What and when is the rapture part two?

[farouk]

Means to me, God is Faithful.
Means to you, God is Deceptive.



* It was The Son of man that came to Earth; Humbled.
* While ON Earth, The Son of man, was Revealed, IS the Son of God, IS the Christ.
* It is The Son of man, that SHALL RETURN to Earth; With Power.



Who is “we”? The Convert IN Christ? The Jews? The Unbelievers?



How many times does “change” happen?
Once.
But you have Every Person in the SAME boat, (so to speak).
* some are already “changed”, IN Christ.
* some are still deciding. Believing but “NOT” committing.
* some are Not Believing in Christ.
* some are Not Believing in God.
* some are Not Believing and persecuting those who do believe/ and those who do commit.
* some are promoting evil and wickedness.



Rapture is a term, specific to those converted “IN” Christ, specifically such people, while alive in their flesh, Have committed by their heartful Word; Belief In God and Jesus IS the Christ Messiah of God.
They have AGREED, to lay down their bodily life with Jesus, Crucified.
They have AGRRED, to become soul saved (Gods restoration)
They have AGREED, to become spirit quickened (born again of Gods seed)
They have AGREED, that ONLY the Lord God Almighty, BE THEIR God.

Inasmuch as men PLEDGE their Allegiance, to a flag, to a nation, to a spouse, etc.
Men can PLEDGE their Allegiance to ONLY THE ONE Lord God Almighty.

Those Raptured, HAVE PLEDGED their Allegiance TO ONLY:
The ONE:
Lord (Word Jesus) God (Heavenly Father) Almighty (Power/Christ).

Those NOT Raptured, remain ON Earth.
From Heaven to Earth, Begins Wrath (Tribulation from Heaven); UPON the “unrighteous”.
The “unrighteous”, IS ANYONE who has “NOT” pledged Allegiance:
TO the Lord, TO God, TO the Almighty.

During the Tribulation...IS WHEN, individuals who HAD NOT MADE an Allegiance....DO MAKE their Allegiances, (and become SAVED, then BODILY KILLED, “giving “THEIR” bodily life to God”.) Their soul and spirit go to Heaven. THEIR bodies raised after the 1,000 yr reign.
(First Resurrection).

Also during the Tribulations...IS WHEN, some individuals WILL Expressly REJECT MAKING their Allegiance TO the Lord, TO God, TO the Almighty.
They toward the end of the Tribulation shall all be KILLED. Their Bodies raised after the 1,000 yr reign. (Second Resurrection).

Before Tribulation from Heaven;
Rapture......Raising those Already WHOLE...body, soul, spirit.
After Tribulation from Heaven; After 1,000 Yr Reign,
First Resurrection....Raising those MADE WHOLE during Trib.
Second Resurrection...Raising those NOT MADE WHOLE during Trib.

It’s more in-depth, but you want a simple carnal answer to a spiritual question. “WE”...who?

@Taken Good indeed to distinguish the church from Tribulation saints......This is I believe Scriptural...

 

[Timtofly]

Paradise is where the “Tree of Life is”. (Fruit of the Righteous.)
The “Tree of Life” moves, making a full circle.
1st ON Earth. (Garden)
2nd IN Earth. (Comfort side of Hell/ Saved souls/ gulf division)
3rd IN Heaven. (Gods Heavenly Kingdom)
4th ON Earth. (Whole Earth/ Gods Kingdom)




Luke 23:
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Paradise was shut off to Adam and all his flesh. It was never Abraham's bosom. If that were the case it would have been called Paradise throughout the OT by David and the prophets. It was not. According to Hebrew tradition it was Adam's rest. Please explain to me why God removed the angel guarding the entrance, and let all of Adam's dead sinful flesh into Paradise prior to the Atonement of the Cross. Should God have just left every one in Abraham's bosom for all time? It was Paradise, according to you.

