4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:1-6
Tongues
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
That's the next chapter
1 Corinthians chapter 13 and Ephesians chapter 6..
Tongues, swords and words always seem to connect.
I was thinking about the Sword that is the Word of God, that divides bone and marrow and has the power to kill and make alive.
The tongue is powerful. I believe more powerful than the pen.
just thinking..
hugs
Just simply to state where I am on this topic I am reposting my own post from about 6 months ago. Others have covered many of the involved scriptures:
My record is reliable to me. Each and every morning in my prayer time with God as I get involved in my talks with Him, I always lapse into the prayer language which He gave me for that purpose many years ago. Unreliable? For me it is reliable.
My tongues spoken to God daily for a great many years [first time in 1976] now are not unintelligible to Him. But... that is as it should be as they are to communicate with Him.
When a natural baby begins to make noises with his mouth it is babble which has no meaning and so no one understands. As the child grows some of the babble begins to have meaning for him and for a select few very close ones, like the ones he calls out to with formed baby words: ma ma, da da, which in time may become mama and daddy. A baby whose growth is stunted may never move beyond babble to a language in which he is able to intelligently converse with his parents.
Similarly when a baby Christian first speaks in a "new tongue [language]" it may be no more than unintelligible babble. Some new believers get lazy or are told they need do nothing else and they do not. They do not continue to use their new language practicing it by talking with God... and babble it remains. Too many baby Christians sitting in pews regularly who have never grown up even though they have been around for many years: Babies all of their lives!
My wife received a different set of gifts from God. She receives messages in unknown tongues and she interprets messages given in unknown tongues. Unlike me, my wife speaks no other human languages but English and a special unknown language God has given her. She received her gift in the year I did, 1976. Unreliable? I would not say so. Does every part of the Body of Christ know everything about all the other parts working in the functions given to them by God? There is only one Head of the Body of Christ and that is not you nor me, but Jesus!
"And he is the head of the body, the church..." Col 1:18
My record is reliable to me. Each and every morning in my prayer time with God as I get involved in my talks with Him, I always lapse into the prayer language which He gave me for that purpose many years ago. Unreliable? For me it is reliable.
My tongues spoken to God daily for a great many years [first time in 1976] now are not unintelligible to Him. But... that is as it should be as they are to communicate with Him.
When a natural baby begins to make noises with his mouth it is babble which has no meaning and so no one understands. As the child grows some of the babble begins to have meaning for him and for a select few very close ones, like the ones he calls out to with formed baby words: ma ma, da da, which in time may become mama and daddy. A baby whose growth is stunted may never move beyond babble to a language in which he is able to intelligently converse with his parents.
Similarly when a baby Christian first speaks in a "new tongue [language]" it may be no more than unintelligible babble. Some new believers get lazy or are told they need do nothing else and they do not. They do not continue to use their new language practicing it by talking with God... and babble it remains. Too many baby Christians sitting in pews regularly who have never grown up even though they have been around for many years: Babies all of their lives!
My wife received a different set of gifts from God. She receives messages in unknown tongues and she interprets messages given in unknown tongues. Unlike me, my wife speaks no other human languages but English and a special unknown language God has given her. She received her gift in the year I did, 1976. Unreliable? I would not say so. Does every part of the Body of Christ know everything about all the other parts working in the functions given to them by God? There is only one Head of the Body of Christ and that is not you nor me, but Jesus!
"And he is the head of the body, the church..." Col 1:18
Here is the Greek word in 1 Cor. 2:14 that has been rendered "natural" or "unspiritual" or "sensual".
Greek "Psuchikos" - this is the Greek word for soul. It also lends itself to be sometimes rendered as phyche, but soul is the actual word.
So if we correct the bad translations, we have this:
1 Cor 2:14 The soulical man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
This means Christians can be carnal and not spiritual. They live their lives according to their own soul... their SELF.
And when you live according to the flesh, the self, the soul.... you cannot be living by the Spirit.
Please read and understand:
Galatians 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would.
The Christian is supposed to be crucifying his flesh (his soul) and allowing himself to be led by the Spirit. The soul and the spirit are against each other.
If you crucify your soul, and learn to be led by the Spirit, you can then save (or keep, or retain) your soul, rather than losing it.
1 Peter 1:9 As the outcome of your faith you obtain the salvation of your souls.
This is why, people, you want every moment of your life to be living, and praying, in the Spirit.
