True Trinity.

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Enoch111

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This is a very long post.
That indicates a very weak position. So as a geometric axiom "The length of a post is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to its merit".:cool:

Here's a doozy: "God the Father descended to become a Man and later ascended as that Man to sit upon the throne at the Father's right hand."

So the Father sits at the right hand of the Father. Brilliant! Anyone hear about Schroedinger's Cat? Verschränkung.
 
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bbyrd009

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The commandment “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them” forbids the worship of God by images or similitudes. Many claim that their images are mere figures or symbols by which the Lord God was worshiped, but God has declared such worship to be sin

The commandment “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me”, lays out that God is alone entitled to supreme reverence and worship. Man is forbidden to give to any other object the first place in his affections or his service
^
read it and weep ladies
 

justbyfaith

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Let us be certain that we do not engage in the worshiping of angels, Colossians 2:18.
 

JustAskin

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What is the final end for Jesus in scriptures?
Is it not to be seated as king over the created world?

If Jesus is Almighty God, is he not already king over the created world?
If Jesus is Almighty God, what purpose is there for him ‘acquiring’ the throne of David as a reward for his mighty work?

The term, ‘Son of God’ has no relevance to being ‘Born’ as an offspring of Almighty God.
Almighty God does not procreate. He only CREATES.

  • The HOLY Angels are ‘Sons of God’
  • Jesus is ‘Son of God’.
  • Adam WAS Son of God.
Question:What is the link between them that makes them ‘Sons of God’?
Answer: They all DUTIFULLY carry/Carried out THE WORKS OF ALMIGHTY GOD. Indeed, the definition in spiritual terms of ‘Son of God’ is:
  • ‘He who does the works of the Father’ (The Father is Almighty God)
The Holy and sinless Angels faithfully and completely carry out all tasks assigned to them by almighty God, the Father.

Jesus, the LAST ADAM, a man born holy and sinless in the manner of the FIRST Adam, faithfully and absolutely carried out all the tasks assigned to him by the almighty God, the Father. He told this to the Jews: ‘If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me’. Also, ‘I can do [and say] only what I have see and was taught to me by my Father...the words I speak are NOT MINE but those of HIM who sent me’ (paraphrased). The miracles Jesus performed were carried out THROUGH HIM after he prayed FOR the Holy Spirit FROM the Father (‘Father, I know you always hear me when I pray to you [privately] but I pray openly now so those standing by [at Lazarus’ grave] know it is by YOUR POWER that this resurrection is taking place’ (paraphrased). Jesus said that in time to come WE would do what he did... in fact, we will do ‘...Greater things than these’. If Jesus were God then how are we to be doing what God does, yeah, EVEN GREATER THINGS than Almighty God...!!

Adam WAS ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38). In the time of his CREATION and before he sinned he sinless and Holy and carried out all works that Almighty God assigned him in faith and completely. He fell away from being ‘Son of God’ when sinned. A second, and Last Adam was CREATED to takes his place: Jesus.. born of the Holy Spirit as was Adam (‘...God blew into him the breath of life [holy spirit] and the man (lifeless...!!) BECAME A LIVING SOUL’. Jesus: the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary to ENLIVEN the inert EGG in her to start the embryonic process in Mary. ‘Therefore, the child to be born... SHALL BE called Son of the God most high...!’.
 
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justbyfaith

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Again, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

And no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And Jesus Christ of Nazareth is indeed the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).
 
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JustAskin

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‘Lord’ is SIMPLY a title for a great person worthy to be venerated. ‘Lord’ is by no means equable to ‘God’ (itself a Title) even though a God can also be called ‘Lord’.
It is like calling an important person, ‘Sir’. That persons HIGHER TITLE might be Prince or Duke, or majesty or King... but that person can be referenced as ‘Sir’:
  • ‘My king, I put it to you that the treasury is low. Sir, I advocate gathering greater taxes’
Jesus is never called by any higher title than ‘Lord’ (‘Lord Jesus Christ’) in his ordinary life.
When REFERRED TO as ‘The mighty God’, The Eternal Father’, it must be understood that these are FUTURE (end time) PROPHESIES. Jesus SHALL indeed be ‘Eternal Father’ ... when he ‘Gives Eternal Life To...’ those whom he judges worthy at the judgement seat at the end of time.

Remember that ‘Father’ means (for Jesus):
  • He that GIVES LIFE to... (Worthy men!)
  • He that is the Head of... (The church!)
  • He that brings into being... (The new world order with mankind as his counsellors)
In contrast, Almighty God:
  • Gave life to ALL that has life in it by means of HIS Holy Spirit (His POWER and Authority
  • Is the creator, he appoints his Angels as his counsellors (contrast with Jesus)
  • Is the Head of ALL whom are CALLED Lords, Kings, yeah, even GODS!
Jesus was destined for kingship, this was the purpose of the anointing... this is how kings of the Hebrews/Israelites were ‘set apart’ for their FUTURE ROLE. Either for Kingship or Priesthood... Jesus was anointed at the river Jordan for both Kingship AND High Priesthood (He BECOMES King, and High Priest of God Most High.

