Uncovering the Devil's Strategy

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,624
8,449
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is for good reason we will lay our crowns at HIS feet. And we must run the race lawfully to receive the crown.
1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For you are our glory and joy.


When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are
What about:
Revelation 3:20-22 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. [21] To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. [22] He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lizbeth

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,027
21,606
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Epi believes people can be saved by their own righteousness. If that were true, we wouldn't need the gospel, and missionaries beginning with Jesus and the apostles lay their lives down for no reason. The gospel is needed precisely because man's own righteousness can't save him (salvation meaning to escape the wrath of God and inherit eternal life).
Dishonest and false. You are oversimplifying Jesus as a religious symbol to be embraced. Evangelists call people as guests to the wedding feast of the Lord. Guests are NOT saints. Guests are NOT the Bride. The call of a human is not the same as a direct call from heaven.

Jesus said to fill His house with guests. An evangelist does this. Read Matthew 22.

Maybe you have attended a wedding yourself? Maybe as a bride and maybe as a guest. Were you able to discern the difference? Did you wear your wedding dress to someone else's wedding? What would people think of you if you did that? What does the bible say about those who sit in the wrong place?
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,624
8,449
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Peter says how the devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking who he may devour.
Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore you shall receive the greater damnation.

There seems to be a devourer but it always points to devouring one another. Galatians 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another.

If our focus is always on some mystical creature with horns and sharp teeth lurking around to devour, we maybe miss who it is that devours. To keep our focus on a creature that devours, we never have to address or acknowledge our devouring of others. What of when Paul spoke of being delivered from the mouth of a Lion that devours and roars…
Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,027
21,606
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I hear this all the time on this board, 'I only follow what the Spirit has taught me and my understanding of the Bible is the right one, and I will quote texts to prove it'.

That's what you do by quoting various authors...humans and your own ideas. But quote the bible.... not so much. You seem to prefer your food pre-digested. Why not seek the Lord and get an actual testimony. You rail against my testimony in ignorance.,

And I have an actual testimony and calling from the Lord...not just from a bible or a book.
LOL so now we have tens of thousands of interpretations.

You and others who only read books about God...yes. Many human interpretations...no actual testimony. So many opinions but who has actually seen and entered into kingdom life?
Paul said: This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. (KJV)2 Corinthians 13:1

So if we are a lone wolf and do not line up with the early church doctrines, we are deluded.

If you read the bible for yourself you would see that I am speaking pure doctrine...backed up by both Testaments. But you would need some spiritual discernment.
Oh yes, even worse, 4 paths when in Genesis we find only two: tree of life and tree of mans understanding.

Read the bible.
Indeed but guests can be asked to leave when their sins are revealed. All man are worthy of a chance but most listen to the god of this world.
Turn from your own understanding and opinions of men....and call on the Lord for His visitation.
 
Last edited:

David Lamb

Active Member
Feb 21, 2025
265
168
43
76
Paignton
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore you shall receive the greater damnation.

There seems to be a devourer but it always points to devouring one another. Galatians 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another.

If our focus is always on some mystical creature with horns and sharp teeth lurking around to devour, we maybe miss who it is that devours. To keep our focus on a creature that devours, we never have to address or acknowledge our devouring of others. What of when Paul spoke of being delivered from the mouth of a Lion that devours and roars…
Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
But the post to which you were replying didn't mention "some mystical creature with horns and sharp teeth." The bible only uses the lion (which does have sharp teeth) to illustrate the way in which the devil acts. The idea that the devil is some red-skinned being with a forked tail and so on does not come from the bible.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,626
6,051
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
This is what is going on in the hearts and heads of far too many in Protestantism. These think it nothing to claim God's righteousness for themselves while denying the words of the Bible that speak of the righteous. So they have a HUGE double sin. First denying what God has justified through imputation (human righteousness)...and then claiming for oneself (religious narcissism) as an invented imputation the very righteousness of God to themselves. As in...I'm not righteous (true) but I'm as righteous as God because the bible tells me that (false).

