Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

[Timtofly]

???? The "removal of Christ our daily / continual sacrifice"??? You cannot be serious.

In contrast to the physical daily offerings in the OC temple, "But this man, after he had offered ONCE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER, sat down on the right hand of God..." Christ's blood offering in heaven's temple will never be taken away. This is blatant heresy you are proposing. There is no false god who can possibly eradicate Christ's perpetual offering for us in God's house. Not in the past, and not in the future either.

I agree fully with all you have said, until you say the above. Are you suggesting that Christ will come again a sacrificial offering for sin? When He comes again it won't be as our offering for sin, it will be as Judge!

If Satan is given 100% authority on earth for 42 months. Not a "when", but an "if". Many think it is a done thing, though it has not even happened yet.

So, if Satan is given 100% authority of the earth, yes! Salvation will be taken away. No Holy Spirit. No church. No redemption. That is the whole point, that even those who place the Second Coming after this 42 months get wrong. This period of AoD is after the Second Coming, and after the final harvest. Probably not even a billion humans left at this point on the earth.

These 42 months only have 2 literal individuals representing God on earth, who themselves go around killing people. This is not some figurative spiritual reality. This is literally no more repentance from sin. The only escape to eternal life is chopping one's head off to avoid the mark. God places the mark on individuals, when He removes their names from the Lamb's book of Life. There is no more option of life after one receives the mark. This 42 months will be worse than the time just prior to the Flood. It is not a period of tribulation and persecution. It is the Abomination of Desolation. The reason people are to flee from Jerusalem is so they can make an informed decision to chop off their head or take the mark without being coerced either way.

Satan does not want people to chop off their heads, but to receive the mark, and be eternally placed in perdition along with him. This time of the literal AoD can only happen after the Second Coming, and has never happened on the earth, not once.

Now being reprobate has happened over and over. The Flood was a judgment on a reprobate world. Sodom and Gomorrah were reprobate cities. Becoming reprobate will net you a secure spot in sheol. Having the mark and being removed from the Lamb's book of life will net you a secure spot in the LOF. By the time the 42 months are over all on earth will be marked for the LOF. The two witnesses are killed and lay dead in Jerusalem, after the 42 months, while the 7 vials are poured out for 3.5 days on Satan's empire, the entire earth. Sunday morning, the 2 witnesses arise and ascend into heaven. By 5pm, the rest of humanity are gathered at Armageddon to be destroyed by Jesus as King reclaiming His kingdom and authority. With Jesus are those on white horses who reign with their King for a thousand years, while Satan is bound.


Why on earth people think this is about 1st century Jews is beyond comprehension. It goes beyond simple symbolism, into the reality of total disobedience to God. Antiochus Epiphanes is an example, but Satan is the real thing, that could happen after the Second Coming. But this only happens after the final harvest, and only if God allows it.

The point is the salvation of the flesh: Matthew 24:21-22

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

This GT is the final harvest. The shorter the harvest the more flesh has been saved. The shorter the harvest, the less need for 42 months of AoD. Now is the time the flesh is being saved. If the GT went on for a whole 3.5 years, there would be way more people destroyed, and many more during the 42 months of AoD. Way more souls would be entering the LOF at the Second Coming, if the GT/final harvest is years long, instead of days long.

 

[Timtofly]

You're right. The Holy Spirit was explaining it.

Stop denying the Holy Spirit's explanation.

The Holy Spirit was explaining the Discourse in the Temple through Luke's Gospel. Stop trying to replace the Holy Spirit, by making Luke say something different.

 

[Timtofly]

Try Daniel 9:27. "...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and with the abominable armies he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." This is the KJV with its alternate translation in the margin.

Also Daniel 11:31, which many recognize as the actions of Antiochus IV when he came with his army against Jerusalem. "And ARMS shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate." It was the armed forces of Antiochus in Jerusalem that performed all the abominable, desolating actions in the sanctuary.

If this is the case then Jesus was alive on the earth during the whole AoD debacle, as the Antonio Fort that Herod built was already the AoD when handed to the Romans, before Jesus was even baptized. The armies were already in place for decades.

 

[Timtofly]

As you know the AOD isn’t specifically described in the scriptures, although the actions of AE4 are often used. We all have to look at other scriptures to draw a conclusion on what the AOD is.

Whatever you want to claim the AOD is, I can simply use your own argument and say you are making it up because what ever verses you use to support your view will not specifically declare that they refer to the AOD.

That means one must rightly divide the Word, and rely on context and not cherry pick when they think the Romans were and were not an AoD.

