Traditional Roman Catholic Here

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MattO

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Correct.

Romans 10 provides more detail than most chapters, but it is representative of the whole Gospel, the power of the Gospel, and how sinners are saved. Paul summed it up in Acts 16:31: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And yes, we do not develop any doctrine on the basis of just one verse or passage, although if it is consistent with Gospel truth, it would be valid.

Why do you say it is representative of the Whole Gospel? To me it seems like you might as well throw the rest of the Gospel in the trash under this philosophy. From this view point, there should be the Old Testament and then the New Testament should only contain Romans 10 and show how Christ fulfilled the Messianic Prophecies. I guess Jesus Christ and the Apostles were just rambling about all that other stuff they said.

Let us also remember that the Ancient Israelites believed that there is Salvation on Earth (which one can fall from) and eternal Salvation in Heaven. Its my belief that Romans 10 is in reference to the early Christian Catechumens.

While the New Testament mentions "Saved" on many different occasions, it is likely that, in many of those occasions it is referring to Salvation on Earth.
 
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Enoch111

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While the New Testament mentions "Saved" on many different occasions, it is likely that, in many of those occasions it is referring to Salvation on Earth.
Matt, you are thoroughly confused. Why don't you simply sit down and go through the entire New Testament before you respond again. And ask God to show you the truth from His Word. That would be far better than studying your Catechism.
 
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MattO

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Correct.

Romans 10 provides more detail than most chapters, but it is representative of the whole Gospel, the power of the Gospel, and how sinners are saved. Paul summed it up in Acts 16:31: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And yes, we do not develop any doctrine on the basis of just one verse or passage, although if it is consistent with Gospel truth, it would be valid.
Why do you say that Romans 10 is representative of the whole Gospel?
 

Rollo Tamasi

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The "Catholic" Church that most "Catholics" are apart of, issued an "updated" version of the Catechism following Vatican II in 1965. The new Catechism called for the liberalization of certain Catholic Doctrines. A few that come to mind...

1) Emphasis on women wearing vails, as an outward expression of their submission to their husband (mentioned in scripture), during the Catholic mass was greatly reduced to the point that it is nearly non-existent at a Novus Ordo mass today.

2) The Church began issuing annulments and divorces at extremely high rates compared to past times. In the past, there were only a few legitimate reasons to get divorced/annulled. That list has since grown greatly. On top of it all, Catholics were being remarried by priests after they had been divorced. Traditionally, the Catholic Church would not allow someone to remarry after being divorced since scripture says that this would be considered adultery (a sin worthy of the Death Penalty). I think even in a non-Catholic Christian wedding that the couple takes the oath, "until death do us apart".

3) Traditionally, hymns that contained Biblical truth were sang and organs were played during the Mass. Nowadays, you hear acoustic guitars, drums, pianos and some non-Catholic Christian songs that are played on Christian radio stations at the mass. I personally believe this is an expression of Ecumenism or in other words "One World Government" agenda.

4) The belief that non-Christians can still make it to Heaven. I think its pretty obvious that this belief is wrong. I also believe this is a ploy for One World Government.

5) The belief in civil rights was introduced to the Catechism under the title "Human Community". The Church has become more communist and humanistic than it was in its past.

There is more but I can't think of anything else off hand.

Lastly, even though the Novus Ordo has gone the route of One World Government, I do not believe it is the Whore of Babylon.
Matt, you hit it right on the nose.
nasty old stuff by the vatican
you know it all
thanks for revealing it to all of us
 
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Rollo Tamasi

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I would like to clarify this again. It has been clarified for the fiftieth time but it seems the clarification falls on deaf ears.
It is Catholicism that is opposed, not Catholics. Perhaps you do not understand the difference?? If you don't I am happy to clarify it otherwise please make the distinction if you desire to be accurate.
and you sound like catholicism, not the catholic.
 

MattO

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Matt, you hit it right on the nose.
nasty old stuff by the vatican
you know it all
thanks for revealing it to all of us
Thank You. I feel like I have to explain why it is I believe the way that I do.

Traditionally, the Catholic Church did not open up about Theology because the higher ups believed that very few people make it to Heaven and that if people were to know the Truth that the vast majority of them would suffer more so in Hell (Scripture states that the more that has been given to us the more is required -and- that it would have been better to have never known the path of righteousness than to have know it and have turned ones back on the sacred command -and- "The Fewness of the Saved").

It used to be that only Bishops and Priests had copies of the Bible and the Catechism.

I believe that one can come to believe without having read the Bible. Why do I say this? The Bible was not written until many years after the events of the New Testament. Yeah Yeah, I meant the New Testament was not written until many years later.
 