You all are missing the point. The Cross opened Paradise wide. All of Abraham's bosom could now enter freely. The Cross was the only act that removed the angel from guarding the entrance. The thief was the first human after the Cross to enter Paradise. Those bodies that came out of their graves could not ascend to Paradise all on their own. They were led by Jesus their Prince into Paradise bodily Sunday morning after Jesus talked to Mary. They did not enter, leave, enter Paradise at the Cross. They left Abraham's bosom on Wednesday. They entered Paradise on Sunday.

Only the thief entered Paradise that day when he succumbed to physical death. He did not go to Abraham's bosom. It was empty and impossible, because Paradise was now opened instead. He did not bodily get off his cross and walk around Jerusalem with the rest of the OT. God told him he would be in Paradise that day, and he was.

The week of the Cross is chronological. The events were written in order not a randomn arrangement, we centuries later needed to unscramble. Same goes with Revelation, but no one seems to grasp that point.

 

[Taken]

Paradise was shut off to Adam and all his flesh. It was never Abraham's bosom. If that were the case it would have been called Paradise throughout the OT by David and the prophets. It was not. According to Hebrew tradition it was Adam's rest. Please explain to me why God removed the angel guarding the entrance, and let all of Adam's dead sinful flesh into Paradise prior to the Atonement of the Cross. Should God have just left every one in Abraham's bosom for all time? It was Paradise, according to you.

You all are missing the point. The Cross opened Paradise wide. All of Abraham's bosom could now enter freely. The Cross was the only act that removed the angel from guarding the entrance. The thief was the first human after the Cross to enter Paradise. Those bodies that came out of their graves could not ascend to Paradise all on their own. They were led by Jesus their Prince into Paradise bodily Sunday morning after Jesus talked to Mary. They did not enter, leave, enter Paradise at the Cross. They left Abraham's bosom on Wednesday. They entered Paradise on Sunday.

Only the thief entered Paradise that day when he succumbed to physical death. He did not go to Abraham's bosom. It was empty and impossible, because Paradise was now opened instead. He did not bodily get off his cross and walk around Jerusalem with the rest of the OT. God told him he would be in Paradise that day, and he was.

The week of the Cross is chronological. The events were written in order not a randomn arrangement, we centuries later needed to unscramble. Same goes with Revelation, but no one seems to grasp that point.

Paradise is where living souls forgiven their sin are presently waiting for their body’s resurrection, their souls life sustained by the Tree of Life.
First in the Garden of Eden.
Secondly in the Comfort side of Hell.
Thirdly in Heaven.
Lastly On Earth.

Rev 2:
[7] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

No human body’s have gone to Paradise.
Salvation - is Restoration (Pss 3:23) of the soul, ie back to good.
Quickening - is Rebirth of a mans natural spirit, from Gods Seed.
Resurrection - is Raising up of the body, in Glory or Damnation.

 

[n2thelight]

Means to me, God is Faithful.
Means to you, God is Deceptive.



* It was The Son of man that came to Earth; Humbled.
* While ON Earth, The Son of man, was Revealed, IS the Son of God, IS the Christ.
* It is The Son of man, that SHALL RETURN to Earth; With Power.



Who is “we”? The Convert IN Christ? The Jews? The Unbelievers?



How many times does “change” happen?
Once.
But you have Every Person in the SAME boat, (so to speak).
* some are already “changed”, IN Christ.
* some are still deciding. Believing but “NOT” committing.
* some are Not Believing in Christ.
* some are Not Believing in God.
* some are Not Believing and persecuting those who do believe/ and those who do commit.
* some are promoting evil and wickedness.



Rapture is a term, specific to those converted “IN” Christ, specifically such people, while alive in their flesh, Have committed by their heartful Word; Belief In God and Jesus IS the Christ Messiah of God.
They have AGREED, to lay down their bodily life with Jesus, Crucified.
They have AGRRED, to become soul saved (Gods restoration)
They have AGREED, to become spirit quickened (born again of Gods seed)
They have AGREED, that ONLY the Lord God Almighty, BE THEIR God.

