Tongues

[TEXBOW]

Precious friend, IF God DOESN'T Hear me when I pray in my OWN language, then
I Must Be In Big Trouble, eh?

We would all be in big trouble. I trust you understand that I've not said that a prayer language is the only method of prayer. You can pray in your language , your mind without speaking a word and a prayer language.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Absolutely wrong.

Easy to say. Hard to prove. All we need to do is review each passage in Acts where tongues are spoken by someone else other than the apostles, to see that God was giving the apostles positive proof that Gentiles are included in the household of God. What is the first mention of tongues in Acts after chapter 2? Acts 10:46 The household of Cornelius. Next, Acts 19:6 The disciples in Ephesus.

By the way, the only epistle where tongue are mentioned is 1 Corinthians, and Paul is critical of how these folks were doing it.

 

[rockytopva]

Tongues are welcome in our church. Normally there is a pause after the message and a wait for an interpretation. If no interpretation was given the service will move on and it will be thought that there was no one there with the gift of interpretation. If there is an interpretation it is normally something that has held me in awe. I would rather the service moves on rather than something that is obviously Flesh and not Spirit…

 

[Paul Christensen]

Speaking in tongues was God's sign to the apostles that the Gentiles are included in his household. Once this doctrine was established, the sign of tongues was no longer necessary or "normal".

Where does it say that in the pages of the New Testament? Or are you just adding your own opinion to God's Word?

 

[Truman]

Tongues are welcome in our church. Normally there is a pause after the message and a wait for an interpretation. If no interpretation was given the service will move on and it will be thought that there was no one there with the gift of interpretation. If there is an interpretation it is normally something that has held me in awe. I would rather the service moves on rather than something that is obviously Flesh and not Spirit…

Ohhh...I feel the joy and the heat. Love it! Wish I could go to your church, man! Love the tunage!

 

[Curtis]

Easy to say. Hard to prove. All we need to do is review each passage in Acts where tongues are spoken by someone else other than the apostles, to see that God was giving the apostles positive proof that Gentiles are included in the household of God. What is the first mention of tongues in Acts after chapter 2? Acts 10:46 The household of Cornelius. Next, Acts 19:6 The disciples in Ephesus.



By the way, the only epistle where tongue are mentioned is 1 Corinthians, and Paul is critical of how these folks were doing it.

The Corinthian church was ignorant about spiritual gifts - they had forbidden speaking in tongues, which Paul told them to stop doing, in 1 Corinthians 14:9.


Paul instructs them at length in chapter 14 about how tongues and prophecy spoken aloud in church are to be used (the same church to whom he gives the list of all the types of spiritual gifts to in chapter 12) - and told them that he wanted to make sure they come behind in no GIFT while they await the second coming of Jesus:


1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:


The word GIFT there is CHARISMA - which obviously the term CHARISMATIC derives from.


This clearly states Paul wanted them to have every spiritual gift, while they await the return of Jesus - making it obvious that spiritual gifts remain in operation until His return.


Peter said on Pentecost that the gift of the Holy Spirit they and the 120 gathered in the upper room had just received, is for them, their children, those afar off, even to AS MANY AS GOD SHALL CALL in Acts 2:38-39.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost.


Act 2:39 For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.


There’s the expiration date on the same spiritual gift given on Pentecost: when Jesus returns, and when God no longer is calling anyone.


Even though Paul told the Corinthians church to stop forbidding tongues, said he speaks in tongues more than anyone, said they should all speak in tongues, and explained that he wanted them to have all the gifts in operation in their church until Jesus returns, listed all the gifts of the spirit, and explained how to use those gifts during church services, cessationists try to use 1 Corinthians 13:8-11 as their proof text that spiritual gifts ended when the Bible was completed.

That claim is easily refuted by scriptures.

And in Acts it’s even that every time the apostles come into contact with new believers, they laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit, and they spoke in tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

Cessationist doctrine is just plain biblical illiteracy.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis, I agree with the vast majority of what you're saying But the tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost were known languages, not a prayer language. It clearly tells us that those gathered were marveled at those speaking in their native tongue. In short, it didn't take another Saint to interpret only someone from the region that tongue was spoken in.

I think those of us who stand firm in our understanding that the gifts of the Spirit are active today (have not ceased) need to do a better job of understanding when tongues are referring to a different language for the purpose of preaching the word. An example would be the Apostle Paul preaching to those in Spain who do not understand Greek. I think the Holy Spirit gave Apostles the gift to share the word with those who spoke a different language. The Jewish Apostles would certainly need the ability to spread the word in areas of different languages. I also believe that we can have a prayer language.

For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. ... He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Prophesies in Greek can be interpreted as our English word Preach.

I think it's important to understand that our prayer language (tongue) is not from God but to God.

