101G
Well-Known Member
never said he was separate, ok, lets take this one step at a time.
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".
taken what do "Form" here means?
Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
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Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".
taken what do "Form" here means?
Jesus BEING IN the FORM (SPIRIT BODY) of God.
Next Jesus TAKES upon HIS SPIRIT BODY FORM ....another FORM (BODY) as a MANS NATURAL BODY FORM.
Phil 2:
[7] .....took upon him the form (body) of a servant,
.........in the likeness of men:
[8] ....in fashion "as" a man...
Jesus; WithOUT "His reputation" seen by men; .Phil 2:7
Ie ...."SPIRIT BODY (FORM)"
Thought...it not robbery He to be equal with God,
Phil 2:6
In brief;
God has a SPIRITUAL BODILY FORM.
Gods Spiritual Bodily Form, can not be seen by mankind.
Jesus taking upon Himself a Human mans bodily Form, did not change Jesus, from BEING God.
Glory to God,
Taken
101G
Well-Known Member
First thanks for the reply. second, you said, "(SPIRIT BODY) of God". ????????. then you said, "
God has a SPIRITUAL BODILY FORM.
Gods Spiritual Bodily Form, can not be seen by mankind". well then how you know it's a "BODY?".
now, by your own words, Jesus is the SAME person who took on Flesh is this correct? if so then it's the SAME PERSON ONE and ONLY correct?
now keep in mind as to what you just said, before he took on flesh he was "Spirit".
"God...called by whatever name or title is the SAME One God"
now, knowing this Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
now taken, is this the same person who took on Flesh?
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
is this the SAME person in Isaiah 44:24, as in John 1:3, Yes or No?
now if you say no, then from your own statement ""God...called by whatever name or title is the SAME One God".
but if you say yes, it's the same PERSON, then you have two God, because one took on flesh and that leaves another.
your answer please.
It is both Oneness and the Trinity (the true Trinity: neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance)).
First of all, you must realize that the Spirit of Jesus is the Father:
God the Father is a Spirit:
Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
who dwells in all His fulness in the Person of Jesus Christ:
Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8, Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Jesus released His Spirit back to the Father (Him who inhabiteth eternity, the 1st Person of the Trinity):
Isa 57:15, For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Luk 23:46, And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
If you follow this carefully, you will see that the 3rd Person, who is released back to the 1st Person, is, in a sense, the Father (even a continuation of the 1st Person); only He has behind Him the experiential knowledge of having been human. I am saying that the Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as the Father; nevertheless it is also true that He proceedeth forth from the Father as a distinct individual from the Father
Jhn 15:26, But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
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What teacher have I attacked? I have not mentioned any names, and neither have I attacked any doctrine that defines itself as Trinitarian.
If in defining the Trinity accurately I am held to be attacking those who have taught it inaccurately, then that is like saying that a person who handles real money all day long is attacking a counterfeit dollar when he identifies it by saying that it does not feel like real money. Or even closer to the point, like saying that the person who gives real money to those discerners of counterfeit money so that they can discern it, is attacking counterfeit money.
I suppose that it is true in a sense.
However, I am not "willfully ignorant of" any "teachers that God has placed in the church". I am certainly willing to examine their point of view in light of the scriptures as I see them.
If there is anything in particular that you want me to read from authors that you hold in high regard, I will read what you have to give me if you will simply send me a link to the information.
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101G
Well-Known Member
there is ONE Spirit, and Jesus is that one Spirit, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty". Jesus is Lord
that just killed any trinity of any kind.
see above.
see above
see above
There is no first, second, or third person. there is only ONE PERSON, who hold the titles of "Father" and "Son".
I'll ask you the same question, is this the same person?,
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
now this,
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".
justbyfaith, is this the same person, YES or NO?
that will settle the First, second, and third of any Person.
your answer.
Yes, it is the same Person.
Nevertheless He is a Person distinct from the 1st; because He has the added nature of humanity in who He is.
The 1st Person dwells outside of time:
Isa 57:15, For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
The 2nd Person dwells in human flesh:
1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
The 3rd Person was released to the Father
Luk 23:46, And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
and then poured out on the early church on the day of Pentecost:
Act 2:1, And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2, And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3, And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4, And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
2Ti 1:14, That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
All three Persons of the Trinity are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God:
1Co 12:4, Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5, And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6, And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
Nevertheless He is a Person distinct from the 1st; because He has the added nature of humanity in who He is.