Inasmuch as men PLEDGE their Allegiance, to a flag, to a nation, to a spouse, etc.
Men can PLEDGE their Allegiance to ONLY THE ONE Lord God Almighty.

Those Raptured, HAVE PLEDGED their Allegiance TO ONLY:
The ONE:
Lord (Word Jesus) God (Heavenly Father) Almighty (Power/Christ).

Those NOT Raptured, remain ON Earth.
From Heaven to Earth, Begins Wrath (Tribulation from Heaven); UPON the “unrighteous”.
The “unrighteous”, IS ANYONE who has “NOT” pledged Allegiance:
TO the Lord, TO God, TO the Almighty.

During the Tribulation...IS WHEN, individuals who HAD NOT MADE an Allegiance....DO MAKE their Allegiances, (and become SAVED, then BODILY KILLED, “giving “THEIR” bodily life to God”.) Their soul and spirit go to Heaven. THEIR bodies raised after the 1,000 yr reign.
(First Resurrection).

Also during the Tribulations...IS WHEN, some individuals WILL Expressly REJECT MAKING their Allegiance TO the Lord, TO God, TO the Almighty.
They toward the end of the Tribulation shall all be KILLED. Their Bodies raised after the 1,000 yr reign. (Second Resurrection).

Before Tribulation from Heaven;
Rapture......Raising those Already WHOLE...body, soul, spirit.
After Tribulation from Heaven; After 1,000 Yr Reign,
First Resurrection....Raising those MADE WHOLE during Trib.
Second Resurrection...Raising those NOT MADE WHOLE during Trib.

It’s more in-depth, but you want a simple carnal answer to a spiritual question. “WE”...who?

You don't have it right

At Christ one and only 2nd coming ALL shall be changed ,period , saint and sinner alike .

The resurrection happens at death or the return of Christ, whichever comes first .Although changed some soils(ie)not in Christ will have a mortal soul ,meaning they can die the 2nd death.

What do you think the purpose of the millennium is , and are you under the assumption flesh will be here on earth during this time?

 

[n2thelight]

Let's look at this logically ,Paul stated that we will not gather to Christ ,if you chose to call that a rapture fine ,fact remains he, as well as Christ Himself ,told us exactly what must take place before that happens.

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Is the subject not the return of Christ and when we gather to Him.

It's know way anyone can twist that scripture ,elementary english .

So what is the above, 2nd coming or the rapture ?Only two choices so please don't give me a long explanation

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

What day ?

Next question if satan is not revealed until the return of Christ ,how do you all leave before ?

 

[Taken]

You don't have it right

God has it RIGHT, and I trust what He reveals.

At Christ one and only 2nd coming ALL shall be changed ,period , saint and sinner alike .

The resurrection happens at death or the return of Christ, whichever comes first .Although changed some soils(ie)not in Christ will have a mortal soul ,meaning they can die the 2nd death.

What do you think the purpose of the millennium is , and are you under the assumption flesh will be here on earth during this time?

Perspective, Context, Understanding....

How many NAMES are “you” called?
And Does “EVERY” person “call you”, by the SAME Name?

Why do you SAY, Christ is coming, at His 2nd coming?
What do you MEAN?

“What” DID God FORETELL “He would send” to EARTH?
And FROM WHERE would this “thing” be sent?

Remember, be as a little child, hear, learn, bit by bit, and keep things in perspective, context....to arrive at understanding of Gods intended understanding.

Can you answer?
“What” DID God FORETELL “He would send” to EARTH?
And FROM WHERE would this “thing” be sent?

 

[Taken]

@n2thelight

Can you answer?
“What” DID God FORETELL “He would send” to EARTH?
And FROM WHERE would this “thing” be sent?

Let me help you out...

Keeping in mind...what God SAYS...and then what THOUGHTS of God, God Himself reveals TO US.

Isa 55:
[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

What Did God Foretell “He would send” to Earth?
Answer; His WORD.

From Where “WAS” Gods WORD?
Answer, IN Heaven, IN Gods MOUTH.

