Tongues

[Truman]

I remember my first night at a Vineyard church. A guy that I thought was a janitor talked. Calmly. We went up for prayer. The leaders were calm. They didn't raise their voices. They would finish praying for one person and then move to the next.
They were completely sane.
We were asked to not focus on the manifestations, but to focus on Jesus.
It was like a cold front and a hot front collided! It was real. It was powerful. It was God.

 

[Truman]

I would love to see the Holy Spirit fall on the old ladies in my church. That would scatter the bats in the belfry -- if we had one!

I bet you they would love it! Old ladies always surprise me!
I'm guess I'm kinda old too. SMH

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I actually had to apologize for that one Amadeus... because apparently I was not aware that Paul exhorted all believers to speak in tongues... so... MY BAD.... LOL

Of course Paul exhorted others to speak in tongues.....he also made it VERY clear that one could speak in tongues until the cows came home and it didn’t amount to a hill of beans if you didn’t have another Gift Of The Holy Spirit which was LOVE......why not concentrate on things that really matter as opposed to finding a way you can be a “ Spiritual Show- Off” and show the crowd how “superior” you are to the mere rank-and-File Believer......

I am not saying that this is the case all of the time.....

Here is something I’m not hearing about very much.....Paul said that if you speak in tongues there MUST be an interpreter present ....in other words , it is a Sin to speak in tongues if nobody is around to explain what was said....” The Speaker should keep quiet “ ......in other words—- “ Shut Up!” .....This Holy Gift was never given to anybody to try to be a Big Shot in the local Church.... I believe their is WAY too much if that stuff going on.....

As usual, Addy was on the Right Track.....no need to apologize to anybody....

 

[Curtis]

Got any Chapter and Verse for this Hog Wash?

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

The Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands - then, and now.

 

[Truman]

Paul said that he wanted to pray in tongues more than anyone, tongues is very useful, but BB is right.
There must be an interpreter and love is ultimate!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The post was humor.
And as far as Hollywood....what do expect from laymen?

The only thing WORSE than the movies (and I think a few of them get some things right) are the boring, secular “ takes” that are puked out by the History Channel and Discovery Channels....All Miracles are Explained away and they are dryer than a camel’s foot.....You just can’t undertake a “ biography” on the Lord of the Universe as if you were doing a bio on Boy George or Pee Wee Herman....they need to stick to what they can understand which turns out to be nothing of any significance....

 

[Curtis]

in John Calvin's commentary on the book of Acts, in his comments about the falling of the Holy Spirit on the household of Cornelius, he spoke about them speaking in tongues. He says that the tongues did cease, and the reason was that many were using tongues as an ostentatious display, and therefore God removed them from the church to ensure that the work of the Holy Spirit was not discredited. Through the events that I had read about, and the events that happened in my own church (witnessed by over 20 people), it is clear that God restored that facility to the church. But, as it was with the Corinthians, many ultra-charismatics are using tongues as the same "ostentatious display" that Calvin described as the reason why tongues disappeared from the church after the 4th Century. It appears that the misuse of tongues caused the speakers to be ridiculed to the point that many good people chose to avoid receiving it, and so the gift died out. The same thing is happening today. Because of the public misuse of tongues, coupled with jerking, shaking, falling backwards, uncontrolled laughing and rolling around the floor, those who do those things are being ridiculed, and good believers are avoiding tongues because they don't want to be caught up with the kundalini stuff as well.

I predict that tongues will die out in exactly the same way as it did after the 4th Century, and in another 40 years, speaking in tongues will largely become extinct. It won't be that God has removed it from the church, but that successive generations are turning away from it and being content with saying they are filled with the Holy Spirit without choosing to pray in tongues.

Peter said on Pentecost that the gift of the Holy Spirit they and the 120 gathered in the upper room had just received, is available to AS MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL in Acts 2:38-39.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost.


Act 2:39 For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.


There’s the expiration date on the same spiritual gift given on Pentecost: when Jesus returns, and when God no longer is calling anyone.

Also, Paul imparted the GIFT of CHARISMA to the church at Corinth, to have while they awaited the second coming of Jesus.


There’s the expiration date of spiritual gifts: when Jesus returns and they are no longer needed.