The 1st Person dwells outside of time:
Isa 57:15, For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
The 2nd Person dwells in human flesh:
1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
The 3rd Person was released to the Father
Luk 23:46, And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
and then poured out on the early church on the day of Pentecost:
Act 2:1, And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2, And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3, And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4, And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
2Ti 1:14, That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
All three Persons of the Trinity are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God:
1Co 12:4, Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5, And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6, And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
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So you are saying Christ had no free will? If He couldn't choose against sin, He is not our example. But scripture says He was tempted in all points just as we are with the choice to succumb, or resist. If Christ had any advantage over us, then as I said, He cannot be our example.
He was temptable in His humanity.
In His Deity He could not be tempted.
We cannot understand how these things worked themselves out within the Lord's psyche.
I would venture to say that there was no danger of the Lord succumbing to the temptations of the enemy; although He was truly tempted.
He would have felt the desire within His human flesh (see Matthew 4:2); but the God-aspect of who He is prevented Him from giving in to the temptation.
While the temptation was real, it was impossible that He would have actually succumbed to the pressure.
No, I did not say that.
Put FREEWILL in context.
Men have Freewill.
Angels have Freewill.
God is ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
God by contrast, to FREEWILL of (men and angels), God can ONLY CHOOSE TRUTH.
Heb 6:16
Men "swear by the greater" AND "oath".
This is telling you, a mans intent is to lean on God to HELP the man KEEP his word of Oath.
Heb 6:
[16] For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Heb 6:17
God is shewing the heirs of promise, Gods own "immutability" (which means UNCHANGING) of His OWN counsel.
His OWN "Counsel" IS, His OWN:
"WORD, TRUTH, POWER"...
(Lord God Almighty)
Heb 6:
[17] Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath.
Isa 45 [23] I have sworn by myself...
Rom 11:
[34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?
Not sure what you mean, "God couldn't "CHOOSE AGAINST" Sin.
God can not "CHOOSE"...for or against sin.
Point being, THERE IS NO "choice" in any matter for GOD TO "think" about should "He think, and weigh, and ponder".....
He IS absolute TRUTH, and can forever and always ONLY BE "absolute" TRUTH.
Christ Jesus is EXPRESSLY MY EXAMPLE.
He IS the TRUTH. He can NOT LIE.
A man CAN LIE. A man With the POWER of the TRUTH; a man can AVOID LYING, AVOID being a man AGAINST God, AVOID being a man who commits sin.
Thus ^^ that man,
would be made, FREED FROM SIN.
Rom 6
7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
^^ A man "crucified" is FREED FROM SIN.
Surely you have heard, men become "crucified" with Christ?
^ ^ THAT is a man "FREED FROM SIN", by and though the POWER of GOD, WHO IS Christ.
1 Cor 1
24] ...Christ the power of God...
Heb 6
[18] That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
God IS "Unchangable", He IS the TRUTH, and CAN NOT LIE.
TEMPTED...?
TEMPT, TEMPTED, TEMPTER, TEMPTATION...
Interesting WORDS....But MUST be understood IN CONTEXT...BY WHO is involved and the INTENT....and HOW one Responds.
TO TEMPT...requires a TEMPTER.
A TEMPTER...requires ANOTHER, TO HEAR, the TEMPTERS ...."IDEA".
The ONE "HEARING" the "TEMPTERS" "IDEA".....IS the one, being: called..."TEMPTED"
Did JESUS, "HEAR" the "BRIBE" of SATAN?
Yes.
So, DID Satan, "the TEMPTER"....
TEMPT Jesus?
Yes.
Do MEN, "HEAR" "TEMPTERS" "IDEAS" ?
Yes.
Would that mean, that that man had been "TEMPTED"
Yes.
Moving on to: "TEMPTATION."
What IS "TEMPTATION" ?
Temptation is WHEN, the TEMPTED, hears the "TEMPTERS" ideas...........AND..........
1) Considers DOING the Tempters idea.
2) DOES the Tempters idea.
^^ THAT IS 'the one who was TEMPTED"...
TO "FALL" into "TEMPTATION".
Did JESUS....consider Satan's IDEA?
No.
Did JESUS....do what was Satan's IDEA?
No.
WHY NOT?
Because that WOULD HAVE CAUSED, JESUS TO "FALL" into TEMPTATION.