What IS Gods “WORD”?
Answer, A Holy thing.

Where “exactly” Did God SEND “His Word”?
Answer, To a virgin Womb.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee ...

(Will be called, the Son of man,
Will be called, by the Name JESUS.
Will be revealed, IN Judah.
Will be called, a Nazarene, a Jew.
Will be of the House of David.
Will seek the Jews.
Will be called Savior,
Will Accomplish that which pleases God,.... etc. etc. etc. )

Luke 1: [35] ....shall be called the Son of God.

Understanding...
Gods Word, IN His Mouth, that comes forth out of His Mouth, Also Remains IN His Mouth. That which IS IN God, IS God.

In perspective, God IN Heaven, sent His Word, Forth OUT from Gods Mouth.
In perspective, A “THING” which Comes Forth OUT of a Living thing, IS CALL, “BORN OF” that thing it Comes Forth FROM.

Spiritually, understanding. The FIRST TIME, God sent OUT from His MOUTH, His Word, His Word, Was Born OF GOD.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The moment God SAID, His Word that came Forth OUT of Gods Mouth, Gods Word was Born.

In perspective and according to Gods Understanding...
That which is IN God IS God. Possessive of God Alone. Possessive words...Me, Mine, I, etc.

In perspective...God SENT His WORD forth out of His mouth, TO a virgin womb, of a woman, betrothed to a man, OF the House of David.
Once that woman WAS MARRIED to that man, OF the House of David...
Any “thing” coming forth (born) out from that woman, WOULD BE...
* Legally (according to mans law)..an offspring OF the House of David.
* Legally (according to Gods law)...an offspring OF the House of David.

And WHO can LEGALLY sit ON king David’s Everlasting Throne ?
Ever lasting? (2 Sam 7:13-14)

Gods Word, sent to Earth, Gods Word, called Jesus, God Himself.
God Word, Left Earth, Returned to Heaven, and SHALL “RETURN” to Earth......

In perspective and context...you have completely skipped over...
The Word of God, called Jesus, called the Son of Man...
Returning to Earth.

Do you KNOW MEN ONLY saw JESUS?
Or How or Why?
No man HAS SEEN Christ?
Why not?

There is a difference BETWEEN...SEEING and KNOWING.

 

[n2thelight]

@n2thelight

Can you answer?
“What” DID God FORETELL “He would send” to EARTH?
And FROM WHERE would this “thing” be sent?

Let me help you out...

Keeping in mind...what God SAYS...and then what THOUGHTS of God, God Himself reveals TO US.

Isa 55:
[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

What Did God Foretell “He would send” to Earth?
Answer; His WORD.

From Where “WAS” Gods WORD?
Answer, IN Heaven, IN Gods MOUTH.

What IS Gods “WORD”?
Answer, A Holy thing.

Where “exactly” Did God SEND “His Word”?
Answer, To a virgin Womb.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee ...

(Will be called, the Son of man,
Will be called, by the Name JESUS.
Will be revealed, IN Judah.
Will be called, a Nazarene, a Jew.
Will be of the House of David.
Will seek the Jews.
Will be called Savior,
Will Accomplish that which pleases God,.... etc. etc. etc. )

Luke 1: [35] ....shall be called the Son of God.

Understanding...
Gods Word, IN His Mouth, that comes forth out of His Mouth, Also Remains IN His Mouth. That which IS IN God, IS God.

In perspective, God IN Heaven, sent His Word, Forth OUT from Gods Mouth.
In perspective, A “THING” which Comes Forth OUT of a Living thing, IS CALL, “BORN OF” that thing it Comes Forth FROM.

Spiritually, understanding. The FIRST TIME, God sent OUT from His MOUTH, His Word, His Word, Was Born OF GOD.

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The moment God SAID, His Word that came Forth OUT of Gods Mouth, Gods Word was Born.

In perspective and according to Gods Understanding...
That which is IN God IS God. Possessive of God Alone. Possessive words...Me, Mine, I, etc.

