Under sin

kerwin · Sep 12, 2016

FHII,

I am using a broader context as I am using the teaching from John 8, Romans 6, Galatians 5, Ephesians 4:2, and probably other places of I am not aware of.

In Romans 3 it is fairly clear it is speaking of the old self and not the new self created like God in true holiness and righteousness. Paul also calls the old man a slave to sin in Romans 6 and states those the walk according to the flesh sin in Galatians 5.

I have not looked into why Paul was teaching about the faith of Abraham being credited to him as righteousness. I understand that if one has faith God will do something he said he would then it is as if it were already done. Of course he does not require that faith unless he made that a condition of doing it.

FHII · Sep 12, 2016

Ok Kerwin... I was simply showing that Paul was saying we establish the law by faith. We don't establish the law by keeping it, because Paul already laid out (and continued to do so) that it was impossible.

So Kerwin.... I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not sure what your point is. Are you stating I am wrong in my assertation that we establish the law through or by faith?

A bigger point I am trying to make is this: Some folks find a Bible verse and draw a box (a wall, if you will) around it. They quote that verse as support without regard for any other verse around it. When you do that you run the risk of taking the verse out of context.

Its done a lot!

kerwin · Sep 12, 2016

FHII,

It depends on what you mean by "establish the Law". I know Paul's meaning by reading his writings and in I will be more familiar with yours. Paul means we walk according to the Spirit by faith and so establish the Law.

Yes, it is done a lot. I also have seen those who misinterpret words in such a way to cause one part of Scripture to conflict with another. The later makes it hard to understand what a person mans when they use such misinterpreted words and especially scriptures.

FHII · Sep 12, 2016

kerwin said:
FHII,

It depends on what you mean by "establish the Law". I know Paul's meaning by reading his writings and in I will be more familiar with yours. Paul means we walk according to the Spirit by faith and so establish the Law.

Yes, it is done a lot. I also have seen those who misinterpret words in such a way to cause one part of Scripture to conflict with another. The later makes it hard to understand what a person mans when they use such misinterpreted words and especially scriptures.

Yea, ok. Well... Thanks for sharing.

kerwin · Sep 12, 2016

FHII,

Sorry, I used "be" for "become".

heretoeternity · Sep 13, 2016

FHII said:
Yea, ok. Well... Thanks for sharing.

Hebrews 8 says God says "I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds, and I will be their God and they will be my people".....
If you are one of God's people you will have these written on your hearts and minds, and as Apostle John says in 1st John...for this is the love of God that you keep His commandments and they are not burdensome"...

H. Richard · Sep 15, 2016

heretoeternity said:
Hebrews 8 says God says "I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds, and I will be their God and they will be my people".....
If you are one of God's people you will have these written on your hearts and minds, and as Apostle John says in 1st John...for this is the love of God that you keep His commandments and they are not burdensome"...

Why do you quote a promise made to the Jews as if it is a promise to the Gentiles?

Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
NKJV

heretoeternity · Sep 15, 2016

Ok Kerwin... I was simply showing that Paul was saying we establish the law by faith. We don't establish the law by keeping it, because Paul already laid out (and continued to do so) that it was impossible.

So Kerwin.... I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not sure what your point is. Are you stating I am wrong in my assertation that we establish the law through or by faith?

A bigger point I am trying to make is this: Some folks find a Bible verse and draw a box (a wall, if you will) around it. They quote that verse as support without regard for any other verse around it. When you do that you run the risk of taking the verse out of context.

Its done a lot!

The law that Paul was referring to that was impossible to keep is the 613 or so laws of Moses, the sacrificial, circumcision, festival, feast, food, cleanliness etc laws...go to Acts 15 for abolition of these with the exception of 4.....
This has nothing to do with the 10 Commandments, which are the law of Love, and Jesus reiterated keeping these commandments throughout the Gospels...

