Two Verses Two Words

[Wayne Murray]

Two Verses Two WordsChrist speaking:Matt.24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Matt.24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.earthquakesG4578 seismos (sice-mos') From G4579; a commotion, that is, (of the air) a gale, (of the ground) an earthquake: - earthquake, tempest.G4579 seio (si'-o) Apparently a primary verb; to rock (vibrate, properly sideways or to and fro), that is, (generally) to agitate (in any direction; cause to tremble); figuratively to throw into a tremor (of fear or concern): - move, quake, shake.The subject determines the word (seismos). If the subject is the air, it means a gale or tempest. If the subject is the ground, it means earthquake. Not limited to the air and ground (seismos) can mean a commotion of many things, which cause concern.sorrowsG5604 odin (o-deen') Akin to G3601; a pang or throe, especially of childbirth: - pain, sorrow, travail.The word (odin) means the birth pangs or contractions of childbirth which get closer together right up to delivery.In diverse places, there shall be commotion the obvious signs of birth. The birth pangs of a new dispensation and the contractions are getting closer together.Some significant events have been happening around the globe with terms such as: El Ni·ño, hundred year flood, volcanic eruption, earthquake, tsunami, hurricane, and tornado. Nothing new under the sun but the frequency of these events is getting closer together.

 

[Christina]

I read a very intersting study on birthpangs not long ago Wayne in the Hebrew it is even more explict there actully stages of labour each being worse than the previous and building in intenseityin the last stages of Labour the is hardly no time betwen pains as soon as one ends another starts and each last longer and is harder than the previous the very end stage in a delivery room are called Bare down pains. God is very good to us with his symbolic explanations into his deeper truths.This is when its time to bare down make sure your gospel armour is on and your in his Word.It was a Jewish study Ill see if I can find it

 

[Christina]

A Jewish Study--------------Labor pains are the indication of impending birth This is a sign of the beginning of the geulah,(the process of Redemtion) as is known, but it is specifically after finishing the time of pregnancy, which is at the end of nine months. Although she is pregnant before this, and has painful contractions, these are not called labor pains, because labor pains are only right before the onset of the actual birth. The birthpangs come upon her in order to bring about the birth, and they are the sign that the time has arrived for birth; but as long as she still isn't undergoing birthpangs, she won't be able to give birth because it means that time of birth still hasn't arrived because the duration of the pregnancy hasn't been completed. We find that the matter of the birthpangs is specifically to bring about the birth, after the completion of the time of pregnancy. Pregnancy is the opposite of birth, because pregnancy is confinement and concealment of the baby in the womb of its mother, specifically in the higher part of the womb during the last three months, as is known. At the time of birth, it turns over and goes out from the higher part of the womb to the lower part in order to come out and be revealed. This is leaving the narrow strait which presses the baby out, which requires birthpangs. The birthpangs do the opposite of birth, but specifically through them is the birth accomplished. Birthpangs seem to be the opposite of birth As is known, birthpangs are a strong, gripping pain on the sides of the baby to make it come out, which is the main part of the pain. But is is specifically through this that there is the strength and ability for birth, and that is why the birthpangs are called "mashber" ("crisis") like "the one who sits on the mashber (birthing stone)". It is at the moment of Israel's distress in the days of Yechezkiya, king of Yehuda who was beseiged by Sancheriv, king of Ashur, as is known. So it is regarding the birthpangs of Moshiach(messiah)--that close to his coming there will be the upheaval , which is the opposite of redemption, similar to birthpangs. But specifically through this upheaval will come the strength of the geulah,(process of redemtion) which is called birth. All this is because the geulah is the opposite of exile, because exile is the ultimate concealment (the level of pregnancy) and the geulah is the level of birth. Thus, birthpangs are required to bring about the geulah (redemtion) because they are the main things which facilitate the birth. Why is birth accomplished through its opposite? We must understand why the birth is brought about by something which is its opposite, referring to the birthpangs which are specifically right before the birth. Similarly the level of the strait of the golus and the enslavement that is right before the geulah, which is the sign of the beginning of the geulah, as the verse "eis tzora l'Yaakov u-mimena yevashea", "it is a time of trouble for Yaakov,(time of Jacobs trouble) and from this he will be saved". Clarity results from the battle between opposites (left and right) [Summary: clarity is a result of the refining process of the generation of an idea from the right side and the attempt to demolish it from the left side. This goes back and forth until the the idea is clarified to a center point where it raises no objections from the left side. Then the same back-and-forth process occurs in the emotions, resulting in its clarification in the center point. Similarly, the same left/right dynamic occurs in the realm of action--how is this idea to be actualized.] The purpose of obstacles Obstacles increase the urgency to reach the goal (as a river narrows, its speed increases). like the war of Gog before the coming of the great day (like the gloom of morning before the first rays of dawn), as it states "it is a time of trouble" to Yaakov, and specifically from this will he be saved--that the birthpangs bring about the birth because they generate strength for birth. Gestation is the concealment of the baby in the upper chamber and then he turns over and comes out, as birth is brought about by something that is its opposite, right at the same time. [Like the river, gaining speed through as it narrows], the strength for giving birth comes specifically from the birthpangs...thus it is understood that on the supernal level of "birth" of the collective entity of Jewish souls (which are in the belly of Malchus the entire time of exile) the birthpangs arise to give the strength for birth. That is to say, specifically at the end, right before the time of birth -- which is the time of the coming of Moshaich -- that is when she begins to cry out from the birthpangs, which are the troubles for Israel from which she will be saved, and this is the sign of the beginning of the redemption.