Jesus Becomes ‘The Morning Star’, the leading light before Almighty God: the Father... Lucifer (or [the] Satan, if you like) WAS the Morning Star before Almighty God but sinned. I have a lot more to say along these lines but this post is not the place.

Almighty God never BECOMES... Almighty God ’IS’...(which is embedded in the name, YHWH). Notice that Jesus ALSO Acquires the name, ‘YHWH’, AFTER he is accomplished in heaven at the end of time (Revelation). He becomes and remains eternally an ‘IS’, an immutable Being like Almighty God (Not IS almighty God... LIKE unto Almighty God)
Almighty God does not DENY that there are other ones whom are CALLED ‘God’ (Gods) because, again, ‘God’ is just a TITLE. Anyone who is given such high reverential status AND WORSHIP (legal or illegal, real or metaphorical) can be called [a] God:
  • A chess grand master can be called a God of Chess (He who is greatest among his peers and the highest at his task)
  • A judge can be said to be a God in his courtroom (he who’s rules and laws must be followed)
  • A Father in a household (Jewish style at least) is said to be God of the household (he who should be obeyed!!)
So, I please ask all responders, readers, seekers of truth, and lovers of righteousness in belief of the one Almighty God, and in Jesus [the] Christ, whom he sent, that you understand in context the meaning of the NAME (YHWH) and the TITLES (God, Lord, Christ (Anointed), etc) so that wrongful cross-corruption of interpretations do not occur.
For instance, again, ‘Immanuel’, a TITLE, is not claiming that it’s MEANING of ‘God with us’ is a literal. One can say, ‘I am with you’, yet be miles apart. Jesus says, just before he left the apostles, ‘I am with you always’. He obviously did not mean, ‘in person, in body, in actuality’, but rather, ‘In Spirit’. So, also, Immanuel is ‘God is with us in spirit’. And this follows from God telling us that he WOULD send a Saviour (His SERVANT whom will do his will). Surely you cannot believe that Almighty God sent HIMSELF to do his own will and then claim it was another, indeed, himself as a SERVANT - to whom is Almighty God a Servant?
 
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justbyfaith

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‘Lord’ is SIMPLY a title for a great person worthy to be venerated. ‘Lord’ is by no means equable to ‘God’ (itself a Title) even though a God can also be called ‘Lord’.

Truly, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
 

justbyfaith

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No one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).

And truly, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).
 

tigger 2

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For instance, again, ‘Immanuel’, a TITLE, is not claiming that it’s MEANING of ‘God with us’ is a literal. One can say, ‘I am with you’, yet be miles apart. Jesus says, just before he left the apostles, ‘I am with you always’. He obviously did not mean, ‘in person, in body, in actuality’, but rather, ‘In Spirit’. So, also, Immanuel is ‘God is with us in spirit’. And this follows from God telling us that he WOULD send a Saviour (His SERVANT whom will do his will). Surely you cannot believe that Almighty God sent HIMSELF to do his own will and then claim it was another, indeed, himself as a SERVANT - to whom is Almighty God a Servant?


Personal names (including 'Immanuel')

Many trinitarians will tell you that, since the personal name “Jesus” (probably “Yehoshua” in Hebrew) means “Jehovah is Salvation” (or “Jehovah Saves”), then Jesus is Jehovah.

If that were true, then all the other people in the Bible whose names had that same meaning (which includes all those named “Jesus,” “Joshua,” “Jeshuah,” “Isaiah,” etc.) are also Jehovah!

It is very interesting that Joshua was originally named ‘Hoshea’ (“Salvation” - p. 303, Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, Bethany House Publ.), but Moses began to call him ‘Joshua’ (Yehoshua: ‘Jehovah is Salvation’ or ‘Jehovah the Savior’ - p. 358; “[Jehovah] Saves” - Young’s Concordance; Jehovah Saved” - Strong’s Concordance) at a certain point. - Numbers 13:8, 16. Obviously Moses meant in no way to imply that Hoshea had become Jehovah!)

(Notice that the actual name for “Joshua” in the NT Greek (and the Septuagint) is identical to the name for “Jesus": Iesous. See Heb. 4:8 and compare Heb. 6:20 in the NT Greek portion of a New Testament Greek-English interlinear Bible. Also see Acts 7:45 and compare Acts 16:7 and Matt. 26:51.)

Not only that, but hundreds of others with names similar to “Elijah” (“God Jehovah”), “Abijah” (“Father Jehovah”), “Eliathah” (“God is Come” - Young’s; “God Has Come” - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 929, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984; and Today‘s Dictionary of the Bible, Bethany House, p. 674), “Jehu” (“Jehovah is He” - Today’s Dictionary of the Bible; Strong’s Concordance; Young’s Concordance; and Gesenius), etc. are also obviously not Jehovah Himself!


It is certain that many (if not most) of the personal names of God’s people had meanings which were meant to honor God, not to glorify the person who bore that personal name. (Remember this when analyzing Isaiah 9:6.)