Careful study of the scriptures gives us the ability to differentiate between prayer language and foreign languages of men.

Close, but no cigar, as they say.

Paul wrote there are DIVERS tongues, which is archaic English for DIVERSITIES of tongues, meaning more than one type exists.

There’s the universally understood tongue that occurred only once in scripture on Pentecost, there’s the unknown tongue never understood by any man, that you cited, then there’s the tongue spoken aloud to the congregation as a message from God to them, that is interpreted.

Thus there are three types of tongues according to the scriptures.

Maranatha

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Curtis]

Precious friend, IF God DOESN'T Hear me when I pray in my OWN language, then
I Must Be In Big Trouble, eh?

For WE know not how to pray as we OUGHT, but the spirit prays for us with groanings that can’t be uttered, helping our infirmities.

You don’t know how to pray as you ought,

But if you’re a cessationist you are missing that Holy Spirit aid for your infirmities.

Jesus prayed that way:

Joh 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

 

[rockytopva]

Ohhh...I feel the joy and the heat. Love it! Wish I could go to your church, man! Love the tunage!

Wow the revivals I experienced in that church! Even without tongues very much the feeling of the Holy Spirit in the midst of us!

 

[Truman]

Close, but no cigar, as they say.

Paul wrote there are DIVERS tongues, which is archaic English for DIVERSITIES of tongues, meaning more than one type exists.

There’s the universally understood tongue that occurred only once in scripture on Pentecost, there’s the unknown tongue never understood by any man, that you cited, then there’s the tongue spoken aloud to the congregation as a message from God to them, that is interpreted.

Thus there are three types of tongues according to the scriptures.

Maranatha

Shalom Aleichem

Aleichem Shalom

 

[TEXBOW]

There’s the universally understood tongue that occurred only once in scripture on Pentecost,(A KNOWN LANGUAGE) there’s the unknown tongue never understood by any man, that you cited,(PRAYER LANGUAGE) then there’s the tongue spoken aloud to the congregation as a message from God to them, that is interpreted.(PROPHECY)

Thus there are three types of tongues according to the scriptures.

Scripture tells us we can sing in the Spirit too. I would put that in a Prayer Language bucket. The experience mentioned at Pentecost concerning the gift of the Spirit is not given to us again in the scriptures (people speaking in different known languages) but I would not assume that it never happened again. Some translate Pauls directions concerning the orderly handling of Tongues as someone preaching to a multi cultural gathering that has attendees who speak different languages and interpreters are necessary. That it is not good to have too many interpreters trying to translate at one time. It is interesting that Tongues is briefly mentioned in scripture and almost always concerning Paul. Since Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles who's mission was to different cultural areas in Asia Minor and the Roman Empire it makes sense that he would encounter different languages. We know he could speak two or three languages but we do not know if those disciples with him could do so. Paul said he was glad he could speak Tongues more than any of them, was he referring to language, I think so. Timothy for example might not have had that ability. Could Apollo? I think it takes a great deal of study to parse when Paul is talking about Spirit filled unknown utterances vs. speaking in different languages.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Cessationist doctrine is just plain biblical illiteracy.

Thanks, I resemble that remark!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

But if you’re a cessationist you are missing that Holy Spirit aid for your infirmities.

Precious friend, HIGHLY doubtful, I thank Him Each And EVERY day that HE "Helps me IN my Infirmities." Of course, I am simply a "plain biblical illiterate," Correct?:

GRACE Word for infirmities

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think it was in another forum I said this, but I told an anti-tongues member of the two events that happened in my own church with a close friend and myself. My close friend was praying in ordinary Pentecostal tongues in a prayer meeting and was told by a Christian brother visiting from Ghana that my friend was praising God in his own village dialect (a language my friend could never have known) and the brother told him exactly what he was saying. The other event was when I was praying in my usual tongues language when a New Zealand Maori friend told me that I was speaking encouraging things to her in the New Zealand Maori language, fluently without any trace of an accent. When I learned beginner Maori some years later, when I tried to speak it to my students, a 10 year old bilingual boy just rolled around the floor laughing at my mispronunciations.

I told the other member that he was in a catch 22 situation: either he had to acknowledge that modern Pentecostal tongues was genuine, or that my friend, the 20 people who witnessed the even, the brother from Ghana, the New Zealand Maori lady, and I were, are lying.

Expectedly, he declined to answer, because he had no answer. That meant that his anti-tongues position was shot down in flames, because he was faced with either his anti-tongues mentors were lying, and so was he, or a whole group of people who witnessed ordinary Pentecostal tongues being understood by native speaks of those tongues were lying. But the group of people who witnessed the events had no reason to lie because they didn't have an "agenda" to try and prove a point. All we all did was to witness a miracle - that someone speaking in ordinary Pentecostal tongues was in the first case praising God in a dialect spoken in a rural village in Ghana, halfway across the world from New Zealand, and in the second case, a language of the indigenous people of New Zealand. The four people involved were my friend, Terry Coburn, the Ghanaian brother, Badu Bediaka, the Maori lady Mrs Samuels, and myself.

