Tribulation Trivia

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● Rev 13:11 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had
two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.

This particular beast will be, from all appearances, a seemingly harmless
individual, viz: he won't have the look of a menace.

For example; German SS officer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler had the look of a
classic Mr. Milquetoast; but underneath that facade was an unbelievable
capacity for cruelty, subterfuge, and murder on a grand scale. In other
words: you couldn't tell at first glance that Himmler was a monster in whose
opinion human lives are inconvenient.
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● Rev 13:11-17 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth . . .
and he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come
down from heaven to earth in full view of men . . . he deceived the
inhabitants of the earth and ordered them to set up an image in honor of the
beast . . . He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast,
so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be
executed.

The dimensions of the image aren't given but I should think it will be large
enough to be imposing.

For example: side by side statues of former North Korean leaders Kim Il
sung and Kim Jong-IL, located on Mansu Hill in Pyongyang, are 22 meters
(72+ feet) tall. If one of those statues ever came to life, it would make quite
an impression because something that big would be very difficult to fake for
even a top-notch magician like David Copperfield.

* The Greek word translated "beast" refers to dangerous animals as opposed
to peaceful critters like goats, sheep, prairie dogs, and squeaky little gerbils.
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● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having
the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to
every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud
voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is
come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the
fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis;
and reiterated at Ps 19:1-4 and Rom 1:19-20. It's very elementary; pretty
much all it says is:

1) There's a supreme being.

2) People should not take Him lightly.

3) He deserves to be honored and respected.

4) There's a reckoning looming on the horizon.

5) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the result of
intelligent design.
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● Rev 14:9-12 . . A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: If
anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the
forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which
has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.

. . . He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy
angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and
ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his
image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.

The holy city depicted at Rev 21:9-27 will never experience nightfall nor
darkness. On the basis of that, some have proposed that Rev 14:9-12 is
entirely symbolic because it says that the folks assigned to the burning
sulfur will be given no rest day or night in a place where supposedly there
will be no night.

However "in the presence of" doesn't necessarily mean the site of the
burning sulfur is located inside the city's walls, mostly because Rev 21:27
says: "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is
shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's
book of life." And also Rev 22:14-15 which says: "Blessed are those who
wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go
through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice
magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone
who loves and practices falsehood."

Though there will be neither day nor night inside the city that doesn't
preclude the possibility that there will be day and night outside. At an rate; I
think we have to expect there will be no breaks in the torment but that it will
be perpetual 24/7/365 with neither intermission, nor interruption, nor time
off for good behavior. That will be an awful scene; yet quite possibly a rather
ghastly tourist attraction. (Isa 66:23-24)

● Rev 14:12 . .This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who
obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

People will find themselves caught in a sort of Catch 22, so to speak. If they
follow the Beast, they'll be safe from execution but end up in the sulfur. If
they follow God and His son Jesus, they'll be safe from the sulfur but end up
executed.

● Rev 14:13 . . .Then I heard a voice from heaven say: "Write: Blessed are
the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest
from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

One of the deeds sure to follow those folks is their decision to remain true to
God and His son Jesus instead of following the Beast. (cf. Matt 10:22)
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● Rev 16:3 . .The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned
into blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.

Fresh blood is tolerable as far as odor goes, whereas the blood of a dead
man is in a state of putrefaction; and then adding to that the carcasses and
the stench of dead fish, and everything else, will make for quite a chowder
to behold.

The Mediterranean is notable in the Bible; but whether that's the sea spoken
of here is uncertain. However, in Gen 1:10 "sea" pertains to the entirety of
Earth's oceans.

A rather curious sea is located at 1Kings 7:23-26 which suggests that any
accumulation of water, whether in an ocean or on land, can be called a sea,
e.g. ponds and lakes.

● Rev 16:4 . .The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs
of water, and they became blood.

The two passages tell of water pollution on a scale quite a bit more severe
than that of Egypt because this is global rather than limited to one specific
country. Even so; Egypt's was pretty bad because there was no clean water
anywhere for either cooking, drinking, laundry, hygiene, or sanitation. (Ex
7:19-20)
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● Rev 16:13-15 . . Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of
the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false
prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the
kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

. . . Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes
with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.