FHII · Sep 15, 2016

heretoeternity said:
The law that Paul was referring to that was impossible to keep is the 613 or so laws of Moses, the sacrificial, circumcision, festival, feast, food, cleanliness etc laws...go to Acts 15 for abolition of these with the exception of 4.....
This has nothing to do with the 10 Commandments, which are the law of Love, and Jesus reiterated keeping these commandments throughout the Gospels...

Yea... Look, I already debunked that. The 10 commandments are passed away. Its not in your 6 verse bible but it is stated in the bible the rest of us follow.

heretoeternity · Sep 15, 2016

FHII said:
Yea... Look, I already debunked that. The 10 commandments are passed away. Its not in your 6 verse bible but it is stated in the bible the rest of us follow.

Lol....you and the rest can follow any false teachings you want, obviously....however God's ten commandments will endure forever, as the moral law for all to follow...failure to follow this law of God is SIN..1st John...sin is transgression of God's law...

kerwin · Sep 16, 2016

Heretoeternity,

It is easy to debunk what you claim as it is not written in Scripture.

Put your finger on that commandment that commands one to give to charity. You cannot find it in the Ten because that is not where it is written.

That facts debunks the tenet you hold to.

The Law of Love is greater than the Ten though they are guide-points much like dots on a piece of paper can guide one to the image they reveal. Don't try to so hard to limit God's Word as the picture then revealed becomes warped.

H. Richard · Sep 16, 2016

heretoeternity said:
Lol....you and the rest can follow any false teachings you want, obviously....however God's ten commandments will endure forever, as the moral law for all to follow...failure to follow this law of God is SIN..1st John...sin is transgression of God's law...

You seem fixated on keeping the law. You say nothing about God (Jesus) keeping the law for us. But I can understand since you only see the verses that condemn mankind. There has been volumes written to you and you can never seem to see them so I will not include any.

kerwin · Sep 16, 2016

H.Richard,

What do you mean by "Jesus keeping the Law for us"?

heretoeternity · Sep 16, 2016

kerwin said:
H.Richard,

What do you mean by "Jesus keeping the Law for us"?

He will have trouble answering that, because it is non Biblical false teaching....

heretoeternity · Sep 16, 2016

H. Richard said:
You seem fixated on keeping the law. You say nothing about God (Jesus) keeping the law for us. But I can understand since you only see the verses that condemn mankind. There has been volumes written to you and you can never seem to see them so I will not include any.

God's law does not condemn mankind, it is the law of Love according to Jesus and Apostle James...you are still confused with the law of Moses, the old sacrificial system....
God has written His law on my heart and mind, and no problem to keep...as He said in Hebrews..I will write My laws on their hearts and minds and I will be their God and they will be my people"....Apostle John in 1st John says "this is the love of God that we keep His commandments and they are NOT burdensome".....
HR you seem to disagree with everyone in the Bible, including God, in trying to push your own false teachings...

kerwin · Sep 17, 2016

Heretoeternity,

It is a vague statement as it does not mention the "How".

heretoeternity · Sep 17, 2016

Vague? The whole Bible must be "vague" to you then right?

kerwin · Sep 18, 2016

heretoeternity

Some of it is so only those that are guided by the Spirit of God find the truth. It is hidden from the rest.

Jesus specifically tells us about his words. (Matthew 13:10-16) Peter also speaks of Paul and other writings that are hard to understand. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Some of it is hidden because we are not of the same culture nor do we speak the same language as those it was specifically addressed to. It serves the same purpose as those that were intentionally phrased in that manner in the first place.

Controversy often involves such passages because they involve misunderstandings though there is some that involve easy to understand ones as well because their desires twist the mind of certain people whom want to believe in some words but not others; while other individuals want to make themselves important by proclaiming a new gospel. Scripture is true when it states the heart deceives; for it even deceives the mind.

kerwin · Sep 18, 2016

Heretoeternity,

I could interpret H.Richard's word to mean that Jesus both gives us the Spirit to walk by and then empowers us to do so. I do not think that is what he meant.

TopherNelson · Sep 18, 2016

Jesus says, "love fulfill the law because it does not harm your neighbor."

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