 

[Wayne Murray]

Interesting kriss, thank you.Jacob's trouble really caught my eye.Jerusalem must be the vagina, but what about the water breaking?

 

[Christina]

I dont know is this the living water, in a spiritual sense or is it Waters as many nations and peoples? Perhaps the flood /Satan's flood of lies? Water most normally breaks toward the onset to mid way of Labour and once it breaks the pains get much worseand the birth is imminet (can not be stopped)Some thought required here

 

[Wayne Murray]

(kriss;35534)
I dont know is this the living water, in a spiritual sense or is it Waters as many nations and peoples? Perhaps the flood /Satan's flood of lies? Water most normally breaks toward the onset to mid way of Labour and once it breaks the pains get much worseand the birth is imminet (can not be stopped)Some thought required here
The flood of lies has been and is happening right now.Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. Satan (serpent) cast out of his mouth "water" as a flood. What is symbolized by water in Revelation?Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the w h o r e sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. So even if Satan is not here defacto, he has been here spiritually with overspreading wings of deceit.What about the tsunami of 2004?Did the water break then for the birth of a new age?

 

[bytheway]

Actually He's taking His people back into the womb, a womb like existance where all is provided, all is peacefull and we don't know a single thing but Him....in Christ. The way is narrow and hard. Think John 3. Taking us back to pure innocence....the garden....truly born again! The ark that Noah built is made of wood (Type of man) sealed with pitch (blood of Jesus) and on and on and on........we must go back in order to go forward!

 

[Wayne Murray]

(bytheway;35701)
Actually He's taking His people back into the womb, a womb like existance where all is provided, all is peacefull and we don't know a single thing but Him....in Christ. The way is narrow and hard. Think John 3. Taking us back to pure innocence....the garden....truly born again! The ark that Noah built is made of wood (Type of man) sealed with pitch (blood of Jesus) and on and on and on........we must go back in order to go forward!
By the way, by the way, your lack of knowledge continues to impress me.Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[bytheway]

Aha! We meet again. Please allow this ignorant pilgram to approach your loftiness. Since you chose to respond in part to the chat that Jesus and Nic had only, may I suggest that Nicodemus was a ruler of the Jews, in our venacular, a Church man. He knew of the Lord. My point as far as that goes is conversion and the new birth are not the same event. As to the womb reference, the Kingdom of God realized is as it is in the womb, brand new, beginning afresh. Got to go back in order to go forward. (this should be good).