In perspective...God SENT His WORD forth out of His mouth, TO a virgin womb, of a woman, betrothed to a man, OF the House of David.
Once that woman WAS MARRIED to that man, OF the House of David...
Any “thing” coming forth (born) out from that woman, WOULD BE...
* Legally (according to mans law)..an offspring OF the House of David.
* Legally (according to Gods law)...an offspring OF the House of David.

And WHO can LEGALLY sit ON king David’s Everlasting Throne ?
Ever lasting? (2 Sam 7:13-14)

Gods Word, sent to Earth, Gods Word, called Jesus, God Himself.
God Word, Left Earth, Returned to Heaven, and SHALL “RETURN” to Earth......

In perspective and context...you have completely skipped over...
The Word of God, called Jesus, called the Son of Man...
Returning to Earth.

Do you KNOW MEN ONLY saw JESUS?
Or How or Why?
No man HAS SEEN Christ?
Why not?

There is a difference BETWEEN...SEEING and KNOWING.

Where's the answer to my question ? Post 185

 

[Taken]

@n2thelight

Do you KNOW MEN ONLY saw JESUS?
Or How or Why?
No man HAS SEEN Christ?
Why not?

There is a difference BETWEEN...SEEING and KNOWING.

Men ONLY saw Jesus...BECAUSE:
God Prepared A BODY for His Word, FOR WHEN He would come into this world.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Christ IS the Power, Spirit, Wisdom, Seed of God.
1 Cor 1:24
1 Cor 15:45
Gal 3:16

Earthly Men can NOT SEE, Gods Power, Gods Spirit, Gods Wisdom, Gods Seed...
* Earthly Men CAN KNOW, who, what, IS Gods Power, Gods Spirit, Gods Wisdom, Gods Seed....
* Men CAN SEE THE “reflection” THE “effects”, of Gods Power, Gods Spirit, Gods Wisdom, Gods Seed...

So if you are ON EARTH, during the Tribulation...You are still IN your Earthly Body, with natural Earthly EYES, and CAN NOT SEE, as you say, Christ “returning” TO Earth.

 

[Taken]

Let's look at this logically ,

Looking at something LOGICALLY, straight off notifies me, you are trying to understand a Spiritual teaching with a Carnal mind.

A Carnal Mind, Chooses between THIS option and THAT option, to conclude (LOGICALLY) what that Carnal Mind Will BELIEVE.

A natural spirit of man, IS simply, a mans natural TRUTH, IN HIS HEART!
A natural man IS born of a natural mans SEED...sperm.
A natural mans SPIRIT, is not uh, maybe this option, maybe that option....IT is an absolute Truth.
You say, hummm, what is my NAME...maybe this or maybe that.
You KNOW in your natural spirit, IN your Heart, WHAT your NAME IS.

When a man Freely CHOOSES, to BECOME “BORN AGAIN”...
It is NOT...his body that becomes born again.
It is NOT...his soul that becomes born again.
IT IS, his “natural spirit” that becomes born again.
IT IS, that man being GIVEN GODS SeeD, and that SeeD, “rebirths” the mans “natural spirit”, TO a “spiritual spirit”, and that mans “TRUTH”, becomes GODS TRUTH...period. No Carnal Minded Logic of choosing, between this and that.

So straight off, YOU trying to explain Spiritual things, with a Logical Conclusion of your Carnal Minds Understanding ... is moot.

Paul stated that we will not gather to Christ ,if you chose to call that a rapture fine ,fact remains he, as well as Christ Himself ,told us exactly what must take place before that happens.

Fact is: Jesus IS the Word of God. Learn what JESUS SAID.

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

* Brethren...who is Paul’s brethren? In this CONTEXT, Paul’s brethren, ARE those WHO are “Converted”.
How do I know that? Because Paul reveals ...“OUR gathering”.
* WHO “gathers”...the Lord
* WHAT does the Lord “gather”....Converted men.
* HOW is Lord ABLE to “gather”...By the POWER of God.
* WHO is the POWER of God?....Christ.
* HOW does the Lord Gather?...By, through the VOICE of the Lords Arch-Angel.
* WHO are these Converted men “gathered” unto?....the Lord
* HOW do we KNOW that?
* WHERE are these Converted “gathered” TO? The clouds/air.
* HOW do we KNOW that? 1 Thes 4:16, 17.

