And according to three different apostles, God Guarantees endurance of belief to all those whom he has chosen.
I will show you what the Apostles actually taught; though, I am not sure I know who the other two Apostles are that you speak of.
The Christians are admonished to
remain in the faith to be saved:
1 Peter 1:9 (ENIV) 9 for you are receiving the
end result of
your faith, the
salvation of your souls.
2 Peter 1:8-11 (WEB) 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten {{{
the cleansing from his old sins}}}. 10 Therefore, {{{
brothers and
sisters}}},
be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For
if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11
For thus you will be richly supplied with the
entrance into the Eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 3:17 (WEB) 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked,
you fall from your own steadfastness.
None of the Apostles taught that God guarantees that we will endure in the faith to the end; rather, they teach that the responsibility to endure in the faith is completely upon each
Christian. All these Passages from
all the Apostolic Writers of the NT are warnings and admonition
for Christians, not false believers.
Revelation 3:11 (
Lord Jesus Instructing His disciples) 11
Hold firmly that which you have, so that
no one takes your crown.
Matthew 24:11-13 (
Lord Jesus Instructing His disciples) 11 Many false prophets will arise and will
lead many astray. 12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But
he who endures to the end will be saved.
Luke 21:19 (
Lord Jesus Instructing His disciples)19 By
your endurance you will
win your lives.
Luke 21:34-36 (
Lord Jesus Instructing His disciples) 36 Therefore,
be watchful all the time,
praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to
stand before the Son of Man.”
James 1:12-16 (
James instructing the Church) 12 Blessed is a person who
endures temptation, for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love him... 16
Do not be deceived, my
beloved brothers.
1 Timothy 4:16 (
Paul admonishing Timothy) 16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching.
Continue in these things, for
in doing this you will
save yourself and
those who hear (listen to) you.
Jude 1:21 (
Jude instructing the Church)
Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ
to eternal life.
1 John 1:24-25 (
John admonishing the Church) 24 Therefore, as for you,
let that remain in you which you heard from the beginning. If that which you heard from the beginning
remains in you, you also will
remain in the Son, and in the Father. 25 This is
The Promise which he promised
us [
those who remain in the faith],
the Eternal Life.
The faith being discussed is
not a false faith, but a genuine faith – {{{
THE}}} Faith. “
THE” is a
definite article, showing that the faith being discussed is the
genuine faith of the Gospel.
1 Timothy 1:19 (
Paul Instructing Timothy) 19 “
holding faith and a good conscience, which some having thrust away “
made a shipwreck” (Greek: enauagēsan) concerning {{{
the faith}}}”
1 Timothy 4:1 (
Paul Instructing Timothy and his Church) 1 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will
fall away from {{{
the faith}}}, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons
1 Timothy 6:20 (
Paul Instructing Timothy and his Church) 1Timothy, guard that which is committed to you,
turning away from the empty chatter and oppositions of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some profess, and thus have
wandered from {{{the faith}}}.
Can you answer this question by the Apostle Paul?
Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? ...... [See again "Romans 10:14-21"]
The word "by" does not always indicate a cause. Some events are coincident. Contrary to what some might think, Paul is not suggesting that faith is the means by which we attain the Spirit. Rather, Paul is saying that God gives us the Spirit and works miracles among us on the occasion of "a hearing*" which we believe. Our faith is not the cause of our being granted the Spirit; Our faith is the result of our being granted the Spirit, and it typically occurs at "a hearing."
Very poor attempt to make God's Word say just the opposite of what it actually states. I never quoted
Galatians 3:5, so your argument is invalid.
A person receives the Holy Spirit by believing, period.
We receive the Spirit by faith, not so we can believe
John 7:37-38 (WEB) 38
He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from
within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about
the Spirit, which
those believing in him were to receive.
Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, having
heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation - in whom,
having also believed,
you were sealed with the
promised Holy Spirit
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing
of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the
promise of the Spirit {{{
through faith}}}.
By believing we receive the Spirit. You believe we must receive the Spirit so we can believe, but that is not what the Scriptures teach.
I quote you:
CadyandZoe said: We don't have the power to believe and remain which is why God must pour out his Spirit into our hearts. We must be born again, and he is the agent of our rebirth, not us.
Your doctrine does not even make sense. Why would God harden someone when they already cannot believe unless the being indwelt by the Holy Spirit???
Here is what you wrote in your latest post to me:
CadyandZoe said: Our faith is not the cause of our being granted the Spirit; Our faith is the result of our being granted the Spirit, and it typically occurs at "a hearing."
If you grant me another look you will see that I was talking about the power "to believe and remain." I meant for the reader to take them as a pair. We are talking about the apostolic teaching concerning endurance in faith. We want to know why some remain while others fall away. According to the Apostles, the situation that accounts for endurance is divine super intention.
You did not mean that at all.
You clearly explain what you meant in your latest post, as follows.
CadyandZoe said: Our faith is not the cause of our being granted the Spirit; Our faith is the result of our being granted the Spirit, and it typically occurs at "a hearing."
So, now you are saying that the Spirit does not give us the power to believe? All along, including in your recent posts, you were saying God is the creator of our faith and all our choices, and for the destiny he already predestined for us. Now, after all this argument, you want to deny it all, as if by amnesia.
We all deserve it. The difficulty you face is explaining why it is okay for God to prevent someone from repenting and exclude them from redemption.
That was sufficiently explained. God desires to have mercy on all (
Romans 11:32), just like God did with Israel all through Israel's history. However, God's patience has limits, just as God explains in His dealing with Israel. Paul's use of the "Potter and the Clay" is the same as God's use of it in Jeremiah 18, although Paul does not give the details in that section of Romans 9, but if you keep reading Romans 9 (
See: Romans 9:30-33, and Romans 1:22-28), you will see that it was the Jew's continued lack of faith that caused God to harden them.
God gives us reasons why he forms someone for noble or ignoble purpose, and that all depends on whether the sinner will resist or repents (
Jeremiah 18:1-12;
2 Timothy 2:19-22).