The bible does not say you can claim God's righteousness for yourself. This is a ploy of the devil to get you rejected.

What the bible ACTUALLY says is that God's imputes righteousness (human righteousness) to some either by faith or works. On a very few God covers with His righteousness by translating them into the higher walk in the Spirit...where there is no spot or wrinkle of sin.

Religious dogmatism makes a mockery of both standards. For this cause God is blasphemed in the world.
You are teaching confusion Epi, or is it gaslighting? Our new man is created after the image of He who created it. Something we should be grateful for and love the Lord for doing that. Not something to justify ourselves with. But HE has justified us. Thankfully because we are not justified by our own righteousness. Rather we are justified by FAITH in He who justifies us........not treating us as our sins deserve, and not counting them against us.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,624
8,449
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The idea that the devil is some red-skinned being with a forked tail and so on does not come from the bible.
Agree. I didn’t mean to suggest the post I was responding to claimed or said anything about this depiction of the devil. I was only commenting to share thoughts about the devourer. Personally, I think even the flood cast out of the dragons mouth is mens many doctrines which drown men in perdition. Point is, as I child I was told fables that I believed but in reading, to me there is legitimate teaching in the word for who it is that destroys. If someone says…prove to me there was ever a flood that drowned men in perdition…I’d point to mens religions and ask if the person asking is drowning in all that is being said and taught, to where they struggle to stay above the water….
 

David Lamb

Active Member
Feb 21, 2025
265
168
43
76
Paignton
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Agree. I didn’t mean to suggest the post I was responding to claimed or said anything about this depiction of the devil. I was only commenting to share thoughts about the devourer. Personally, I think even the flood cast out of the dragons mouth is mens many doctrines which drown men in perdition. Point is, as I child I was told fables that I believed but in reading, to me there is legitimate teaching in the word for who it is that destroys. If someone says…prove to me there was ever a flood that drowned men in perdition…I’d point to mens religions and ask if the person asking is drowning in all that is being said and taught, to where they struggle to stay above the water….
Sorry for misunderstanding your post. No offence intended, I assure you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VictoryinJesus

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,626
6,051
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Haha. Why do you have to twist everything you read?

You have to think beyond religious slogans to understand the bible and what I write.

I never said that anyone is saved by their own righteousness. Before God NO FLESH is justified. It is God who justifies. Stop the strawmanning and obfuscating. Be honest.

If you refuse God's mercy on others you will surely lose any potential justification for yourself.

And by claiming God's righteousness for yourself you are doing far worse than claiming to be righteous yourself. Religious conditioning has made many to lose all common sense. No one can escape God's judgment who claim God's righteousness for themselves. Only severely indoctrinated people fall for that ruse.


This is false. Cornelius was a righteous man who was invited into the higher walk of the Spirit. But only those who have walk in Christ's power will understand this.


The Lord calls who He wishes. He draws sinner to repentance and seekers into holiness.


You are reading this as a religious maxim...which bends the truth around your way of thinking...which is NOT renewed. Christ is the Saviour of all men...meaning no man comes to the Father (and His holiness) apart from Christ. Jesus purchased back His own creation from the devil. And God will have mercy on the righteous and the God-fearers...whatever their dogmatic understanding is.

With a few, God calls into Christ to walk in His power and put on holiness. When a saint does this he is wearing the righteousness of saints as he matures into Christ.

The rest of your comments are just religious vapourings that you are justifying yourself with. But such a superficial grasp of things has no power to save...quite the opposite.
Ironically it's your doctrine that is unmerciful Epi. And that's why your fruit is the same, which so often shows in your posts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hepzibah

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,626
6,051
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For you are our glory and joy.

Amen to that, but I think there is more than one way to think of the crowns we receive, or will receive. Running the race so as to win the prize...that prize being a crown, a reward. Winning Jesus, in a manner of speaking, as I think of it, as He is our very great reward. I had in mind particularly the verse where it talks about striving for the mastery, he is not crowned except he run lawfully.