There is much disagreement in our day as to signs indicating the extraction described
by 1Thess 4:16-17, but the events depicted in Revelation are neither vague, typical, nor
debatable. When all that stuff begins coming to pass, smart ones will be on the lookout
for a really big surprise.

● Matt 24:27 . . For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to the
west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.

WHAM; on scene, locked and loaded.
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[Jay Ross]

WHAM; on scene, locked and loaded.

This prophecy is a near future event. The Jew will see that Jesus is the one who is judging the kings of the earth on the earth and at the same time the heavenly hosts are being judged in heaven and together both the judged kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts will be gathered together and imprisoned for many days, i.e., 376,250 days to await the time of their punishment.

Christ is described as being like a thief who is making a fleeting visit to gather the Gentile Kings and the influencing Heavenly hosts who have been trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts, Israel, for nearly 2,300 years and removing them for a long period of time from influencing the sea of humanity so that God's Everlasting Kingdom is able to be established without the wicked heavenly hosts interfering in the process by which the Great Summer Season harvest will be achieved. Isaiah 24:21-22, Ephesians 6:12 come to mind.

It is in no way linked to the Second advent of Christ which will occur in our distant future at the end of the Seventh Age.

Oh well, this shows how far we have come from understanding God and His purposes.

 

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● Rev 16:21 . . And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every
stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the
plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

* Talents were gross units of gold weighing from 75-100 pounds. That would
be a preposterous amount of gold to own in our day when it's current
market value is like $2,000 an ounce, but not so bad back there when it was
strictly money instead of traded as a commodity. Gold coins were common,
but try to find one in somebody's pocket today.

Dropping a hail of boulders that size from the sky all over the globe will be
like a deadly implosion smashing, bashing, and crushing most everything it
touches: homes, barns, super markets, strip malls, sports arenas, theaters,
forests, pastures, crops, vehicles, etc.

The natural world will surely experience significant damage among the
critters who live above ground, e.g. hogs, deer, elk, ducks, geese, turkeys,
cows, mustangs, monkeys, gorillas, lions, tigers, hyenas, elephants, giraffes,
butterflies, moths, tortoises, etc.

Just imagine being caught out in the open when that hail starts. Finding
adequate shelter from such a bombardment of ice will be very difficult and
no doubt frightened people will be shrieking and screaming in mortal panic.

Curiously, numbers of people will know the hail is from God but it won't
persuade them to consider making peace with Him, instead; the hail will just
make 'em angry.
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● Rev 19:19-21 . .Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their
armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his
army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had
performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had
deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his
image.

. . .The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of
the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

The potent weapon proceeding from that person's mouth is speech; which
causes me to wonder why more people weren't afraid of Jesus back in his
day because if by speech he could cure leprosy then by speech he could've
caused someone to come down with leprosy; and if by speech he could
energize a crippled man's legs, then by speech he could've put somebody in
a wheel chair; and if by speech he could restore someone's corpse to life,
then by speech he could've made people drop dead to the floor; and if by
speech he could cure blindness, then by speech he could've put people's
eyes out; and if by speech he could multiply loaves and fishes, then by
speech he could've caused famine; and if by speech he could calm a storm,
then by speech he could've caused a hurricane, a typhoon, and/or a tornado.

David's combat with Goliath was an encounter that was possible for David to
win; but I see no chance of anybody's success in a fight with Christ when he
has at his disposal all the miraculous abilities of the supreme being who,
according to the book of Genesis, created a fully functioning cosmos— all its
forms of life, matter, and energy —by nothing more than His voice.
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● Rev 20:1-2 . . And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the
key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on
the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a
thousand years.

● Rev 20:7-9 . . And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be
loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in
the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to
battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on
the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and
the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured
them.

The Old Testament describes the quality of the millennium as an era of
unparalleled justice, equity, peace, and prosperity. I really have to wonder
exactly what it is about Messiah's administration that will dissatisfy the Gogs
and Magogs enough to try and overthrow him. And how will the Devil
manage to persuade them it's even possible?

Back in my days as a kid, there was a saying going around that went like
this: "That man is so convincing he could sell refrigerators to the Eskimos".
Well; I would be very interested to know how the Devil is going to pull off
something very similar to that in his campaign to convince folks they'd be
better off with their own selves at the helm instead of Christ.