One cannot say the Romans were only an AoD in 70AD, but not any other part of the Roman occupation of Palestine. Even Josephus was smarter than you all on that point.

Josephus may not have been a Christian, but to say he was not a religious Jew, is just plain denial.

BTW: Josephus was not even the generation Jesus addressed. Josephus was born in 37AD after Jesus was even crucified. He was an historian and knew his OT. He was not even an eye witness to the ministry of Jesus Christ.

 

[grafted branch]

That means one must rightly divide the Word, and rely on context and not cherry pick when they think the Romans were and were not an AoD.

One cannot say the Romans were only an AoD in 70AD, but not any other part of the Roman occupation of Palestine. Even Josephus was smarter than you all on that point.

Josephus may not have been a Christian, but to say he was not a religious Jew, is just plain denial.

BTW: Josephus was not even the generation Jesus addressed. Josephus was born in 37AD after Jesus was even crucified. He was an historian and knew his OT. He was not even an eye witness to the ministry of Jesus Christ.

I’m not arguing for the AOD to be the Roman armies, I saying the AOD was a sacrifice made on the altar, similar to what AE4 did.

 

[covenantee]

The Holy Spirit was explaining the Discourse in the Temple through Luke's Gospel.

That's what I said. The Holy Spirit was explaining it.

"Stop trying to replace the Holy Spirit, by making Luke say something different."

 

[Davy]

Christ's Olive Discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are about SEVEN MAIN SIGNS OF THE END of this world which parallel the SEALS OF REVELATION 6.

Jesus gave those 7 SIGNS of the END to His Church, starting with the foundation of His Church, His Apostles that were with Him upon the Mount of Olives. Those in Christ are to KNOW those SIGNS, and be watching them leading up to Christ's future return.

If you are in a church denomination that DENIES Christ's Olivet discourse, and refuses to teach it to the congregation, then you are in a DECEIVED CHURCH. Here's an example why I say that...

The Pre-tribulation Rapture theory some churches wrongly... teach that Christ comes to 'rapture' His Church PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation". But Jesus in His Olivet discourse did NOT say that, but instead showed His coming to gather His saints (His Church) is AFTER the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

Those Pre-trib Rapture churches do not put the 'Pre' onto that Pre-tribulational Rapture phrase that they are teaching; they just say "rapture", and then let you be deceived into thinking they are talking about the actual gathering by Christ written in God's Word. But they are not, their idea that Jesus gathers His Church PRIOR... to the tribulation is a creation by men! No such idea is written anywhere in God's Word about a Pre-trib Rapture.

Here is where it gets even more serious...

Because Lord Jesus taught emphatically... in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His saints is AFTER the tribulation, then what does it mean when the Pre-trib Rapture theory churches instead teach opposite? What do they do for their congregations when they do cover some of the events in those Bible Chapters about the day of Christ's future return? The Answer to that is simple...

... they simply BYPASS those Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 verse sections where Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church is AFTER the tribulation. Some of them refuse to teach those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Chapters totally, and instead only pick-n'-choose from Luke 21.

Doing that is what kind of sign about those Pre-trib Rapture type churches? "Oh, but you don't understand Davy", some might say, "they are still preaching The Gospel and teaching Bible," one deceived might say. And I have conversed with many of them on many other subjects in God's Word and it was fruitful! But this I know, when a church blatantly follows a leaven doctrine by men 'added' to The written Word of God that is so obvious that it is false, then how many other ideas do they 'add' to God's Word that you cannot trust? God is not fooled. If we do not keep His Word, He won't open His Word up to you in understanding by The Holy Spirit. And OPPOSING the very Words of Jesus Christ where Jesus revealed His coming and gathering of His Church is AFTER... the tribulation, that is a very serious matter!

And that is only ONE example of men's 'leaven' that some denominations push against Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS for the END of this world. Some falsely preach that ALL those SIGNS have already been fulfilled, back in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple. Yes, that means they wrongly believe Jesus' return already happened, when it has not.

 

[3 Resurrections]

If this is the case then Jesus was alive on the earth during the whole AoD debacle, as the Antonio Fort that Herod built was already the AoD when handed to the Romans, before Jesus was even baptized. The armies were already in place for decades.

No, you misunderstand. Christ predicted to Jerusalem in Luke 19:43-44 when armies would come to surround the city of Jerusalem and what they would do once they came. "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

This is describing the siege conditions which would result from Jerusalem being surrounded by enemy armies - both Zealot and Roman. This is more than just the occupying Roman soldiers being garrisoned in Jerusalem inside the Antonia Fortress. This is describing armies surrounding Jerusalem's perimeter. This is a siege period beginning, and what would result from that time onward until the stones inside Jerusalem were all torn down in the AD 66-70 period of desolations.