Can THE TRUTH, FALL INTO "TEMPTATION" ?
WHY NOT?
Because "FALLING" INTO TEMPTATION, "IS" that WHICH IS AGAINST THE TRUTH. IT IS A LIE.
The TRUTH "can not stand AGAINST itself".
Did JESUS TEACH HOW TO" deal with, and AVOID, "FALLING INTO TEMPTATION" ?
BY HIS OWN EXAMPLE?
Yes.
How say you then, Jesus IS NOT our example?
USE your OWN "reasoning SKILLS" within Context of the "FACTS".
First...LOOK at what YOU said.
"I" (you individually speaking)
"OUR" (you individually speaking for others, and not by you having an others authority for you to speak for them).
1) FACT: Jesus is Absolute TRUTH.
2) FACT: Satan is A LIAR.
3) FACT: Men are LIARS.
An individual man HAS "FREEWILL" and
"3" "OPTIONS of choices...
An individual man...CAN HEAR, and make his own CHOICES, by what he HEARS and CHOOSES to "go along with."
1) A man can Choose to "go along with and trust" LIAR # 3....himself or another man;
(as his example)
2) A man can Choose to "go along with and trust" LIAR # 2 ... Satan (as his example)
3) A man can Choose to "go along with and trust" ABSOLUTE TRUTH # 1...Jesus (as his example.)
POINT BEING...A man is NOT LIMITED, in who the man CHOOSES (as his example) to follow, trust and go along with.
A man WHO HAS CHOSEN "JESUS" as his "example"....IS A man IN AGREEMENT, with the CHOICE, Scripture encourages a man "TO CHOOSE", FOR; the man to BE "WITH", Jesus.
IF "JESUS" is NOT the "EXAMPLE" you have "chosen"...: then "you" would be correct to say...."He is not your example"....
But you can not "say FOR OTHER men", "WHO HAVE CHOSEN JESUS AS "THEIR" EXAMPLE".....that Jesus, "is not "THEIR" example.
Glory to God,
Taken
Getting back to your comment. "FULLY DIE".
Begin with the FACTS.
Concerning "A MAN"...WHAT EXACTLY DID God CREATE 'AND' "sentence" TO DEATH?
God SENTENCED "TO DEATH";
A "FORM", which God called A "MAN", which is revealed in Scripture is called A "BODY".
A "FORMED BODY"......God Created.
The "FORM"...God called Man.
The "FORM"...God Created FROM Dust.
The "FORM"...Revealed IS a "FORMED BODY".
The "FORMED BODY"...IS a VESSEL.
The "BODY"...SHALL DIE.
The "BODY"...SHALL "return" to Dust.
Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground..
[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Job 33
[6] Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.
Isa 64
[8] But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Jer 18
[4] And the vessel that he made of clay...
2 Cor 4
[7] ..we ...earthen vessels..
Ecc 3:
[20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
No where DOES Scripture SAY....
Gods Breath comes from DUST or RETURNS to DUST.
No where DOES Scripture SAY....
Gods Spirit comes from DUST or RETURNS to DUST.
Scripture SPECIFICALLY Teaches...
The FORMED Bodily Man comes from DUST and RETURNS to DUST.
Your questioning was ABOUT "a FULL DEATH".
A "FULL DEATH" "FOR ALL MEN" is in regard to the FORMED BODIES..."OF" ALL men.
It is the "BODIES" of "ALL MEN" that "IS" sentenced to DEATH.
God Prepared a "BODY", FOR "JESUS" TO "FULLY" Give "THAT PURE BODY" unto "FULL DEATH" ...as an OFFERING...for the World
TO HAVE LIFE...."THROUGH Jesus OFFERING. ANY MAN IN THE WORLD..."WHO" would "FREELY CHOOSE", (by their own Freewill, TO CHOOSE)...to ACCEPT Jesus' "OFFER"....and thus "that individual man"....WOULD RECEIVE Jesus' OFFER..."of Eternal LIFE WITH God".
Our BODY IS GOING TO DIE, regardless of anything we do.
However God has ASKED US to OFFER "OUR" Body unto DEATH....(for Gods SAKE)...just as JESUS "OFFERED" His BODY unto DEATH....(for Gods SAKE)
AND WHAT IS ..... Gods SAKE?
"FOR" Gods SAKE, IS God BEING GLORIFIED, BY our choices, decisions, actions.