Tongues is a very wonderful and important gift.
It has been argued that the rhetorical "Do all possess gifts of healing , are all speaking in tongues, and do all work miracles" with the rhetorical "No" is a proof of their position.
It's only proof of an obvious thing.
The fact that many on here argue against tongues and are afraid to step forward in faith to obtain what God wants them to have, grieves God, and well then... I guess we are stuck with "Do all pray in tongues?"... answer being no. Because they are afraid and won't move forward.
Last point:
Luke 11:10 "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it shall be opened.
Luke 11:11 "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?
Luke 11:12 "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he?
Luke 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
The true context of the teaching about God granting requests, is the request for the Holy Spirit.
Read v.13 there.
You must ask for the Holy Spirit. You must ask! It's not the same thing as being born again. Then you asked for forgiveness of sins and mercy from God in Jesus' Name. And you got saved. But this other thing, the POWER, must be asked for.
It requires faith. You gotta step forward in faith to obtain it. It does not just happen by accident.
ONE LAST POST COMING....
Greek "Psuchikos" - this is the Greek word for soul. It also lends itself to be sometimes rendered as phyche, but soul is the actual word.
So if we correct the bad translations, we have this:
1 Cor 2:14 The soulical man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
This means Christians can be carnal and not spiritual. They live their lives according to their own soul... their SELF.
And when you live according to the flesh, the self, the soul.... you cannot be living by the Spirit.
Please read and understand:
Galatians 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would.
The Christian is supposed to be crucifying his flesh (his soul) and allowing himself to be led by the Spirit. The soul and the spirit are against each other.
If you crucify your soul, and learn to be led by the Spirit, you can then save (or keep, or retain) your soul, rather than losing it.
1 Peter 1:9 As the outcome of your faith you obtain the salvation of your souls.
This is why, people, you want every moment of your life to be living, and praying, in the Spirit.
Tongues is a very wonderful and important gift.
It has been argued that the rhetorical "Do all possess gifts of healing , are all speaking in tongues, and do all work miracles" with the rhetorical "No" is a proof of their position.
It's only proof of an obvious thing.
The fact that many on here argue against tongues and are afraid to step forward in faith to obtain what God wants them to have, grieves God, and well then... I guess we are stuck with "Do all pray in tongues?"... answer being no. Because they are afraid and won't move forward.
Last point:
Luke 11:10 "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it shall be opened.
Luke 11:11 "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?
Luke 11:12 "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he?
Luke 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
The true context of the teaching about God granting requests, is the request for the Holy Spirit.
Read v.13 there.
You must ask for the Holy Spirit. You must ask! It's not the same thing as being born again. Then you asked for forgiveness of sins and mercy from God in Jesus' Name. And you got saved. But this other thing, the POWER, must be asked for.
It requires faith. You gotta step forward in faith to obtain it. It does not just happen by accident.
ONE LAST POST COMING....
Last edited:
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think the problem is there are too many Simon's in the world that imitate gifts for money and fame.
And after you see enough of them in action it causes one to doubt.
I believe there are spiritual gifts as stated in the Bible.
But the charlatans who abuse them are many.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Hugs
And after you see enough of them in action it causes one to doubt.
I believe there are spiritual gifts as stated in the Bible.
But the charlatans who abuse them are many.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Hugs
By those who have done a linguistic analysis. Glossolalia (modern tongues) is called "free vocalization" and includes "some infant speech and some phenomena outside the Christian religion".
https://faculty.wts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1980-Spring-TonguesSpeaking.pdf
I'm trying to be helpful. The Holy Spirit is so exciting... and I want all of you to understand how wonderful He is and how to be moving in the Spirit (not some strange notion)... Walking in the Spirit is concrete. It's practical. It can be understood.
So let me give you a teaching scenario that should be extremely helpful in your question, "But how do I receive this gift?"
Let's say that all of us except Rita had been talking with God up in heaven standing around His throne, and He told us that He wanted Rita to have the gift of healing. And we are all excited about Rita being granted this gift so she can lay hands on people and they can get healed. Oh Rita! How wonderful! And we're all watching her down on earth, and she keeps having opportunities to heal people, but she never steps up to it.
And we're like, "Oh Rita.... come on girl. God is ready to give it to you. You just gotta step up in faith, girl!"
Alright... so let me flesh this out some for you.
Rita is sitting in a restaurant drinking her coffee and there's a guy across the room in a wheel chair. She thinks, "I would love to lay hands on him and see him walk again, but God has not given me the gift yet."