1Co 1:6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

1Co 1:7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:


The word GIFT there is charisma, where the word charismatic comes from.

The spiritual gifts are in effect until Jesus returns.

 

[Curtis]

Of course Paul exhorted others to speak in tongues.....he also made it VERY clear that one could speak in tongues until the cows came home and it didn’t amount to a hill of beans if you didn’t have another Gift Of The Holy Spirit which was LOVE......why not concentrate on things that really matter as opposed to finding a way you can be a “ Spiritual Show- Off” and show the crowd how “superior” you are to the mere rank-and-File Believer......

I am not saying that this is the case all of the time.....

Here is something I’m not hearing about very much.....Paul said that if you speak in tongues there MUST be an interpreter present ....in other words , it is a Sin to speak in tongues if nobody is around to explain what was said....” The Speaker should keep quiet “ ......in other words—- “ Shut Up!” .....This Holy Gift was never given to anybody to try to be a Big Shot in the local Church.... I believe their is WAY too much if that stuff going on.....

As usual, Addy was on the Right Track.....no need to apologize to anybody....

Tongues spoken aloud in church services should be interpreted because they’re a message to the congregation - speaking quietly in tongues in church or at home have no such requirement of being interpreted.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Got any Chapter and Verse for this Hog Wash?

He said “ filled with the Holy Spirit”—- NOT the ability to speak in tongues.....that was what I was responding to...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

The Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands - then, and now.

Just because it came about this way once, does NOT mean that it has to unfold this way EVERY time ....to insist that it DOES is simply Silly and more importantly—- UNBIBLICAL!

 

[Curtis]

Just because it came about this way once, does NOT mean that it has to unfold this way EVERY time ....to insist that it DOES is simply Silly and more importantly—- UNBIBLICAL!

Two different accounts. In account 1 it is seen that the Holy Ghost is given by the laying on of hands.
That’s a principle, not a one time occurrence.

Paul in account 2 confirms how believers receive the Holy Spirit.

Everyone who’s saved receives a measure of the Holy Spirit, yet receiving the fullness of the Holy Spirit is received by a spirit filled believer laying hands on them.

When that happens there’s no doubt whatsoever about being filled with the Holy Ghost and Dunamis power, but you wouldn’t know anything about that as a cessationist.

 

[Heart2Soul]

He said “ filled with the Holy Spirit”—- NOT the ability to speak in tongues.....that was what I was responding to...

Remember how God confused the language of the people in Babylon and dispersed them?
On the Day of Pentecost the opposite thing took place...everyone spoke a new tongue...language.
Acts 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³ And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
⁴ And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

…
⁷ And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
⁸ And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
⁹ Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
¹⁰ Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
¹¹ Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
¹² And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
¹³ Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

 

[Curtis]

Remember how God confused the language of the people in Babylon and dispersed them?
On the Day of Pentecost the opposite thing took place...everyone spoke a new tongue...language.
Acts 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³ And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
⁴ And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

…
⁷ And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
⁸ And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
⁹ Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
¹⁰ Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
¹¹ Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
¹² And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
¹³ Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

All through the New Testament speaking in tongues was the evidence they’d received the Holy Spirit, starting with Pentecost.

On the Day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit fell upon the assembled believers and "all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues" (Acts 2:4). Later, as Peter was preaching at the house of Cornelius, "the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message" and they were "speaking in tongues and praising God" (Acts 10:44, 46). Again, as the apostle Paul was ministering to the Ephesian disciples, "the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied" (Acts 19:6). It is evident also that Paul himself was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17) and spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18). These Scriptures clearly show that speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

All through the New Testament speaking in tongues was the evidence they’d received the Holy Spirit, starting with Pentecost.

On the Day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit fell upon the assembled believers and "all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues" (Acts 2:4). Later, as Peter was preaching at the house of Cornelius, "the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message" and they were "speaking in tongues and praising God" (Acts 10:44, 46). Again, as the apostle Paul was ministering to the Ephesian disciples, "the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied" (Acts 19:6). It is evident also that Paul himself was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17) and spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18). These Scriptures clearly show that speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Speaking in tongues was God's sign to the apostles that the Gentiles are included in his household. Once this doctrine was established, the sign of tongues was no longer necessary or "normal".

