Your problem is your fixation with Paul and misinterpretation of his epistles...seems your fixation is based on looking for ways to get out of keeping God's law, the ten commandments, instead of ways to keep them...remember Paul cannot save you, as you seem to think...only Jesus, His teachings in the Gospels, and His sacrifice on the Cross can save you...As Peter warns in 2nd Peter 3.16...you misinterpret Paul's messages to your own destruction...1st John says this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and they are not burdensome!....H. Richard said:
Under sin
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***heretoeternity said:
I don't have a problem. It is clear to me that Jesus taught the law to those under the law. Those in Christ are dead to the law. All you are doing is what the Judaizers were doing to Paul's convert; get them back under the law.
Rom 6:10-12
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
NKJV
Verse 12 is what many use to put those of faith back under the law. But that is not what it says. Those who have faith In Jesus' work on the cross are walking in faith and the law is dead to them
Rom 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another — to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
NKJV
If a person, like many on this forum, are so interested in sin then they are not walking in the Spirit.
The Old covenant law is replaced with the new covenant law. I asked you guys to study about Ancient Near East covenants for this purpose:H. Richard said:
Each covenant has its own law. However, we follow the same commandment, "a new commandment I give to you, to love the Lord God and love your neighbor, for this hang all the laws and prophet". "Love harms no one, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
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The law as you may know it is not eternal. The spirit of the Law is.heretoeternity said:
How do you murder if there is no death? Only by hating.
How do you commit adultery without marriage? It is likened to idolatry.
How do you practice idolatry without idols? By putting something before God.
How do you not keep the sabbath when you are in God's rest? By going out of it and doing your own thing.
H.Richard,
That is how I was taught to address people in letter or memo.
Since you custom is different then perhaps you could let me know how to address a post in agreement with that custom. Thank you.
That is how I was taught to address people in letter or memo.
Since you custom is different then perhaps you could let me know how to address a post in agreement with that custom. Thank you.
H.Richard,
You quoted:
Rom 6:10-12
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
NKJV
What do you think the command "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts" means?
You quoted:
Rom 6:10-12
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
NKJV
What do you think the command "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts" means?
*** Notice the box around thje above. If you use the QUOTE button it will put the post you are replying to in a box.kerwin said:
The answer in your question is that if you are trying to live by commandments you are letting sin reign in your body.
I am dead to sins of the flesh because I am ""IN CHRIST"". As it says above in verse 11.
***lforrest said:
Rom 14:5-6
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
NKJV
Why do you judge others about the Sabbath day?
Thank you! I did see that but I find it burdensome to use the quote int hose case I see it as unnecessary or detrimental to understanding. I thought there was another custom here.H. Richard said:
I will try to remember to use it when it does not distract from the conversation.
H. Richard said:
I think you are coming from the point of Paul's words to the effect that "before the Law came there was no sin". His words are hard to understand but elsewhere he speaks of those that walk according to the Spirit not doing the sins of the flesh. The Law makes us aware of our sins but the Spirit sets us free from them. It is the freedom and not the awareness Paul is addressing in Romans 6:12.
The answer in your question is that if you are trying to live by commandments you are letting sin reign in your body.
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I don't think you understood what I was saying. I was speaking of things in the heaven, things true for those living by the Spirit.H. Richard said:
They would obey many of his commands without even knowing them.
Salvation by works is like trying to push a heavy cart yourself. But suppose you try to push a cart with a horse, your find that doesn't work either as the horse will push the cart off the road. But when you put the cart behind the horse it can traverse the road easily. So it is for those who live by the Spirit.
Do you know what you are talking about?lforrest said:
Of course Jesus introduced the "spirit' of the law by making it a sin to "hate your brother for know reason" that is equivalent to murder..etc...