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aspen

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I am a member of the Catholic Church. I am a Christian and a sinner who is practicing loving others perfectly. I confess my sins to God and the church. I am not an apologist for the Vatican. I am mostly focused on prayer. I am often bored by conspiracy theories whether it is about politics or the Vatican

Welcome.
 

MattO

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I am a member of the Catholic Church. I am a Christian and a sinner who is practicing loving others perfectly. I confess my sins to God and the church. I am not an apologist for the Vatican. I am mostly focused on prayer. I am often bored by conspiracy theories whether it is about politics or the Vatican

Welcome.
Thanks
 

aspen

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MattO

You sound like a Protestant.....
 

quietthinker

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You are hitting on rules and not people.
Most catholics don't even know the rules beyond what goes on in a mass.
To try to speak for catholics by reciting catholic rules is ludicrous.
Yeah, blindness is endemic.
 

quietthinker

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That sounds all very good....
But I can't say that I can agree with you here.
I have seem many angry, nasty, name calling posts to the Catholic members here.
And I have seen them defend what they believe by the same level of hostility.
It is the main issue on the Site which lowers the spiritual atmosphere of this place. Most other members seem to be able to disagree in a good spirit.
Helen, I'm addressing your choice of words namely Catholic vs Catholicism. The behaviour of others is no excuse to misrepresent the issue.

One is the individual the other is the system.
 

Enoch111

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It used to be that only Bishops and Priests had copies of the Bible and the Catechism.
Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. God's Word was suppressed by the Catholic Church so that ordinary people would never learn God's truth. Hence the bitter hatred for the Reformers, or non-Catholics who had the Bible and knew the Gospel and Bible truth. And even after Catholic bibles were published and circulated, it was the priest or the pope who was supposed to interpret God's Word to the poor ignorant masses.

However, now that the Bible is freely available to everyone online, no Catholic has any excuse to continue believing the lies of the RCC. And once people see the truth, they must leave the Catholic Church and all its religious trappings.
 

MattO

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Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. God's Word was suppressed by the Catholic Church so that ordinary people would never learn God's truth. Hence the bitter hatred for the Reformers, or non-Catholics who had the Bible and knew the Gospel and Bible truth. And even after Catholic bibles were published and circulated, it was the priest or the pope who was supposed to interpret God's Word to the poor ignorant masses.

However, now that the Bible is freely available to everyone online, no Catholic has any excuse to continue believing the lies of the RCC. And once people see the truth, they must leave the Catholic Church and all its religious trappings.
I'm sorry. I can't have a constructive debate with someone who does not answer any of my questions.
 

GodsGrace

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The "Catholic" Church that most "Catholics" are apart of, issued an "updated" version of the Catechism following Vatican II in 1965. The new Catechism called for the liberalization of certain Catholic Doctrines. A few that come to mind...

1) Emphasis on women wearing vails, as an outward expression of their submission to their husband (mentioned in scripture), during the Catholic mass was greatly reduced to the point that it is nearly non-existent at a Novus Ordo mass today.

2) The Church began issuing annulments and divorces at extremely high rates compared to past times. In the past, there were only a few legitimate reasons to get divorced/annulled. That list has since grown greatly. On top of it all, Catholics were being remarried by priests after they had been divorced. Traditionally, the Catholic Church would not allow someone to remarry after being divorced since scripture says that this would be considered adultery (a sin worthy of the Death Penalty). I think even in a non-Catholic Christian wedding that the couple takes the oath, "until death do us apart".

3) Traditionally, hymns that contained Biblical truth were sang and organs were played during the Mass. Nowadays, you hear acoustic guitars, drums, pianos and some non-Catholic Christian songs that are played on Christian radio stations at the mass. I personally believe this is an expression of Ecumenism or in other words "One World Government" agenda.

4) The belief that non-Christians can still make it to Heaven. I think its pretty obvious that this belief is wrong. I also believe this is a ploy for One World Government.

5) The belief in civil rights was introduced to the Catechism under the title "Human Community". The Church has become more communist and humanistic than it was in its past.

There is more but I can't think of anything else off hand.

Lastly, even though the Novus Ordo has gone the route of One World Government, I do not believe it is the Whore of Babylon.
Interesting.
But I hope you know what a heresy is...
1. Number 1 is not a heresy.

2. I have my doubts about number 2. Some annulments are honest and true,,,some are not. But this is also not a heresy.

3. This is not a heresy.

4. This is complicated and I won't get into it... the way you've worded it, I'd have to say it's correct.

5. I just looked up Human Community in my CCC and it's not listed.
I don't really know what this is so if you could give me some paragraph numbers?

I do believe you're concerned about a one-world government or a one-world religion. I think some would like us to be headed that way but we're still a long way off. Nationalism is also being phased out to get to the one-world govt. I have a feeling Jesus will be returning before all that. I certainly hope so.

P.S. Regarding number 4...I do believe this Pope has changed Catholic doctrine.