This is more than just an "experience". These were actual live and witnessed events that really happened. Pretty hard to refute, seeing that there are at least 24 people who would stand up and say it was all true, because they were there.

Hi Paul,

If you remember my book, I explained what is happening, and it was the only thing that scripturally could be happening in both of those cases. It is the same thing that happened in my church in Arizona. People were praying in tongues around this girl they had brought to church, but what she HEARD was English. God was speaking to her and through hearing Him, became a Christian. When questioned, she didn't hear tongues, she heard English, but everyone else just heard the tongues. Hearing the languages of Ghana and Maori is the same thing. The tongues could have been any language, but I guarantee you, it wasn't those. They heard by the gift of interpretation of tongues, and what they heard supernaturally was languages they were familiar with. Tongues cannot be understood naturally by anyone. 1 Corinthians 14:2.

The same thing happened on the Day of Pentecost. They were speaking in tongues, but what each HEARD was their own language, and it gives a list of the languages they HEARD.

This happens also with Satan and the counterfeit. Unbelievers can hear tongues, and what they HEAR is a language they understand, but the content is blasphemy. That is why they spread the slander that tongues are of the devil. Therefore, they truly believe in their reasons for Cessationism.

 

[Tong2020]

Gift of tongues. Whether in worship or in prayer, at public community meetings or alone in private rooms, the gift is of tongues.

Tongues are a means of communication, a means of expressing outwardly something that is coming from inside of one. It is something that involves, not only the physical tongue, but the heart and the spirit.

Tongues are for the ears or for the hearing of others to whom the message it carries are intended for, meant to be understood so as to penetrate their heart and soul, to become effective and meaningful. Tongues have its purpose/s and are so given in view of that.

Tongues will continue for as long as there is purpose; and ceases when there is no more purpose.

Tongues is a gift from God. And the Holy Spirit gives it to one as He wills. It is not to be taken that we must have such gift to be said to be a true believer/Christian, as if, it is the seal of proof or identity mark. The seal that the true believers/Christians were given, is the Holy Spirit. We must not confuse the gift of Tongues with the gift of the Holy Spirit. Tongues is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not Tongues.

God is spirit, who is to be worshiped in spirit and in truth.

Tong
R4757

 

[GRACE ambassador]

This happens also with Satan and the counterfeit. Unbelievers can hear tongues, and what they HEAR is a language they understand, but the content is blasphemy. That is why they spread the slander that tongues are of the devil. Therefore, they truly believe in their reasons for Cessationism.

Precious friend, NO, I don't believe my reasons {as I have NONE!}, BUT:
I do believe God's Reason! Amen.

 

[Truman]

You have a different opinion than mine, and are entitled to it. It is the Lord that judges our hearts.

 

[Tong2020]

The same thing happened on the Day of Pentecost. They were speaking in tongues, but what each HEARD was their own language, and it gives a list of the languages they HEARD.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

That is where the whole amazement was coming from. For all were Galileans and were not expected to be speaking other tongues or languages of other nations, nor were expected to know how to.

11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

We (the other nations) hear them (disciples) speaking (the disciples) in our (the other nations) own tongues. That's in light of verse 2. Clear to me then is that the disciples are speaking, that is, uttering words of the languages of the other nations. It is not that the disciples were speaking their own native tongue and the other nations understand them as what they hear are their respective tongues.

13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

These others are they who hear all of the different languages the disciples simultaneously are speaking. It’s chaos in that sense, each speaking a different tongue. That they mocked “they are full of wine”. That would not be the case if they are all speaking one tongue, their native tongue.

7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?

The disciples were together and probably were distinguished by their looks and appearance. They were not that sure of they were Galileans. However, they are quite sure they are native to one common place or are of one tongue.

The amazement was that they speak in different foreign tongues.

Tong
R4759

 

[BloodBought 1953]

[QUOTE="Curtis, post

When that happens there’s no doubt whatsoever about being filled with the Holy Ghost and Dunamis power, but you wouldn’t know anything about that as a cessationist.[/QUOTE]



This comment creates in me two strong desires.....#1 I wish I knew what that word meant. #2. I wish I cared enough to look it up......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

These Scriptures clearly show that speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit


I don’t really know if this is speaking in tongues or not, but here you go —— Pfffttttt! You are preaching a False Gospel...You are Baptized into the Body Of Christ the moment you Believe......” Speaking in Tongues” could be considered “ icing on the cake”...... for some.