It is the chosen generation that is from everlasting to everlasting. They shall not pass till all is fulfilled because they shall endure forever!
Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.
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It is the chosen generation that is from everlasting to everlasting. They shall not pass till all is fulfilled because they shall endure forever!
Yes, just as an evil and adulterous are of one type of people, so too is a chosen generation of one type of people.
1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Strong's Greek Dictionary
1085. γένος genos (génos)
Search for G1085 in KJVSL; in KJV.
γένος génos, ghen'-os
from G1096; "kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective):—born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock.
Why did the apostle Matthew use the words “this generation” instead of the words “that generation” in Matthew 24:34?
This generation implies people that are present or in front of you while that generation would imply people that are not present or in front of you.
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Here is an example of how the word “that” implies something that is not presently in front of you. If we were to change this verse to say “this world” it would completely change this verse. The same is true for changing “this generation” to “that generation” in Matthew 24:34.
Yes, and Christ knows the difference between "this generation" speaking to His disciples and all the tribes of the earth saying "and THEY shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds." THIS generation is not THEY that shall see Christ coming again. Whoever you decide "this generation" means, it must include the first century disciples of Christ, who will not be around to physically see Christ coming again. I believe "this generation" that shall not pass til all things be fulfilled is the chosen generation that shall not pass because they shall endure forever.
Yes, I agree no matter how we interpret “this generation” it was present when Jesus spoke those words.
It’s my understanding that the LXX Old Testament always used the word “that” <1565>, the same “that” in Luke 20:35, to indicate a different generation than the one contemporary to the author, it never used the word “this” <3778>, the same “this” in Matthew 24:35.
ewq1938
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Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
this:
G3778
houtos houtoi haute¯ hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.
The verse equally can be translated as, "Verily I say unto you, THAT generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Many people use "this generation" as supposed proof Jesus meant the one he lived in and was speaking to but that is faulty since the word equally can mean "that" so we would have "that generation".
Since the generation he lived in and was speaking to did not see the sun and moon go dark, stars fall, the sign of the son of man nor saw the son of man coming, nor the angels gathering the elect which would have included the disciples means without a doubt Jesus was speaking of a future generation.
Additionally, you can talk about a future generation and refer to it as "this generation". Example, "The generation of 3000AD will populate other planets. This generation will be known as the Space Generation."
Well the LXX never used the word “this” <3778> to mean the generation that was contemporary to the author, the word “that” <1565> was used. For example
Exodus 1:6 (LXX) And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that <1565> generation.
Judges 2:10 (LXX) And also all that <1565> generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.
Why do you suppose this one and only inconsistency was introduced in the Olivet Discourse? Doesn’t it take two or three witnesses to validate a point? Where are the other examples in the scriptures that show the word “this” being used in a way that supports your argument?
ewq1938
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The dictionary definition of the Greek word proves what I have said. The word can mean this or that. Remember that it is pointless to use logical arguments of one language upon a completely different language.
Truth7t7
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"This Generation" implies the "Generation" that will be "Eyewitnesses" of the Lord's 2nd coming as seen below, will you also deny through symbolic allegory that the "Literal" "Future" 2nd coming is seen below in bold red?
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
What is the day and hour no man knows, it's the future second coming that didn't take place in 70 AD, reformed eschatology is a (Lie)!
Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
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For anyone reading along that doesn’t know, the LXX or Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. Jesus himself quoted from the LXX, it is debatable as to how many times He quoted the LXX and how many times He quoted from the Masoretic Text but no doubt He quoted from both. Some people argue Jesus cites as many as 340 times from the LXX and only 33 from the Mesoretic Text.
Ok, the LXX isn’t just some translation we should brush off. It gives us important information on which Greek words are to be used for their Hebrew equivalent.
I will rely on the LXX more so than your dictionary definition. As I said in the previous post the LXX never uses the word “this” <3778> to mean the generation that was contemporary to the author, the word “that” <1565> was always used.
TribulationSigns
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No.
When Christ speaks to his disciples, he speaks to the Church universally. That does not mean the prophecies of Olievt Discourse was fulfilled within the first century like Preterists insisted.
There had to be a “coming” in the first or second century. Let’s take for example Revelation 3:3, the church at Sardis is warned If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. This statement wasn’t true unless there was a coming that happened to Sardis. If someone didn’t watch, and Christ still didn’t come on them as a thief, then this verse was untrue.
Also the fact that currently full preterist aren’t watching and Jesus hasn’t come on them as a thief proves there had to be a “coming” that happened to the church at Sardis, and that message wasn’t meant for us today, else again, you have an untrue statement in the Bible.
ewq1938
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We are talking about the NT, not the OT. The word used is Strongs number 3778 and it means this or that, not just one of the two words.
G3778
οὗτος, οὗτοι, αὕτη, αὕται
houtos houtoi hautē hautai
hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.
Total KJV occurrences: 352
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This G3778 generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Yea, the problem is you are trying to make a case for what would be the only place found anywhere where the word is translated the way you see it. I can show multiple times where it could’ve been used the way you say but it never was, a different word was used.
The only reason you have to make this argument is to back up a view that otherwise can’t be supported.
Truth7t7
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Good try no cigar
There are 2 comings of Jesus Christ in the Bible, the 1st in his life upon earth, the second will be in his return in fire and final judgment (The End)
Your claim there are 3 comings is "False"
Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Truth7t7
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TribulationSigns
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First, this has NOTHING to do with Jews, Israel or physical temple in 70AD. So Pretrists' answer to your questions are incorrect.
The Olivet Discourse was prophesied against the CHURCH before the Second Coming. Here's why:
1.) Why does Luke talk about armies while Mark and Matthew talk about the Abomination of Desolation?
Apostasy comes from a kingdom rising against the kingdom, there is famine, persecution, betrayal, hatred, etc., as in those signs. Indeed apostasy is Jerusalem compassed with armies. NOT physically, but SPIRITUALLY. What many people fail to realize is that the New Testament JErsualem "IS" the church, not a physical building in the Middle East. So what armies would encap against her and surround her but those soldiers SPIRITUALLY of Satan, just "as" they did at Christ's first advent (ie. the Pharisees, scribes, teachers, etc.). There were no literal/physical battles in Jersalem then, no literal armies then, and there were no literal/physical battles or armies against the Lord's house in the last day. It is a SPIRITIUAL warfare. For example:
Rev 20:8-9
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
The beloved city is spiritual Jersualem, the church! That is the encampment of the Saints. Not the Jews in the 1st century. The fight against abomination standing in the holy place. Again, it all depends upon how we define God's word, either "by" God's Word or by presumption in looking at physical nations, battles, families, and warfare as people here often are doing.
The point is the churches, are under attack by the ARMIES of Satan's ministers of unrighteousness since they bring apostasy and iniquities into the church. That is what the abomination of desolation is the mystery of iniquity itself. Not TItus and Roman army. Not an antichrist army from Europe. Not Gog and Magog army from Russia. But armies of false prophets and christs attack Church with lyings signs and wonders that deceive those who believe a lie.
2. What does Jesus mean by "the elect"?
The chosen Elects are those who are born-again Christians. The ones who can "see" the abomination of desolation for exactly what it is, unlike the unsaved professed Christians.
3. What does Jesus mean by "this generation?"
The generation of evil, made up of professed believers under the influence of Satan from Seth to the Second Coming. It will end when all things are fulfilled at the Second Coming. I have explained this in detail on other forums. Look it up.
CC: @Red Baker
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