 

[ewq1938]

No, you misunderstand. Christ predicted to Jerusalem in Luke 19:43-44 when armies would come to surround the city of Jerusalem and what they would do once they came. "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

This is describing the siege conditions which would result from Jerusalem being surrounded by enemy armies - both Zealot and Roman. This is more than just the occupying Roman soldiers being garrisoned in Jerusalem inside the Antonia Fortress. This is describing armies surrounding Jerusalem's perimeter. This is a siege period beginning, and what would result from that time onward.

Jerusalem has never been laid even with the ground. It also still has stones laying upon stones from the 1st century.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jerusalem has never been laid even with the ground. It also still has stones laying upon stones from the 1st century.

That is false. Christ said in Luke 19:44 that Jerusalem's enemies would not leave in her one stone upon another inside Jerusalem. All would be torn down and laid level with the ground, and this happened. Historians verify this, saying that if travelers came to the site after the AD 70 war's end, looking for Jerusalem, that they would not even be able to recognize that they had arrived at the site due to the total destruction.

 

[Davy]

No, you misunderstand. Christ predicted to Jerusalem in Luke 19:43-44 when armies would come to surround the city of Jerusalem and what they would do once they came. "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

This is describing the siege conditions which would result from Jerusalem being surrounded by enemy armies - both Zealot and Roman. This is more than just the occupying Roman soldiers being garrisoned in Jerusalem inside the Antonia Fortress. This is describing armies surrounding Jerusalem's perimeter. This is a siege period beginning, and what would result from that time onward.

Brethren... above is an example of those who simply bypass Christ's Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Olivet discourse Chapters, and instead try to push that Luke 21 is about the events of the Romans destroying Jerusalem back in 70 A.D.

Luke 21:5-7
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked Him, saying, "Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?"
KJV

In the Matt.24 version of the above, Jesus' disciples asked Him what the sign of His coming and of the end of the world would be. So we must not forget what the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 declare when studying here in Luke 21.

Preterists and Historicists like to claim verse 6 above was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple, and scattered the Jews. But in reality, the end of the world did NOT happen back then, so all one need do is a little thinking to know 70 A.D. was but a 'type' for the coming FINAL DESTRUCTION on the Temple Mount at Jesus' FUTURE return, like His Apostles pointed to in Matthew 24:3. (Didn't I say it is important to not forget the other Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions of this?)

Preterism and Historicism also... likes to push many of the rest of these Luke 21 verses as already having been fulfilled back in 70 A.D. Fact of the matter still is, per the question in Matthew 24:3 by His disciples, the not one stone atop another MUST be applied to the time of the very END at Christ's future RETURN. What stones are still standing there at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem today? Well, there's the huge stones of the Western Wall of the old temple complex, and then Islam's Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount. How easy is this that not one stone atop another ain't really fulfilled yet, but that 70 A.D. only served as a 'type'?

Luke 21:20
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
KJV

Then with the above verse, there's some that push 'leaven' doctrines of men who try to treat that above "desolation" idea by those armies as the "abomination of desolation" idol prophecy from the Book of Daniel which Jesus quoted in the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions (again, didn't I mention how important it is to not forget the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions of this Olive discourse? One must... keep all three versions together to understand).

The "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel is NOT... about a destruction by those armies on the last day. That Luke 21:20 verse is pointing to the final day of this world when Jesus returns to fight with His army from Heaven (Rev.19 and 16). That event is about the future battle of Armageddon and the battle of Zechariah 14. The "abomination of desolation" prophecy form Daniel 11:31 is about the placing of an IDOL abomination inside the future Jew's 3rd temple they are getting ready to build for the coming Antichrist to sit in. That will be "great tribulation" timing when that happens IDOL is setup, even is what kicks off the time of "great tribulation" (see also the end of Rev.13 about the "another beast" and the IDOL "image of the beast" he will setup in false worship in JERUSALEM near the very end of this world.)

Luke 21:22
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

That above is continuing the subject of verse 20 about those armies surrounding Jerusalem on the final day of this world. Their destruction is what that "desolation" idea of verse 20 is about. That will be the day of Christ's future return with His army. That battle is further described in Rev.19, Rev.16 on the 7th Vial, in Zechariah 14, in Zephaniah 3, and in Ezekiel 38 & 39, and also in Isaiah 61:2 which Jesus did not quote at the start of His Ministry per Luke 4, because it was not yet time for that event.