Immanuel

Should Jesus really be considered to be God because he was symbolically “named” Immanuel (Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23) which means “God [is] with us”? No more so than Gabriel was calling himself God when he visited Mary and declared: “The Lord is with thee” - Luke 1:28. Nor did Zacharias mean that John the Baptizer (his new son) was actually God when he was asked, “I wonder what this child [John] will turn out to be?”, and he answered, “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them.” - Luke 1:66-68, LB.

Gabriel and Zacharias (Zechariah) meant exactly what Israelites have meant throughout thousands of years when saying “God is with us” and similar statements. They meant “God has favored us” or “God is helping us”! - Joshua 1:17; 1 Samuel 10:7; 2 Chron. 15:2-4, 9 (cf., Jer. 1:8; Haggai 1:13).

This understanding is seen throughout the Bible. For example, “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.” - 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, RSV.

Or, in a Psalm many of us apply to ourselves or our friends:

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me - ASV.


The widely acclaimed trinitarian Bible dictionary, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Vol. 2, pp. 86, 87, states:

“The name Emmanuel [or Immanuel] which occurs in Isa. 7:14 and 8:8 means lit. ‘God [is] with us’ .... In the context of the times of Isaiah and King Ahaz the name is given to a child as yet not conceived with the promise that the danger now threatening Israel from Syria and Samaria will pass ‘before the child knows how to refuse evil and choose the good.’ Thus, the child and its name is a sign of God’s gracious saving presence among his people .... [The name Emmanuel] could be a general statement that the birth and naming of the special child will indicate that the good hand of God is upon us.” - p. 86. And, “The point of the present passage [Matt. 1:23] is to see in the birth of Jesus a saving act of God, comparable with the birth of the first Emmanuel. Both births signify God’s presence with his people through a child.” - p. 87.

Or as noted trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris tells us:

“Matthew [in Matt. 1:23] is not saying, ‘Someone who is “God” is now physically with us,’ but ‘God is acting on our behalf in the person of Jesus.’” - p. 258, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.[/QUOTE]
 
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JustAskin

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justbyfaith, you are conflating one thing against itself. ‘Lord’ is just a TITLE ... it is not an absolute individual. It is applied to Jesus [the] Christ in THIS CONTEXT as pertaining to him as ‘Master’.

Almighty God is also referred to as ‘Lord’ (“The Lord God Almighty”). This leads to just another trinitarian error wherein they say that Jesus is God because both he and the Father are both called ‘Lord’... this is ridiculous and false - a misrepresentation and desperation of ideology.

Our ‘Master’ is NOW JESUS. In times past, Almighty God was our MASTER: ‘The Father has passed ALL THINGS INTO HIS HANDS’... He, Jesus, is now our Lord... the Father REMAINS our one and only GOD.

justbyfaith, remember Jesus’ own words:
  • ‘Father, ... this means [everlasting] that they should believe in YOU, the ONE TRUE GOD, and in Jesus Christ, WHOM YOU SENT’
And from the Apostles:
  • “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Phil 1:2)
The title, ‘God’, is greater than the title, ‘Lord’.
 

justbyfaith

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‘Lord’ is just a TITLE ... it is not an absolute individual.

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).

it is not an absolute individual. It is applied to Jesus [the] Christ in THIS CONTEXT as pertaining to him as ‘Master’.

Almighty God is also referred to as ‘Lord’ (“The Lord God Almighty”).

Jesus and the Father are one.

He, Jesus, is now our Lord... the Father REMAINS our one and only GOD.

The Father is also the only Lord of heaven and earth (Ephesians 4:5; Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

justbyfaith, remember Jesus’ own words:
  • ‘Father, ... this means [everlasting] that they should believe in YOU, the ONE TRUE GOD, and in Jesus Christ, WHOM YOU SENT’

And from the Apostles:
  • “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Phil 1:2)

In both verses, the Greek word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even".
 
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bbyrd009

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Jesus is the Father in His Spirit, John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11.
the first one does not go near your point, and the second has other valid interps? Plus there is copious other Scripture to argue against your point here? Why do you insist on a literal interpretation when a spiiritual one is so plainly indicated, jbf? How do you respond to Why do you call Me good? That they may be one, as we are one, He who does the will of Yah is the son of Yah, Even greater things will you do, and even your first ref, which you have inserted Jesus into when it literally says "Father?" Why do you worship your High Priest?
 
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bbyrd009

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this completely distorts the meaning of I am in the Father, the Father in Me and even denies its other, valid, spiritual meanings, dont you think? Jesus is reduced to an Icon of Worship, and has entered the pantheon (as Apollos surely)
 
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justbyfaith

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the first one does not go near your point, and the second has other valid interps?

The first one tells us that the Father is a Spirit, the second one tells us that the Spirit dwelling in Jesus is the Father, if you take into account the first.

What other interpretations are valid in your opinion? I'm interested in knowing.

He who does the will of Yah is the son of Yah,

chapter and verse?

Why do you worship your High Priest?

Because He is the Lord God.
 
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