OzSpen said:
Here you go again with another red herring. In this reply, you did not address what I wrote in #46, with the evidence I provided to demonstrate the context of Rom 9:14-16 deals with Israel, both before and after those verses.
But justaname doesn't want to deal with this context for Rom 9:14-16 that I have stated clearly, so you deflect to what you want to talk about.
Here I conceded that Israel is within the context with my "yes, but" statement. Yet now lets get more detailed. In Romans 8:23-39 the Christian is the subject in this section. I agree national Israel is the subject in verses 1-5. Contextually the focus shifts at verse 6. Verse 6 and 7 deal with what one in Paul's day would consider Israel, yet Paul wants to emphasize Abraham's descendants, redefining what people thought of Israel. He says they are not all Israel, who are from Israel (the man). I will pick up at verse 8.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
9 For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.”
Here now the direct context are the children of promise, the true descendants of Abraham. No longer is national Israel in mind.
10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”
13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
Here Paul switches to individuals, who were not yet born as the direct context indicates. Technically Paul is stating God selected individuals before anything had been done because of Him who calls, stressing God's sovereign election.
Moving on...
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
15 For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.”
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
This then is referring to the twins, individuals, where one was selected for God's great name over the other.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”
18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Here Paul references Pharaoh, another individual, that was raised up for God's own purpose, again for His namesake.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”
20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?
21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
Here then is where Paul begins to conclude and apply his argument, applying it to those who receive God's mercy. Here he speaks of vessels prepared for honorable use, and another for common use, again individuals. Without question God's sovereign choice is being stressed. I argue these vessels prepared are both raised for God's namesake. Those prepared for wrath proclaim God's justice, those prepared for glory proclaim God's mercy.
So then as Paul applies God's sovereign election to individuals for God's namesake he eventually applies this to all of humanity. Those prepared for glory we would consider to be Christians. (cf Romans 8:28-30)
OzSpen said:
As for believing Jesus was the Son of God as an act of the will, I most definitely answered it this way:
It seems I assumed too much.
I thought you were capable of understanding Titus 2:11 (ESV) that shows God's grace has appeared [in Jesus] bringing salvation for all people [i.e. freeing the will] and in Acts 16:30-31 (ESV) the Philippian jailer was told '[you] believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved'.
See my article,
How to interpret ‘appeared’ in Titus 2:11
Oz
I fully understand Titus 2:11, yet we need not agree on your interpretation. I understand and proclaim salvation is offered to all people. There in no need to infer the human will is freed within this context though.
You still have not answered the question though. This is simply a way to avoid a yes or no answer. I can infer from your answer you believe it is a act of the will to believe Jesus is the Christ, yet I would rather a direct answer.
opcorn:
