voting out" the gift of tongues from AOG services is the height of religious arrogance. These people think they can "vote out" the Holy Spirit? Who do they think they are? No wonder there is an invasion of the occult, Hindu mind control and other spurious teaching and manifestation in their meetings. If they have "voted out" the Holy Spirit, the devil is "voting in" his counterfeits and turning the Penteostal movement into something he feels quite comfortable with. There are large branches of the movement that no longer preach the true Gospel that glorifies Christ and encourages people to have faith in His finished work on the Cross. It seems that Kenny Copeland's brand has taken over the Charismatic movement. It is true that when churches turn away from the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit and His gifts and depend on worldly business practices, music, and man's wisdom messages, the devil comes in with His counterfeit teaching, prophecies, babbling tongues and kundalini manifestations (jerking, shaking, uncontrolled laughing, and falling backwards).

If you want to find where the real power of the Holy Spirit is, find a small, out of the way, group of faithful believers, who celebrate the finished work of Christ on the Cross, who welcome the gifts of the Spirit into their meetings. You won't see their meetings on Youtube, or in a stadium or mega-church building. They may be meeting in a small school hall, or someone's home, because they are more concerned about their church being a fellowship centre than a religious "temple" or organisation.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The key lies in the reason why speaking in tongues originated sir, to spread the gospel. The gifts of the spirit were to diminish as the faith increased. With the death of the apostles, most gifts such as tongues and healing no longer occurred. Before the end Christians were cautioned not to use it without an interpreter. With the good news reaching the ends of the earth today, most likely God is not using them anymore to spread His message.

Where does the Book of Acts say that? What caused 3000 to be converted to Christ on the day of Pentecost was Paul preaching in his learned language, not in tongues. When the disciples spoke in tongues, they spoke of the mighty works of God, not preaching the Gospel to the crowd.

It is amazing how some turn their brains off and read stuff into the Bible that is not even there. It is similar to what the Lord said to Jeremiah about the false prophets dreaming stuff out of their own minds and presenting the dreamed-up lies as God's word for the people.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Paul didn't "see" at it as prophesying to oneself though, did he? Not even as "almost."
What this does? Is cause someone in becoming "(selfishly)righteous" in their own eyes.
And what happens to a whole assemblage of believers that are righteous in their own eyes?
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

And, there is no one "edifying" the Church!

And it's not that I'm against speaking of tongues, because I'm not.
I've just not experienced this "edifying of the Church" in any "assembly" I've either attended, or have seen on TV.

Paul says that it is prophecy that edifies the church. Of course, everything that is said in a church service, when the Holy Spirit is leading the service, is prophetic. The problem is that most church services are "man-led" where the Holy Spirit is left out and expected to "bless" man's programming, which He doesn't on most occasions. Therefore what is most said in church services is just man's wisdom, and therefore goes more to puff people up than to build them up in Christ. The evidence for this is when people say, "Oh, the pastor preached a fine sermon this morning. He is a real man of God!" A godly preacher who preaches Christ in the Spirit would cause people to remark, "What a wonderful Saviour we have!" So, how many people have you heard saing that after the pastor's message in church? None, I'll bet!

 

[Paul Christensen]

If this were the case, and I'm not saying that it isn't?
Then, why in todays churches, where speaking in tongues occurs, are there none of these Hearing this language understanding that which is being said!
Is everyone in that assembly of believers an unbeliever to everyone else?
What about the pastor, or leader who is speaking in tongues, and those in attendance don't "hear" his/her "language?"

Is the "spirit of antichrist" THAT prevalent in today's churches?

If people are speaking in tongues in a public meeting without interpretation, they are going against God's Word in 1 Corinthians 14. Therefore, because the Holy Spirit will never support anything that goes against the Word that He himself inspired, you can draw the obvious conclusion about the tongues being spoken. But two or three people speaking out in tongues and the tongues being interpreted, is according to God's Word and can have a very powerful effect in the Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I can't answer that question. I am finding during my reading of Calvin's commentary on John's Gospel that he says some very interesting and insightful things that directly apply to us today. To be fair, he doesn't come across as Cessationist as some of his followers do. However, when I finish John's Gospel, I will read his commentary on 1 Corinthians. I will find it intereresting to see what he says about 1 Corinthians 12 and 14.

And 13!