Is the subject not the return of Christ and when we gather to Him.

The SUBJECT...is always, who, what, when, why, where.

It's know way anyone can twist that scripture ,elementary english .

.

I’ve noticed.

So what is the above, 2nd coming or the rapture ?Only two choices so please don't give me a long explanation

FYI...Short carnal minded logical answers are satisfactory to the carnal mind.
But...fail regarding Spiritual understanding.

The end of days Tribulation...IS Gods Tribulation....Gods Wrath. Great, Terrible.
(It is specific to God, even though, men routinely cause “tribulations” against each other.)

The end of days Tribulation Specifically Comes DOWN from Heaven...
Because of Gods Anger, Gods Wrath...Specifically a judgement upon the UNRIGHTEOUS upon the face of the Earth.

Bingo...
Rom 1:18
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rev 2:
[22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

DING< DING< DING...A converted man HAS repented of their deeds.
Oh ... and ding, ding, ding....ALREADY been FORGIVEN.
Oh.... and ding, ding, ding....GIVEN his bodily life, Crucified /dead.
Oh.... and ding, ding, ding....MADE spirit “reborn” of Gods Seed.
Oh.... and ding, ding, ding....MADE soul “restored” pss 3:24

NOT appointed to Wrath.
IS appointed to be RISEN UP off the face of the Earth ABOVE the tribulation, wrath, destruction, UPON the face fo the Earth.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

What day ?

THAT DAY IS what Scriptures says;
WHEN, falling away occurs...
WHEN, that man of sin be revealed.

Open your eyes, Open your ears...
Wicked Men ARE promoting, the world at large people ARE accepting, the Agenda of the man of sin.
...silencing people’s mouths, removing God from the schools, children out of the homes, parents out of the homes, children being taught by strangers the most ungodly things are acceptable, closing Churches, people speaking Against God, on and on.
....Are you AWARE, it IS ungodly wicked men promoting the “world Re-set”?
...Are you AWARE, those men sit a nations heads, speaking for their nations?
...Are you AWARE, those nations heads, including Biden are in full agreement?
...Are you AWARE, Trump said hell no, to their agenda?
FALLING AWAY is being instigated before your eyes to SEE.

...Are you AWARE, of WHO that man of SIN is?
...He is the man, the nations heads will APPOINT “head” of their club.
...He is NOT YET appointed. So that day has NOT YET come to fulfill that part of Revealing....it’s a mans doing, and “they” have an agenda...
Agenda 2020 was fulfilled, with their Fear pseudo Plandemic Virus Crisis.
Agenda 2030 is what they next have planned. Maybe then you will SEE, who they “reveal”, as the head man of sin, of their club.

The LAST part...”the son of perdition”, has been on earth since BEFORE mankind was created.
“Perdition” literally means ‘eternal death’. He who was created a holy angel son of God, is He who became the fallen son, liar, murderer, and the father of eternal death for any man who makes his allegiance to “him”.

Next question if satan is not revealed until the return of Christ ,how do you all leave before ?

Before Tribulation from Heaven, and the Wrath of God from Heaven, Begins...the Converted “IN” Christ shall be called up off the face of the Earth, to the Clouds.
Same as in Noahs day. Saved Noah was called into the Ark, Safe IN the Ark for 7 days. For those 7 days the “other things” (ie animals) God elected to Save, entered into the Ark. Then God Shut the door.
Rain fell, Waters from the deep (under the earth) rose up, higher and higher, Killing everything on the face of the Earth. The Ark rose up and up off the face of the Earth, above the mountain tops, reaching the clouds.
Nothing new under the Sun. What was shall be. Not a secret.

