Two Ways of thinking about OSAS

[OzSpen]

You have committed an emocon fallacy!

That's correct and that's why I deleted it and replaced it with Greek exegesis of 1 John 1:9. Please find above where the emocon fallacy is in my text. It is not there now. I have deleted it and you are here replying to something that is not in my existing post.

Now deal with the exegesis of 1 John 1:9 that I have provided from the Greek text.

Oz

 

[FHII]

That's correct and that's why I deleted it and replaced it with Greek exegesis of 1 John 1:9. Please find above where the emocon fallacy is in my text. It is not there now. I have deleted it and you are here replying to something that is not in my existing post.

Now deal with the exegesis of 1 John 1:9 that I have provided from the Greek text.

Oz

Dang Oz.... You cant even enjoy a good ribbing!

 

[FHII]

I don't speak greek, Oz. So I go by what thr biblr says in english. If you don't like the way its written, write your own version.

Does god need to continually renew his forgiveness? Does he need to die every day or did he die once for all?

If god forgives me for being a sinner than its settled. There is therefore now no condemnation.

 

[FHII]

I have deleted it and you are here replying to something that is not in my existing post.

Now deal with the exegesis of 1 John 1:9 that I have provided from the Greek text.

Oz

That's a great trick! Write something, wait for a reply, change the post and then accuse me of replying to something that isn't there!

Smooth move Oz!

 

[OzSpen]

Dang Oz.... You cant even enjoy a good ribbing!

FHill,

I enjoyed your ribbing but had decided before your post came through that I should change the emoticon to content. I was in the midst of doing that rewrite when you wrote.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

That's a great trick! Write something, wait for a reply, change the post and then accuse me of replying to something that isn't there!

Smooth move Oz!

That's a false assessment. For me to delete the emoticon and replace with exegetical material took time. I did NOT wait for your reply, see your reply and change my post.

This is how it happened for me. I uploaded the emoticon, realised it was not appropriate, and worked on Greek exegesis of 1 John 1:9 while I was online. This took time. While I was doing this, you apparently sent your reply accusing me of an emoticon fallacy. However, I did not see your post until AFTER I had uploaded my exegesis.

There was no SMOOTH MOVE. It was simply deleting what I had done and replacing with a more detailed exegesis. That took time.

Nice try!

Oz

 

[FHII]

That's a false assessment. For me to delete the emoticon and replace with exegetical material took time. I did NOT wait for your reply, see your reply and change my post.

This is how it happened for me. I uploaded the emoticon, realised it was not appropriate, and worked on Greek exegesis of 1 John 1:9 while I was online. This took time. While I was doing this, you apparently sent your reply accusing me of an emoticon fallacy. However, I did not see your post until AFTER I had uploaded my exegesis.

There was no SMOOTH MOVE. It was simply deleting what I had done and replacing with a more detailed exegesis. That took time.

Nice try!

Oz

Yea.... Wasn't there a Scooby Doo episode where that happened?

 

[OzSpen]

Yea.... Wasn't there a Scooby Doo episode where that happened?

Are you accusing me of being a deceiver?

 

[FHII]

Oz, look. When you start going to a greek dictionary you are in danger of mistranslating. For each word, there may be several different meanings. That gives you lattitude to pick your own meaning. Thus, you get to retranslate the bible.

I'm not going to accuse you of that, but I've seen it done quite a bit. I'm also not saying that we shouldn't look at greek definitions. But as a rule, i don't do so in order to make the bible say something different than whats in the original transation.

My point of view is not limited to 1john 1:8-10. Its looking at the entire scope.

The point is by confessing i am a sinner and a continuous one, i can expect and receive continual forgiveness. I AM being justified by faith, an I HAVE peace with God.

If i try to confess each and every sin i commit, have committed and will commit, i will need a bit more coffee cause its going to take some time. And i can't even remember them all and I'm not sure i remember all of God's laws.

Can you remember such? See my point?

Now if you want to commit to confessing all you can remember, fine. I have no problem with that and its admirable.

All I did was confess that I was a sinner and needed forgiveness. Kind of like the publican in luke 18:13

 

[FHII]

Are you accusing me of being a deceiver?

Yes! And i would've gotten away with it if it weren't for these meddling kids!

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, look. When you start going to a greek dictionary you are in danger of mistranslating. For each word, there may be several different meanings. That gives you lattitude to pick your own meaning. Thus, you get to retranslate the bible.

I'm not going to accuse you of that, but I've seen it done quite a bit. I'm also not saying that we shouldn't look at greek definitions. But as a rule, i don't do so in order to make the bible say something different than whats in the original transation.

My point of view is not limited to 1john 1:8-10. Its looking at the entire scope.

The point is by confessing i am a sinner and a continuous one, i can expect and receive continual forgiveness. I AM being justified by faith, an I HAVE peace with God.

If i try to confess each and every sin i commit, have committed and will commit, i will need a bit more coffee cause its going to take some time. And i can't even remember them all and I'm not sure i remember all of God's laws.

Can you remember such? See my point?

Now if you want to commit to confessing all you can remember, fine. I have no problem with that and its admirable.

All I did was confess that I was a sinner and needed forgiveness. Kind of like the publican in luke 18:13

Do you understand Greek grammar and know how to exegete the Greek text of the NT?

 

[FHII]

Do you understand Greek grammar and know how to exegete the Greek text of the NT?

I already answered that question. Please try to keep up with the conversation.

And you are guilty of a not-reponding-to-what-i-wrote fallacy.