Now I'm going to ask all of you a question.
Do you think this is how the gift is given to Rita?
There's a loud rushing noise against the windows... the wind is blowing hard.... and then the wind blows the windows out of the frames and there's a crashing of glass... and then the wind comes over to Rita and lifts her out of her chair so that she levitates... and then starts moving her across the room in the air to where the guy in a wheel chair is seated... and forces her arm and hand out in front of her to lay it on the guy in the wheel chair... and then the wind starts telling her what words to say... and wahlah! The man is healed and gets up and dances the rumba!
Do you think that's how Rita is going to OBTAIN the gift?
No. Obviously no.
So how does Rita actually obtain the gift that God wants her to have? Has already spoken it for her to have?
Would it not be more like this?
She is sitting at the restaurant drinking her coffee and see a guy in a wheel chair, and something inside her inner man (the spirit) is prompting her to get up and go over to the guy. She is moved by her inner man to say certain words, so she says them, and then the miracle happens. Yes!
She steps out in faith to an unction on the inside of her (spirit), and that is how things happen.
Lastly... as always, there is a learning curve to some degree.
See here:
1 Cor 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1 Cor 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
1 Cor 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.
1 Cor 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
DO you see in v.29 that when the 2 or 3 prophets speak, let the others WEIGH what is said?
WEIGH.... this works in both directions.
The prophet speaks a word to the people. It's possible that the Word he is getting in his spirit is tainted by his going too far when he speaks the word and gets carried away by allowing his own soul to add to it. He's a young prophet.
And the rest of the assembled saints weigh the word.
Now Rita is in this assembly and she says to the prophet after the meeting, "Hey Todd. That word you spoke really spoke to me. The part about getting the gift of healing, and I was really encouraged by that. But that other part, about ____, well that did not agree with my spirit."
So then Todd says, "Thank you for saying so." And he reflects on the word, and "knows" that he did get into the flesh a little bit, and has to learn to be better about delivering a word.
The listeners are weighing what is said. They have to learn to hear with their inner man (the spirit).
Everybody is learning in this.
So let me give you a teaching scenario that should be extremely helpful in your question, "But how do I receive this gift?"
Let's say that all of us except Rita had been talking with God up in heaven standing around His throne, and He told us that He wanted Rita to have the gift of healing. And we are all excited about Rita being granted this gift so she can lay hands on people and they can get healed. Oh Rita! How wonderful! And we're all watching her down on earth, and she keeps having opportunities to heal people, but she never steps up to it.
And we're like, "Oh Rita.... come on girl. God is ready to give it to you. You just gotta step up in faith, girl!"
Alright... so let me flesh this out some for you.
Rita is sitting in a restaurant drinking her coffee and there's a guy across the room in a wheel chair. She thinks, "I would love to lay hands on him and see him walk again, but God has not given me the gift yet."
Now I'm going to ask all of you a question.
Do you think this is how the gift is given to Rita?
There's a loud rushing noise against the windows... the wind is blowing hard.... and then the wind blows the windows out of the frames and there's a crashing of glass... and then the wind comes over to Rita and lifts her out of her chair so that she levitates... and then starts moving her across the room in the air to where the guy in a wheel chair is seated... and forces her arm and hand out in front of her to lay it on the guy in the wheel chair... and then the wind starts telling her what words to say... and wahlah! The man is healed and gets up and dances the rumba!
Do you think that's how Rita is going to OBTAIN the gift?
No. Obviously no.
So how does Rita actually obtain the gift that God wants her to have? Has already spoken it for her to have?
Would it not be more like this?
She is sitting at the restaurant drinking her coffee and see a guy in a wheel chair, and something inside her inner man (the spirit) is prompting her to get up and go over to the guy. She is moved by her inner man to say certain words, so she says them, and then the miracle happens. Yes!
She steps out in faith to an unction on the inside of her (spirit), and that is how things happen.
Lastly... as always, there is a learning curve to some degree.
See here:
1 Cor 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1 Cor 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
1 Cor 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God.
1 Cor 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
DO you see in v.29 that when the 2 or 3 prophets speak, let the others WEIGH what is said?
WEIGH.... this works in both directions.
The prophet speaks a word to the people. It's possible that the Word he is getting in his spirit is tainted by his going too far when he speaks the word and gets carried away by allowing his own soul to add to it. He's a young prophet.