How a converted man IN Christ leaves? He is called and the power of God rises him up to MEET THE Lord in the air.

Satan is “given power”, when the Seals (by the Lamb of God, in Heaven opens the Seals one by one)

The son of perdition, is “revealed”, WHEN the wicked man elected by the head of “the re-set club”, mortally dies, and the son of perdition, (Satan, a spirit), takes over his body, causing his body to “appear to the eyes of men OF the world AS alive”.
Caution ... IF you are NOT Converted, and ON Earth during their time, and they say “here is Christ” “there is Christ”, believe them not.

AFTER Trib, After 1,000 yr reign, After Satan is defeated...then shall the Son of man return....(WITH Clouds, WITH Power).

I know you want a simple brief Carnal minded logical explanation.
The Answer is Spiritual, The Understanding is Spiritual and Complex, in that it deals with and addresses Every living thing. And not Every living thing is the Same.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The bodies left the grave at the Cross, when Jesus said it is finished. They were walking around Jerusalem for those 3 days. I am surprised that you are only looking at a body in a grave and not all those bodies walking around Jerusalem. While the body was in the tomb, the Spirit and soul were in Paradise. Jesus had to wait in Paradise, while the body was in the tomb until the whole 3 days were up.

Why would God hang out in sheol, when no souls were there, but were all walking around on earth for those same 3 days?

Do you think the Second Coming is going to take 3 days to process all those souls meeting in the air? If this process is instantaneous, why do you think it took 3 days back in 30AD? Abraham's bosom was emptied instantaneously. There was no where to go. Those bodies had to walk around on earth until the 3 days were over, and Jesus would bodily ascend with them into Paradise.

The bodies did not come out of Abraham's bosom 3 days after the Cross. They came out immediately. Jesus did not bodily get down from the Cross and ascend that day. Jesus' body had to wait in the grave, because Jesus told the Jews on several occasions that would happen. It was proof of a physical bodily resurrection. It was more necessary than just coming off the Cross, and directly ascending at that moment.

You reject Jesus is God, and that the thief was with God in Paradise a part of heaven called the third heaven. Instead of common sense taking into consideration all of reality. You claim the thief was in the tomb with the body of Jesus since obviously that 3 days in the tomb, is your weird version of a temporary "paradise".

If you keep insisting this, it is trivial. There is no Scriptural proof that both the thief and Jesus were in the tomb hanging out for 3 days. The thief was in Paradise with God. The body of Christ was in the tomb, but the spirit and soul of Jesus was waiting in heaven, until the body would be resurrected. Or wherever, but not in Abraham's bosom. That was already empty and the souls and bodies of Abraham's bosom were walking around awaiting the ascension on Sunday morning, after Jesus met Mary near the empty tomb.

Some bodies left, but not all righteous dead. Abrahams bosom is not where bodies go, but where the sould of th erighteous dead wentr. The bodies went into teh ground.

I never said that Jesus body hung on the cross for three days, that is you making fiction up and then trying to blame me for your imagination.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paradise is not in Hades. Jesus said there was a great gulf inbetween the TWO PLACES.


Jesus went to Hades not paradise. People in paradise are already saved and don't need any help etc.

It is not there anymore. for it is closed! But prior to His ascension, th erighteous dead did not go to heaven for Jesus blood had not yet been actually poured out on the mercy seat in heaven.

Hades is just a term for the world of dead souls. It is known in Hebrew as sheol, Greek as Hades English as hell or the grave.

It had 3 places, Paradise, the place of torments and tartarus. And there is nothing in Scripture that Jesus went to help people. The rich man knew he had no help available.

 

[Timtofly]

Some bodies left, but not all righteous dead. Abrahams bosom is not where bodies go, but where the sould of th erighteous dead wentr. The bodies went into teh ground.

I never said that Jesus body hung on the cross for three days, that is you making fiction up and then trying to blame me for your imagination.