God's law is written on the hearts and minds of His people, and He is their God"...Hebrews 8
The Sabbath day was created by God, when He created the seventh day of the week, and made it a rest day, He blessed the day and sanctified it..NO other day of the week was given that special treatment by the creator...so if you do not believe in this day you do not believe in creation at all, as the seventh day sabbath is as much a part of creation as we are, and everthing else He made. But as Daniel prophesied the Roman system would come along and "change" God's times and laws, which they did about 1000 years later, and we are still living under this pagan Roman system...the vast majority of the so called "christian" churches or "protestant" churches have gone for this Roman system hook, line and sinker, and figure they are so pious, but they are actually the harlot daughters of mother Rome, described in Revelation 17lforrest said:
Heretoeternity,
The Roman system and every other non Law of Moses system would change the dates and times according to that reasoning. That includes the systems in place at the time and before the time Daniel prophesied.
The Sabbaths are day and years given to the Jews as holidays. They were not given to the Gentiles.
You do not understand the Law of Moses so how can you understand the new covenant?
The Roman system and every other non Law of Moses system would change the dates and times according to that reasoning. That includes the systems in place at the time and before the time Daniel prophesied.
The Sabbaths are day and years given to the Jews as holidays. They were not given to the Gentiles.
You do not understand the Law of Moses so how can you understand the new covenant?
Wrong again....the Sabbath day was created by God at Creation....it is a Holy day whether you and your false teachers believe it or not...time to get up to speed on the New Covenant, God's commandments, and the Salvation process...we are all under the law of God, and we are saved by Grace, and after that repentance, and following God's law...if you continue to sin (transgress the law 1st John) equals no salvation....kerwin said:
Salvation comes about by God's grace, and keeping His commandments as proof of salvation...
***heretoeternity said:
So in the end a person is saved by his/her works trying to keep the law, right? Jesus just came to die on a cross so that mankind could save themselves by what they do, right? So there is not a free gift from God, right?
You have proved over and over that your faith is in what you do and not in what Jesus did on the cross. I wonder how God sees that.
Heretoeternity,
Genesis 2:1-3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
I see where he blessed it, made it holy, and even rested on it and yet not one word where he yet gave it to humanity.
What writings are you reading?
Genesis 2:1-3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
I see where he blessed it, made it holy, and even rested on it and yet not one word where he yet gave it to humanity.
What writings are you reading?
Heretoeternity,
I have was raised Seventh Day Adventist and know how they place to much emphasis on holding the Saturday as the Sabbath and eating clean meats or even being vegetarians instead of how to walk according to the Spirit. In doing so they do just what Paul is addressing in some points in his letters.
That being that they continue to walk according to the flesh and pick certain things of the Law to do by human effort and then believe they are saved. In the sum of things they are no different than unbelievers.
Note:Sincere Jews know the Law better than you even though they reject Christ.
I have was raised Seventh Day Adventist and know how they place to much emphasis on holding the Saturday as the Sabbath and eating clean meats or even being vegetarians instead of how to walk according to the Spirit. In doing so they do just what Paul is addressing in some points in his letters.
That being that they continue to walk according to the flesh and pick certain things of the Law to do by human effort and then believe they are saved. In the sum of things they are no different than unbelievers.
Note:Sincere Jews know the Law better than you even though they reject Christ.
Heretoeternity,
Hypothetically the reason the day of rest was changed from Saturday to Sunday is the same reason celebration of Jesus' death and resurrection was changed from Passover to Easter. In both cases I suspicion is was to separate Christianity from Judaism. Even then it was possibly a way for Gentiles to avoid the Roman Temple Tax, fiscus Judaicus. There may also have been some prejudice against Jews involved.
Hypothetically the reason the day of rest was changed from Saturday to Sunday is the same reason celebration of Jesus' death and resurrection was changed from Passover to Easter. In both cases I suspicion is was to separate Christianity from Judaism. Even then it was possibly a way for Gentiles to avoid the Roman Temple Tax, fiscus Judaicus. There may also have been some prejudice against Jews involved.
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