Luke 21:24
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
KJV

The above verse in Luke 21 does... point to the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, THAT IS... up to that part in 'red'. That part in 'red' has NOT happened yet today; it is for the great tribulation time at the end of this world. That is written in Revelation 11 and Romans 11, for when the Gentiles will tread the holy city for 42 months tribulation time, and when the fullness of the Gentiles will be fulfilled by Christ's return, as per Apostle Paul in Romans 11.

Thus the Luke 21 version of Christ's Olivet discourse appears to point to the 70 A.D. destruction by the Romans in just TWO small places. And the rest of the Luke 21 Chapter past verse 4 is about events for the very END leading up to Christ's future return on the last day of this present world; just like the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 versions do also.

 

[ewq1938]

That is false. Christ said in Luke 19:44 that Jerusalem's enemies would not leave in her one stone upon another inside Jerusalem. All would be torn down and laid level with the ground, and this happened. Historians verify this, saying that if travelers came to the site after the AD 70 war's end, looking for Jerusalem, that they would not even be able to recognize that they had arrived at the site due to the total destruction.

The city was not leveled to the ground.

Wiki:

On Tisha B'Av, 4 August 70 CE[10][11] or 30 August 70 CE,[12] forces finally overwhelmed the defenders and set fire to the Second Temple.[13] Resistance continued for another month, but eventually the upper city was taken as well, and the city was burned to the ground. Titus spared only the three towers of the Herodian citadel as a testimony to the city's former might.

The fact that these buildings were not taken down further proves the prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 AD.

 

[Timtofly]

That's what I said. The Holy Spirit was explaining it.

"Stop trying to replace the Holy Spirit, by making Luke say something different."

The Temple Discourse was for all.

The Olivet Discourse was in private for the church until the Second Coming.

How can you claim the Second Coming explains the first century?

 

[Timtofly]

I’m not arguing for the AOD to be the Roman armies, I saying the AOD was a sacrifice made on the altar, similar to what AE4 did.

"stand in the holy place"

Matthew indicates more than just a daily sacrifice. God will remove all Atonement from creation. Not just a different type of Atonement.

 

[Timtofly]

No, you misunderstand. Christ predicted to Jerusalem in Luke 19:43-44 when armies would come to surround the city of Jerusalem and what they would do once they came. "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

This is describing the siege conditions which would result from Jerusalem being surrounded by enemy armies - both Zealot and Roman. This is more than just the occupying Roman soldiers being garrisoned in Jerusalem inside the Antonia Fortress. This is describing armies surrounding Jerusalem's perimeter. This is a siege period beginning, and what would result from that time onward until the stones inside Jerusalem were all torn down in the AD 66-70 period of desolations.

That has nothing to do with Matthew nor the AoD. I already pointed out Luke was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[covenantee]

The Temple Discourse was for all.

The Olivet Discourse was in private for the church until the Second Coming.

How can you claim the Second Coming explains the first century?

So you believe that Jesus told two different stories in two different discourses.

Provide a link to the term and explanation of the "Olivet discourses".

Then provide just one name, with verbatim supporting evidence, of any recognized historical expositor who agrees with you.

Just one name.

 

[Timtofly]

So you believe that Jesus told two different stories in two different discourses.

Provide a link to the term and explanation of the "Olivet discourses".

Then provide just one name, with verbatim supporting evidence, of any recognized historical expositor who agrees with you.

Just one name.

Call it whatever you want.

Jesus taught in the Temple about the Temple.

Jesus taught on the Mount of Olives about the Second Coming.

 

[covenantee]

Call it whatever you want.

Jesus taught in the Temple about the Temple.

Jesus taught on the Mount of Olives about the Second Coming.

Have you joined another cult?

 

[3 Resurrections]

The fact that these buildings were not taken down further proves the prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 AD.

Those towers were part of the walls of Jerusalem. Christ's prediction was that Jerusalem's enemies would not leave "IN THEE one stone upon another". That was INSIDE the walls of Jerusalem where everything would be torn down. Which did happen in the AD 70 period.

 

[3 Resurrections]

That has nothing to do with Matthew nor the AoD. I already pointed out Luke was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Luke was giving an account of the same prediction as Matthew did. The AOD included. All of it was related to the destruction of Jerusalem along with the second-coming return of Christ. This return took place while there was still that Jerusalem temple in existence with its eastern gate - the location across from the Mount of Olives where Christ was prophesied to return. The fact that this temple with its eastern gate was torn down proves that it has already served its purpose in providing the location and the timing for Christ's second coming return.