I never said you said Jesus remained on the Cross. I was talking about the thief, not Jesus. I said the body was in the tomb. That is the only proof, those Jewish leaders would have to make sure Jesus actually died, instead of just going into a comma. God and the Holy Spirit did not have to sit in the tomb for 3 days.

had 3 places, Paradise, the place of torments and tartarus. And there is nothing in Scripture that Jesus went to help people. The rich man knew he had no help available.

So you accept human tradition, which actually does not even claim this, over God's Word?
Genesis 3:24

"So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Can you explain how a soul can get passed this flaming sword to enter Paradise?

Jesus called it Abraham's bosom. Jesus did not call it Paradise.

Why would God ever place the tree of life in sheol? If the garden was removed from earth, it was taken to heaven. Abraham looked for a heavenly city, not the tree of life in sheol. Good grief, some here have no common sense. Hebrews 11:13-16

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

They went to sheol, not heaven. Are you going to realy claim this is not about heaven and the tree of life, but sheol, and that the tree of life was in Satan's domain, sheol?

The verse says they did not arrive in Paradise. They had to wait in Abraham's bosom until the Cross. Then they bodily came out of their graves. The thief went to Paradise, the third heaven, that day. He did not go to empty Abraham's bosom. He did not even die at the same time Jesus died. He died hours later, very much late for those already bodily resurrected. He did not have a resurrected body, before he was even actually dead.

 

[ewq1938]

It is not there anymore. for it is closed! But prior to His ascension, th erighteous dead did not go to heaven for Jesus blood had not yet been actually poured out on the mercy seat in heaven.

They did go to heaven as all saved people do. The saved go to heaven also called paradise. The unsaved go to Hades. This has not changed.

Hades is just a term for the world of dead souls. It is known in Hebrew as sheol, Greek as Hades English as hell or the grave.

I already know that.

It had 3 places, Paradise, the place of torments and tartarus.

This is wrong. There is Hades and there is Heaven, a great gulf is inbetween the two places. Tartarus is a special place in Hades for the worst of the worst.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Can you explain how a soul can get passed this flaming sword to enter Paradise?

Jesus called it Abraham's bosom. Jesus did not call it Paradise.

Why would God ever place the tree of life in sheol? If the garden was removed from earth, it was taken to heaven. Abraham looked for a heavenly city, not the tree of life in sheol. Good grief, some here have no common sense. Hebrews 11:13-16

I never said that the Garden was paradise.

I said that the place in the world of the dead was called by Jews Abrahams Bosom/Paradise. Jesus did not go to heaven when He died, He went to Abrahams bosom and preached to the righteous souls awaiting there. Jesus was a Jew and would speak in their culture. The pentient thied did not go to heaven when He died- He went to paradise/Abrahams bosom.

I know you may find this hard to believe, but there are two paradises mentioned in the bible, possible three! Eden, Abrahms Bosom, and the paradise in heaven.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

They did go to heaven as all saved people do. The saved go to heaven also called paradise. The unsaved go to Hades. This has not changed.

YOu need to read your bible more.

Until Jesus ascended, not one righteous soul that died went to heaven. Jesus blood had not bee shed yet . they went to paradise in Hades

 

[farouk]

@Ronald Nolette On the rapture aspect, it's striking that in 1 Cor. 11.26 the Lord's Supper directly links the church with the rapture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette On the rapture aspect, it's striking that in 1 Cor. 11.26 the Lord's Supper directly links the church with the rapture.

I don't know if it does that. But it does show that partaking in communion proclaims HIs victory over death till He returns.

 

[ewq1938]

YOu need to read your bible more.

Until Jesus ascended, not one righteous soul that died went to heaven. Jesus blood had not bee shed yet . they went to paradise in Hades

This isn't biblical. There is no paradise in Hades. The idea is foolish and ridiculous. Do you think there is a hell in heaven also??

 

[James Macbeth]

Of course the church isn't under the wrath but there is a difference between the wrath of God and the persecution of the saints. The lake of fire also isn't God wrath but Gods judgement

Vengeance is mine saith the LORD.

They are one in the same.