And the rest of the assembled saints weigh the word.
Now Rita is in this assembly and she says to the prophet after the meeting, "Hey Todd. That word you spoke really spoke to me. The part about getting the gift of healing, and I was really encouraged by that. But that other part, about ____, well that did not agree with my spirit."
So then Todd says, "Thank you for saying so." And he reflects on the word, and "knows" that he did get into the flesh a little bit, and has to learn to be better about delivering a word.
The listeners are weighing what is said. They have to learn to hear with their inner man (the spirit).
Everybody is learning in this.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friends, I believe this is the wrong question, because IF the
"gift of tongues has ceased {*}," According To God's PERFECT
{"which Has Come"} Word (Psa 138:2), Then:
this OP question would be moot, Correct?
My experience, as a babe In CHRIST, was not so good?
However, did God Desire me to "learn something"?:
First, was invited to a "tongues" assembly, and they all stood up,
and "spoke in tongues" at once. Kinda scary for a baby. Today,
as a grownup, I could ask: IF the "gift" is still in effect, were they
"following ALL the rules" in 1_Corinthians_14?
Next was, as a Very Hungry baby, got my Sword of The Lord news,
listened to the radio, and, also on TV, heard a "tongues" teacher tell
me, I "could do it, simply by putting my hand on the TV, and wait on
God." Nothing happened. But today, I am told by {loving?} critics, in
these Confusing problems I have encountered:
Some, being judgmental: It IS for us today, and you "should have
waited on God longer, until it happened," or, "you did NOT have enough
faith." Have I mistakenly believed Scripture: Only "God Is my JUDGE"?
+
Some others say: "IF you don't speak in tongues, you Not saved," and
still others: "you're saved, BUT, Not Filled With The Holy Spirit."
Kudos to you, {loving?} @Truman, saying:
"One Can Be Filled With The Holy Spirit, and NOT speak in tongues." =
Thanks! Would that be Christ-like love?:
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not
charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though
I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;
and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor,
and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth
me nothing." (1Co_13:1-3)
Thus, my experience {which, btw, is Not Inspired} really means nothing,
except "learning," As Scripture Teaches me, I Should (...walk By Faith,
Not by sight {experience, signs, wonders, miracles, etc?}:...) (2Co 5:7)
But, my belief In: 1Co 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion,
but of PEACE, as in all churches of the saints." caused this "study" Of
{lesson learned?: Totally Rely ONLY On:} HIS Word Of Truth:
{*} 3 gifts Superseded By THREE Gifts
+
For the Confusion of healings, Today?: GRACE Word for infirmities
Conclusion:
Could This possibly Be The Fullness God "Approves" For Today,
Under GRACE?:
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL, today?)
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
Blessed Be The Name of The LORD, And HIS Perfect (Psa 138:2), Pure,
And "Exalted Above All His Name," WORD For Ever And Ever!! Amen?
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Pathfinder7
Well-Known Member
"..I always lapse into the prayer language.."
---
I have similar experience..
- During my morning devotion time.
It is my understanding that you're more Calvin than Calvin. Notice how I couched my statement in respect. I respect respectful people.
I think I'll go back under my bed...there's no internet there! Lol
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
You mean academia? What does the wisdom of man have to do with the spirituality of the Spirit.
All spiritual gifts including tongues are from the Holy Spirit. And one would have one or more spiritual gifts according to the will of the Holy Spirit who gives it. The Holy Spirit gives it to one, for some reason and purpose, and not without. It is my thinking that a certain of such gifts ceases if and when the Holy Spirit’s purpose had either been achieved and completed.
So, it is not for us to say whether tongues have ceased already or not, or that all must have tongues for a sign of being a true Christian or not.
I think gifts of the Holy are to be used and acted out than said and claim to have.
Tong
R4588
So, it is not for us to say whether tongues have ceased already or not, or that all must have tongues for a sign of being a true Christian or not.
I think gifts of the Holy are to be used and acted out than said and claim to have.
Tong
R4588
It’s not arbitrary to refute the unlearned claim of cessationists that tongues are only one kind and understood by all who hear, when scripture says there’s an unknown tongue that no man ever understands.
That doesn’t require rocket science level understanding to discern that the claim is bogus.
Maranatha
There’s a specialist gift of tongues that’s given in church and interpreted, and then there’s the personal prayer language tongue that is a sign that follows all those who believe.
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