 

[OzSpen]

I already answered that question. Please try to keep up with the conversation.

And you are guilty of a not-reponding-to-what-i-wrote fallacy.

You did not answer my question. All you gave was a misunderstanding of what engagement with NT Greek involves with your statement,

Oz, look. When you start going to a greek dictionary you are in danger of mistranslating. For each word, there may be several different meanings. That gives you lattitude to pick your own meaning. Thus, you get to retranslate the bible.

I'm not going to accuse you of that, but I've seen it done quite a bit. I'm also not saying that we shouldn't look at greek definitions. But as a rule, i don't do so in order to make the bible say something different than whats in the original transation.

In fact, that confirms that you do not have an understanding of Greek and the nature of Greek exegesis.

You do not seem to want to have a healthy conversation, therefore I say,

Bye, B)

 

[StanJ]

If i try to confess each and every sin i commit, have committed and will commit, i will need a bit more coffee cause its going to take some time. And i can't even remember them all and I'm not sure i remember all of God's laws.
Now if you want to commit to confessing all you can remember, fine. I have no problem with that and its admirable.
All I did was confess that I was a sinner and needed forgiveness. Kind of like the publican in luke 18:13

You're missing the point of how John is dealing with sin in his Epistles. He goes through the whole process, first Salvation, then after salvation confessing our sins as we are made aware of them or as we commit them. This is one of the reasons why we are baptized in the Holy Spirit so that we have that power and the recognition to know what sin is. This is different with every individual which is why God writes his laws on our hearts because what is sin in our lives may not be sin in someone else's life. The publican's attitude was definitely a good one, and one we should emulate. The fact that he recognized he was a sinner was the only thing that was required in the story that Jesus told but the details that we find in John's Epistles are more relevant under the New Covenant.
Psalm 139 is a good indicator of how the Holy Spirit is always with us and as we walk with him He will continually remind us of things that are wrong in our lives and as we admit and confess to them as being wrong we are forgiven. It is indeed a continual process but not one that occupies our conscious mind 24/7. It is one that is instigated by the Holy Spirit and in my experience, the sooner we accept his prodding and conviction the quicker we are able to move on in our day-to-day lives. For sure God will not stop convicting us when it comes to sin in our lives until or unless we get to the point where we are beyond conviction. That would be when one enters the state of apostasy, and is another issue that John also dealt with in his Epistles.

 

[mjrhealth]

MMm, not quiet.

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Why

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

because

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Only those who dont beleieve, not crucified with Him, have trouble with sin, for as teh bible says, they dont believe, Its all about unbelief.

Edited for those who get annoyed with spelling errors (imperfection)

 

[FHII]

You did not answer my question. All you gave was a misunderstanding of what engagement with NT Greek involves with your statement,


In fact, that confirms that you do not have an understanding of Greek and the nature of Greek exegesis.

You do not seem to want to have a healthy conversation, therefore I say,

Bye, B)

Now Ozspen... First you say I did not answer my question and then you confirm that I did answer your question. You are one kooky guy!!!

There is nothing healthy about this conversation and when you can't make your point with an English Bible and look to try a different language, I don't want any part of that conversation. I've given you the reasons why this is a poor idea and yet you say you didn't answer my question... It's almost like a knee jerk reaction with you....

But I am happy and approve of you deciding to bother me no more. I asked this of you a while ago and you kept on pressing.... So thanks for not participating anymore.

 

[OzSpen]

Now Ozspen... First you say I did not answer my question and then you confirm that I did answer your question. You are one kooky guy!!!

There is nothing healthy about this conversation and when you can't make your point with an English Bible and look to try a different language, I don't want any part of that conversation. I've given you the reasons why this is a poor idea and yet you say you didn't answer my question... It's almost like a knee jerk reaction with you....

But I am happy and approve of you deciding to bother me no more. I asked this of you a while ago and you kept on pressing.... So thanks for not participating anymore.

FHll,

Exegeting an English Bible is not the best way to understand the Bible because the Bible in English is a translated language, based on Hebrew & Aramaic (OT) and Koine Greek (NT). Words in English sometimes do not convey what the Hebrew and Greek state. Therefore, a knowledge of the original languages is helpful to better understand what the Bible states. I understand that there are people like yourself who do not know the original languages.

You did state, 'I don't speak greek, Oz. So I go by what thr biblr says in english. If you don't like the way its written, write your own version' (#123). Seems like you don't use a spell checker either. I have no intention of writing my own version of the Bible, but every commentator knows the original languages to be able to accurately exegete what the Scriptures state. There is a new Lexham English Bible to help explain further some of the nuances of Hebrew and Greek, to better understand the English Bible we currently use.

So you don't want to be part of any conversation that deals with the original languages of the Bible? I find that to be a statement of ignorance when we wouldn't have an English Bible if it were not for original languages of Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT). From the way you write, you seem to think English is God's language. The Bible came from a Middle-Eastern culture that did not speak English.

If you don't want me to bother you, place me on Ignore.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

If you don't want me to bother you, place me on Ignore.

Actually the rules are that if someone asks you to not respond to their posts you have to comply. Of course that only means you can't quote their posts or refer to their posts, it doesn't mean you can't deal with the issue.

 

[FHII]

Oz, tou said, "bye".... Thought that meant you were done!

 

[lforrest]

Actually the rules are that if someone asks you to not respond to their posts you have to comply. Of course that only means you can't quote their posts or refer to their posts, it doesn't mean you can't deal with the issue.

That isn't what the rule says, I suggest reading it again.