Was Jesus to OFFER, or Sacrifice HIS SOUL, (unto Death) HIS SPIRIT? (Unto Death) NO.
WAS...Jesus to OFFER HIS BODY (Unto Death) YES. AND DID He? YES.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,
Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
but
a bodyhast thou prepared me:
John 6
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Heb 10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the Offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
What DOES GOD ASK MEN TO GIVE UNTO DEATH? ----> THEIR BODY.
The EXACT SAME THING JESUS "our holy example" ----> GAVE UNTO DEATH.
Jesus' OFFERING, is a standing OFFER, for any man to ACCEPT Jesus' OFFERING.
ANY man WHO ACCEPTS Jesus' OFFERING; SHALL RECEIVE Jesus' OFFERING"
No.
"IN SIN", is an ACTIVE PARTICIPANT "OF" SIN.
"A man WHO HAS ACCEPTED Jesus' OFFER, HAS RECEIVED Jesus' OFFER"....
Such a man....has BECOME "FREED FROM SIN"...
His SIN is Forgiven, Forgotten, and the Indwelling Spirit of God...(which IS PURE LIGHT)...Covers the man INTERNALLY, that the man can SIN NO MORE AGAINST GOD).
It is PRECISELY SIN, that IS DARKNESS...
And it is PRECISELY, God WHO IS LIGHT...
Where there IS LIGHT; THER IS NO SIN.
A man WITH the SPIRIT OF GODS LIGHT "WITHIN HIM"....CAN NOT SIN.
Darkness CAN NOT "overpower" LIGHT.
LIGHT ALWAYS "overpowers" Darkness.
There IS NO Scripture that teaches ...
They WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED
Can BECOME made... un-sanctified .
Thus...NO....Men with the Spirit of God within them......are NOT 'IN" SIN.....they ARE "IN" the Spirit of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
' ... Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith,
"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
but a body hast thou prepared me:... "'
(Hebrews 10:5/Psalm 40:6,7)
Hello @justbyfaith,
I am more and more convinced that only God's Word itself can be trusted to explain itself: that our own reasoning, no matter how much we endeavour to abide by what is actually written, can only muddy the waters.
I have read your opening posts, and see nothing wrong with your summations, but none-the-less still think it best to let God's Word speak without any intrusion of human reasoning. This is why I object to creeds of man's making, and refuse to put my name to any of them, no matter how seemingly sound.
Looking through other forums, I have noticed that the subject of Trinity is a frequent cause of debate, and that it is fiecely defended on both sides of the argument. I find this sad, for God should not be the subject of debate, but of worship, don't you think?
What I also find unjustifiable is to call into question the faith of anyone who has an opposing view, for it is not for us to point the finger of accusation at someone for whom Christ has died, and who acknowledges Him as their Saviour and Lord.
Please accept my thoughts, and know assuredly that no comment within them is to be taken personally, for I speak objectively.
Both you, and those who stand opposed to your reasoning in the opening entries of this thread feel justified in holding the opinions expressed, and only God's Word can be the arbiter as to who is right.
May He be honoured and glorified among us
For His Name and glory's sake.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee:
let such as love thy salvation say continually,
The LORD be magnified.'
(Psa 40:16)
"Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
but a body hast thou prepared me:... "'
(Hebrews 10:5/Psalm 40:6,7)
Hello @justbyfaith,
I am more and more convinced that only God's Word itself can be trusted to explain itself: that our own reasoning, no matter how much we endeavour to abide by what is actually written, can only muddy the waters.
I have read your opening posts, and see nothing wrong with your summations, but none-the-less still think it best to let God's Word speak without any intrusion of human reasoning. This is why I object to creeds of man's making, and refuse to put my name to any of them, no matter how seemingly sound.
Looking through other forums, I have noticed that the subject of Trinity is a frequent cause of debate, and that it is fiecely defended on both sides of the argument. I find this sad, for God should not be the subject of debate, but of worship, don't you think?
What I also find unjustifiable is to call into question the faith of anyone who has an opposing view, for it is not for us to point the finger of accusation at someone for whom Christ has died, and who acknowledges Him as their Saviour and Lord.
Please accept my thoughts, and know assuredly that no comment within them is to be taken personally, for I speak objectively.
Both you, and those who stand opposed to your reasoning in the opening entries of this thread feel justified in holding the opinions expressed, and only God's Word can be the arbiter as to who is right.
May He be honoured and glorified among us
For His Name and glory's sake.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee:
let such as love thy salvation say continually,
The LORD be magnified.'
(Psa 40:16)
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Christianity is the only religion that worships God in trinity. It is the main characteristic that separates us from all other religions. It is the one doctrine that breaks down the walls of division throughout Christendom. But you reject the trinity, divide yourself off from the rest of Christendom, and are more like Islam in your reckoning of God.
Who is Jesus speaking of here?
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22–23) (KJV 1900)
This profile fits Charismatic churches since mainstream churches do not prophesy and cast out of demons. And who does it fit more than any other church than Oneness? Who rejects the main identifying doctrine of Christianity and as a result is more like Islam in their understanding of God.
Disagree.
TEMPTING is the act of ONE toward ANOTHER.
God was TEMPTED, BY others.
Jesus was TEMPTED, By others.
God, Nor Jesus (appearing in the likeness as a man)....FELL INTO TEMPTATION.
Which is to say....God nor Jesus...
Considered, or Did...what the TEMPTERS had suggested.
"The one BEING Tempted, has nothing to do with "Humanity OR Diety".
It has to DO with....ACCEPTING the TEMPTERS suggestion...or NOT.
Clearly God WHO IS DIETY revealed men HAD TEMPTED "Him".
Numb 14
22] Because all those menwhich have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted menow these ten times,and have not hearkened to my voice;
Glory to God,
God Bless,
Taken
I don't know why you keep insisting on this...apparently you don't understand that what I have preached is the word of the Lord concerning the Trinity...but because it doesn't fit into the little box that is your conception of it, you reject the Trinity as it is presented by the scriptures.
Mar 16:17, And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18, They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
The people in Matthew 7:21-23 are people who were trusting not in the finished work of Jesus Christ for their salvation; but rather in their own works; while they were committing iniquity on the side.
It should be clear from the scripture that I have presented, that these signs shall follow those that believe: therefore doing these kinds of works does not exclude theses kinds of churches from salvation...the thing that brought condemnation to the people mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23 was that they placed their trust in the fact that they were doing these kinds of works, as though they were saved because of that.
They failed to remember the real source of their salvation...faith in what Jesus did for them on the Cross...1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
In relying on a different source they failed to keep the salvation that was given to them.
However, if someone does the works that are spoken of, it does not exclude them from salvation....in fact, it is the sign that they really and truly believe...and therefore, if their trust paradigm doesn't shift, they are definitely subjects of the kingdom.
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You redefine the trinity according to your heretical views, and then insist you believe it. But your view of the trinity is as false as the idol you claim to worship in Christ's name.
And where does Jesus, (or any of the writers of the NT), say this? Where in the scriptures is it written? Where does it say that it is so written in any person's heart by the Holy Spirit?
Just stating a fact that Christianity is the only religion that is trinitarian in the worship of God. This is the result of several debates in the early church where the final outcomes proved beyond challenge that (1) There is only one God. (2) The Father is God. (3) The Son is God. (4) The Holy Spirit is God. (5) The Father is not the Son. (6) The Son is the not the Holy Spirit. (7) The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
They also proved in the final outcome in the debates, Jesus Christ is God as far as his Spirit, with a fully human nature and a fully divine nature. If you couple this to the trinity doctrine, Jesus is the triune God, speaking in the second person of the trinity as the Son of God. But at times he spoke through his human limitations as the Son of man.
And so then according to the result of those debates which occurred centuries before either of us were born naturally, our faith should be determined? Were those debaters whose names are without references unknown or unremembered by most of us then so flawless in their conclusions? Were they without doubt led always by the Holy Spirit so as to require us to follow them without considering more closely anything else?
Consider what Apostle Paul wrote here:
"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1
While he wanted us to follow him he also warned us to do so only as he followed Jesus. I certainly know less of those men who drew those conclusions you advise people to accept rather than to follow for ourselves what Paul wrote to us or what the Holy Spirit inspired men to write. According to what is written they were inspired, but what do I know about the inspiration of those debaters you would have us support?
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" II Tim 3:16
Inspired writing, but is it not an uninterpreted message from God without the Holy Spirit to open our eyes to see and our ears to hear?
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The debates were over what the bible says. They didn't add or take away from scripture. They stated clearly what scripture says about God, Christ, Sin, and Christ's humanity. If you study the "ecumenical creeds" you will see all that took place.
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