What about:
Revelation 3:20-22 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. [21] To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. [22] He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.
Doors are two way and allow for entrance in both directions....the bible also says to ask, seek and knock and the door will be opened to us, etc. And to seek the Lord while He may be found. At some point the door is shut from His end, and then it's too late to try and enter in. On a personal level, I believe that is at the end of everyone's life, and on a broader general level it will be at the end of the age.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,852
5,545
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is what is going on in the hearts and heads of far too many in Protestantism. These think it nothing to claim God's righteousness for themselves while denying the words of the Bible that speak of the righteous. So they have a HUGE double sin. First denying what God has justified through imputation (human righteousness)...and then claiming for oneself (religious narcissism) as an invented imputation the very righteousness of God to themselves. As in...I'm not righteous (true) but I'm as righteous as God because the bible tells me that (false).

The bible does not say you can claim God's righteousness for yourself. This is a ploy of the devil to get you rejected.

What the bible ACTUALLY says is that God's imputes righteousness (human righteousness) to some either by faith or works. On a very few God covers with His righteousness by translating them into the higher walk in the Spirit...where there is no spot or wrinkle of sin.

Religious dogmatism makes a mockery of both standards. For this cause God is blasphemed in the world.

Good luck.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,624
8,449
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Amen to that, but I think there is more than one way to think of the crowns we receive, or will receive. Running the race so as to win the prize...that prize being a crown, a reward. Winning Jesus, in a manner of speaking, as I think of it, as He is our very great reward.
Of course this is only my perspective. I realize everyone has one. I’m curious how what Paul speaks of as they are his joy, his crown of rejoicing in the presence of the Lord …is not the same as “winning Jesus” where “He is our very great reward”? I think of when He appears, to be as He is. And also, to share in His likeness. The prize …is “the prize” not to be found in our own righteousness but being found in the righteousness that comes from God. <which Fruit is of Christ. How is that not the same as “winning Jesus”. I don’t mean you…But there is something about us that seeks a different prize, where there has to be something grander won or a better crown. Where we have to define it differently to fit with the worlds view on a crown to lay at His feet. 2 Timothy 1:12 KJV
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. <that sounds to me like laying it at his feet. Knowing this great crown of rejoicing, the joy. Race. Race.
Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, [2] looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.



Another is the passage on adding these things unto you fits with the crown of rejoicing Paul speaks of, which to me is what is added when the Word says to seek Him first and His kingdom…and all these things will be added. It’s speaking of what to eat where you will never hungry, what to drink where you will never thirst again, and what clothing to put on. In the list it rises to the peak being “brotherly love” or “brotherly kindness” depending in the translation. We speak of winning something by running a race…a crown. Personally I think Paul says a lot regarding what it is to “win Christ”. Isn’t a crown of rejoicing enough? I don’t think it’s lesser that they were Paul’s crown of rejoicing, his joy…but that is exactly why Jesus Christ endured the cross…if was for the joy set before Him that He endured the shame…. Although He is not ashamed to call them brothers.
I had in mind particularly the verse where it talks about striving for the mastery, he is not crowned except he run lawfully.
What is “he is not crowned except he run lawfully” Galatians 5:14-15 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

That says it all to me…there is no crown of rejoicing where you hate your brother. (I don’t mean you but thinking of the eating if we hate our brother then we remain in darkness still.)
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,027
21,606
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Ironically it's your doctrine that is unmerciful Epi. And that's why your fruit is the same, which so often shows in your posts.
Does God show mercy to hypocrites? Or does He rebuke them...for their own good? Did the Pharisees think Jesus was merciful? With the merciful God shows mercy. God loves the righteous. But with willful and stubborn sinners He shows wrath. He resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,027
21,606
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I think many people fall into error because they think they understand the bible when they clearly do not. I don't find many honest people among those who claim to believe. What will God do with dishonest "believers"? Can something that is bent be unbent?

Those who have received another gospel from men think the gospel I uphold is false...because it isn't carnal enough for their acceptance.

But I challenge anyone to actually listen to the words of Jesus and explain how...with HIS words...how these two statements work together.

1. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved! Saved to what?