But you know, what it really all boils down to is control. There are folks who
just simply don't care to be governed by the likes of God; as it says in the
2nd Psalm:

"Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the
earth take their stand, and the rulers gather together against The Lord and
against his Anointed one. Let us break their chains-- they say --and throw
off their fetters."
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● Rev 20:11 . .Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on
it.

Him seated on the throne is of course Christ because God delegated His son
to handle Heaven's legal affairs.

● John 5:22-23 . . The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment
to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

● Acts 17:31 . . God has set a day when He will judge the world with justice
by the man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by
raising him from the dead.

Christ's crucifixion factors into justice for believers so that they need not fear
"the man" especially since it was himself who endured the cross for their
benefit.

● Rom 8:34-35 . . Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus who died? More
than that: who was raised to life, is at the right hand of God, and is also
interceding for us.

So then; were believers to stand before the great white throne, Jesus would
be conflicted because his obligation to them in a court of law is defense
rather than prosecution. Well; if he steps down to defend, then who's to
preside on the bench? No; I think we may safely assume that if believers
come to that event at all, they will come as spectators rather than
defendants.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
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[Jay Ross]

So then; were believers to stand before the great white throne, Jesus would be conflicted because his obligation to them in a court of law is defence

rather than prosecution. Well; if he steps down to defend, then who's to preside on the bench? No; I think we may safely assume that if believers
come to that event at all, they will come as spectators rather than defendants.​

What a warped understanding of the final judgement. Everybody is judged, even the saints. Some Saints believe that because they did things in Jesus' name that they are righteous, but Christ also responded to their pride with, "I do not know you."

Unless our name is in the Book of Life, then we will be dispatched into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death.

Unless we stand before Christ at the time of the Great White Throne Room Judgement, then no determination of our righteous as recorded in the Book of Life can be made by Christ. We all must stand before Christ. We cannot be spectators as you are suggesting.

 

[Truth7t7]

the heavenly hosts will be gathered together and imprisoned for many days, i.e., 376,250 days to await the time of their punishment.

It's 376,251 days you got it wrong

 

[Truth7t7]

What a warped understanding of the final judgement. Everybody is judged, even the saints. Some Saints believe that because they did things in Jesus' name that they are righteous, but Christ also responded to their pride with, "I do not know you."

They were never "Saints" as you suggest, they were never sealed by the Holy Spirit

There are many wolves in sheep's clothing claiming to be saints, nothing new

 

[Jay Ross]

It's 376,251 days you got it wrong

Only rounded the number of days to the nearest 10 days. The error is so small by your outcome that indicates that you are being very picky and a pain.

 

[Jay Ross]

They were never "Saints" as you suggest, they were never sealed by the Holy Spirit

There are many wolves in sheep's clothing claiming to be saints, nothing new

Another response where you are being picky without substantially changing the thrust of my post. Wolves often are posters who believe that they have great understanding of the scriptures.

 

[Truth7t7]

Only rounded the number of days to the nearest 10 days. The error is so small by your outcome that indicates that you are being very picky and a pain.

I was rounding mine by 11 days, it's really 376,262 days your still wrong

 

[Truth7t7]

Wolves often are posters who believe that they have great understanding of the scriptures.

How would you know?

 

[Truth7t7]

What a warped understanding of the final judgement. Everybody is judged, even the saints. Some Saints believe that because they did things in Jesus' name that they are righteous, but Christ also responded to their pride with, "I do not know you."

Unless our name is in the Book of Life, then we will be dispatched into the Lake of Fire which is the Second Death.

Unless we stand before Christ at the time of the Great White Throne Room Judgement, then no determination of our righteous as recorded in the Book of Life can be made by Christ. We all must stand before Christ. We cannot be spectators as you are suggesting.

Every believers work will be tried by the Lord's (Fire) and they will receive "Reward"

1 Corinthians 3:13-15KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Jay Ross]

I was rounding mine by 11 days, it's really 376,262 days your still wrong

Oh really! For you everybody else is wrong. This is what I screen cut from the Internet: -



If I was to be precise, then the number I should have used would have been 365,243 days. But this discussion is off topic from the thread title.