 

[Curtis]

Speaking in tongues was God's sign to the apostles that the Gentiles are included in his household. Once this doctrine was established, the sign of tongues was no longer necessary or "normal".

Absolutely wrong.

 

[TEXBOW]

Peter said on Pentecost that the gift of the Holy Spirit they and the 120 gathered in the upper room had just received, is available to AS MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL in Acts 2:38-39.

Curtis, I agree with the vast majority of what you're saying But the tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost were known languages, not a prayer language. It clearly tells us that those gathered were marveled at those speaking in their native tongue. In short, it didn't take another Saint to interpret only someone from the region that tongue was spoken in.

I think those of us who stand firm in our understanding that the gifts of the Spirit are active today (have not ceased) need to do a better job of understanding when tongues are referring to a different language for the purpose of preaching the word. An example would be the Apostle Paul preaching to those in Spain who do not understand Greek. I think the Holy Spirit gave Apostles the gift to share the word with those who spoke a different language. The Jewish Apostles would certainly need the ability to spread the word in areas of different languages. I also believe that we can have a prayer language.

For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. ... He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Prophesies in Greek can be interpreted as our English word Preach.

I think it's important to understand that our prayer language (tongue) is not from God but to God.

Careful study of the scriptures gives us the ability to differentiate between prayer language and foreign languages of men.

 

[Heart2Soul]

All through the New Testament speaking in tongues was the evidence they’d received the Holy Spirit, starting with Pentecost.

On the Day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit fell upon the assembled believers and "all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues" (Acts 2:4). Later, as Peter was preaching at the house of Cornelius, "the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message" and they were "speaking in tongues and praising God" (Acts 10:44, 46). Again, as the apostle Paul was ministering to the Ephesian disciples, "the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied" (Acts 19:6). It is evident also that Paul himself was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17) and spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:18). These Scriptures clearly show that speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

That's what I said...I didn't and don't dispute it.

 

[TEXBOW]

Coming of the Holy Spirit Acts 2
2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The Crowd’s Response
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

It is very clear here that the tongues in verse 4 are languages from different parts of the known world at that time. "we hear them speaking in our own tongues"

Peter’s Sermon
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’

So, Peter is saying that Joel spoke of this type of manifestation of the Spirit. What a great gift from the Holy Spirit, the ability to spread the word of God to people in their native language. Pentecost was not like anything we see in charasamatic churches. Maybe I've missed it but I've never seen a body of belivers filled with the Spirit start talking in other languages. I have seen them speak a utterance that cannot be understood. The very thing Paul rebuked. When Joel in verse 18 says that God will pour out his Spirit and they will prophesy I understand that to say " the Holy Spirit will give them the ability to preach"

Strong's Concordance
prophéteia: prophecy
Original Word: προφητεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: prophéteia
Phonetic Spelling: (prof-ay-ti'-ah)
Definition: prophecy
Usage: prophecy, prophesying; the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.

I believe Christians confuse, intermix, the message of tongues in Pauls epistles. It's not always talking about a prayer language. I do believe their is a prayer language for believers available today for those who seek it. The scriptures make it clear that our prayer language is TO GOD not from God.

1 Corinithians 14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

The Holy Spirit does not have limitations. The gifts of the Spirit are available today. I believe that when a person speaks an unknown utterance and someone else in the Church follows that with a message we should consider that it may not be an interpetation of the unknown utterance just heard but prophesy, the gift of communicating reveled truth as Joel mentions. Theologians have been trying to parse Tongues Unknown from Tongues Language within the scriptures for decades. Pentecost is clearly talking about language. The scriptures tell us that point blank.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I believe Christians confuse, intermix, the message of tongues in Pauls epistles. It's not always talking about a prayer language. I do believe their is a prayer language for believers available today for those who seek it. The scriptures make it clear that our prayer language is TO GOD not from God.

Precious friend, IF God DOESN'T Hear me when I pray in my OWN language, then
I Must Be In Big Trouble, eh?

 

[Truman]

Oh yeah...well...e-everyone who disagrees with me...can go...go suck a lemon! Lol
At least you don't have to tell people that you were hit in the chest by a tongue of fire! Lol
I tell ya, it's tuff bein' me! I need all the help I can get!!!


TELL US SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW, TRUMAN!