2. Many will say Lord, Lord, and Jesus will say...go away I never knew you! Go where exactly?

Where does Jesus put these two together in His teachings? And please no bible twisting and religious opinions (10,000 interpretations)

Keep it real and simple. Quote Jesus and only Jesus.
 
Last edited:

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,624
8,449
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Doors are two way and allow for entrance in both directions....the bible also says to ask, seek and knock and the door will be opened to us, etc. And to seek the Lord while He may be found. At some point the door is shut from His end, and then it's too late to try and enter in. On a personal level, I believe that is at the end of everyone's life, and on a broader general level it will be at the end of the age.
Again this is only my perspective but I genuinely think we have it backwards. I can’t convince anyone, but if I genuinely think this, why wouldn’t I share it? I’ll give you the main reason I think we have it seriously backwards and it’s going to be sad that we have it backwards.

Luke 16:9 Lexicon: "And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

Jesus tells them to go make friends with the unrighteousness of mammon…so that when it fails. He knew it would fail. Of course. when they refuse to retain the knowledge of God in their mind/heart, God hands them over to a reprobate mind. When they blasphemy His name, God hands them over that they might learn (He came not to destroy, but to save) that they might learn not to blasphemy His name. The word says give them over so that the flesh be destroyed, yet the spirit may be saved. In the ten virgins, five are sent away and later return “knocking”. You pointed out ask and it shall be given. Knock and you will find. Five are sent away to the market place to buy. It will fail. They asked for the wise to share their oil. I get how many ways it’s interpreted. But consider the high mindedness behind every one thinks they are the wise and never the foolish. The five foolish do what Jesus Christ spoke of …go make friends with the unrighteousness of mammon …so that when it failsthey will receive you in to eternal habitations. I get some say hell is eternal. But I genuinely think Jesus was not cursing them by suggesting such things but knew that when it fails…it’s His body which is eternal that is supposed to receive them back from failing. He does stand outside and knock. It’s their brothers returning …what did Jesus mean when He said yet they will hear Me say “depart from Me. I never knew you.”
Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Yes, I genuinely think we have it backwards.
1 John 3:16-18 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. [17] But whoso has this world's good, and sees his brother have need, and shuts up (the door) his bowels of compassion from him, how dwells the love of God in him? 18] My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
 
Last edited:

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,624
8,449
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Can something that is bent be unbent?
Ecclesiastes 1:15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.

Yet
Mark 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

?
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,027
21,606
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Ecclesiastes 1:15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.

Yet
Mark 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

?
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
To a bent person anything straight looks bent...because they are looking down their own crooked way of thinking. All who say I am a false teacher are themselves false teachers. All who say I preach another gospel are just condemning themselves, since they are following the ways of men and a false conjured gospel that rewards sin.
 

Hepzibah

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
1,427
1,060
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
@Kokyu

As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).



In the same letter we read:



He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.



Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6



Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9



He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6



He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4



Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7



My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1





John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.



The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.



We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:



1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.



The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.





In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-



1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)

2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven

3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.



Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-



1)We are deceived and remain in our sin

2)There is no truth in us

3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.



So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.



Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis.
 

Hepzibah

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
1,427
1,060
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
@Kokyu
Please tell me what you understand the phrase sinless perfection, which I do not ue before we can continue
 
Last edited:

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
4,626
6,051
113
67
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I think many people fall into error because they think they understand the bible when they clearly do not. I don't find many honest people among those who claim to believe. What will God do with dishonest "believers"? Can something that is bent be unbent?

Those who have received another gospel from men think the gospel I uphold is false...because it isn't carnal enough for their acceptance.

But I challenge anyone to actually listen to the words of Jesus and explain how...with HIS words...how these two statements work together.

1. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved! Saved to what?

2. Many will say Lord, Lord, and Jesus will say...go away I never knew you! Go where exactly?

Where does Jesus put these two together in His teachings? And please no bible twisting and religious opinions (10,000 interpretations)

Keep it real and simple. Quote Jesus and only Jesus.
Actually I perceive it is you who are too carnal, too black and white, too literal, in your thinking.