Under sin

[kerwin]

***
So in the end a person is saved by his/her works trying to keep the law, right? Jesus just came to die on a cross so that mankind could save themselves by what they do, right? So there is not a free gift from God, right?

You have proved over and over that your faith is in what you do and not in what Jesus did on the cross. I wonder how God sees that

Hereteternity is both wrong and correct. According to Paul it is those who bear the fruit of the Spirit that are saved. That fruit is God doing his works through the one walking according to the Spirit and so Christians are saved by doing the works of God. One can only walk by the Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ and thus Christians are saved by faith. In addition one receives the Spirit by the grace of God and bears its fruit by the same Grace so one is saved by the grace of God.

The three statements, saved by grace saved by faith, and saved by works; are all true but no one of them is true if used to deny the others.

 

[H. Richard]

Hereteternity is both wrong and correct. According to Paul it is those who bear the fruit of the Spirit that are saved. That fruit is God doing his works through the one walking according to the Spirit and so Christians are saved by doing the works of God. One can only walk by the Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ and thus Christians are saved by faith. In addition one receives the Spirit by the grace of God and bears its fruit by the same Grace so one is saved by the grace of God.

The three statements, saved by grace saved by faith, and saved by works; are all true but no one of them is true if used to deny the others.

***
When will you see this scripture?

Titus 3:4-6
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
NKJV

Open your eyes. It says, not by works which we have done".


The fruit that a child of God produces is more children of God. Fruit is not good works.

A child of God produces fruit when they lead someone to the gospel of grace so that that person becomes another child of God.

 

[kerwin]

...

Open your eyes. It says, not by works which we have done".


The fruit that a child of God produces is more children of God. Fruit is not good works.

A child of God produces fruit when they lead someone to the gospel of grace so that that person becomes another child of God.

Though I am sure that is included as it is an act of love Paul teaches us of more fruit..

He states:

Galatians 5:22-25Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

and again:


Ephesians 5:8-10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 10 proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

 

[kerwin]

***


Open your eyes. It says, not by works which we have done".

...

You should reread what I wrote because I did not speak of the works of any man but works of God using a human to do his works.

 

[heretoeternity]

No one is saved by grace/faith alone, and no one is saved by works alone..they work together...we are saved by grace, and after that need repentance from sin (works)...Paul, James, Peter, and Jesus all support this...Rev 22 as Jesus said "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me for every man according to his works"....

 

[heretoeternity]

Heretoeternity,

Hypothetically the reason the day of rest was changed from Saturday to Sunday is the same reason celebration of Jesus' death and resurrection was changed from Passover to Easter. In both cases I suspicion is was to separate Christianity from Judaism. Even then it was possibly a way for Gentiles to avoid the Roman Temple Tax, fiscus Judaicus. There may also have been some prejudice against Jews involved.

Why don't you actually do some research on the subject so you can make an accurate comment...the Roman religious system changed the Passover to easter in honour of their fertility goddess Ishtar, etc etc same with dec 25th and the breaking of the Holy sabbath day, to sunday in honour of their sungod.....it is well documented and well known fact, but I guess you missed out on it..learn the truth and it will make you free as Jesus said.

 

[heretoeternity]

Heretoeternity,

I have was raised Seventh Day Adventist and know how they place to much emphasis on holding the Saturday as the Sabbath and eating clean meats or even being vegetarians instead of how to walk according to the Spirit. In doing so they do just what Paul is addressing in some points in his letters.

That being that they continue to walk according to the flesh and pick certain things of the Law to do by human effort and then believe they are saved. In the sum of things they are no different than unbelievers.

Note:Sincere Jews know the Law better than you even though they reject Christ.

Unlike you, they know what law they are talking about, clearly you don't...why don't you learn to separate the law of Moses from the law of God? God's law the ten commandments are not difficult to understand, and need to be kept if one is to be considered one of God's people...if you belong to satan then fine, thumb you nose at them and keep on sinning....
As far as SDA are concerned, I care not if you were one of them or not..they are good people and at least they keep the Holy seventh day Sabbath...which unlike the other 98 percent of "christians" ignore and chose to follow the sungod worshipping Roman system unto their destruction (wide is the way as Jesus said)

 

[kerwin]

Why don't you actually do some research on the subject so you can make an accurate comment...the Roman religious system changed the Passover to easter in honour of their fertility goddess Ishtar, etc etc same with dec 25th and the breaking of the Holy sabbath day, to sunday in honour of their sungod.....it is well documented and well known fact, but I guess you missed out on it..learn the truth and it will make you free as Jesus said.

I actually have done some research such that I know that anyone who claims Ishtar is the Roman is wrong. The Roman fertility goddess is Venus. Ishtar is the Mesopotamian goddess of fertility; a land the Roman Empire would conquer.

The word Easter is not even Latin in origins. It has evolved from Germanic roots. The Romans actually called it Passover; though in Latin.

There is a spring goddess associated with its English origins but you can't blame the Romans for that.

The official Roman holiday was Dec 25 and it was originally used as a holy day for the Unconquered Sun. Symbolically it certainly can be linked to Jesus as it was to a number of other Emperors.

 

[kerwin]

Unlike you, they know what law they are talking about, clearly you don't...why don't you learn to separate the law of Moses from the law of God? God's law the ten commandments are not difficult to understand, and need to be kept if one is to be considered one of God's people...if you belong to satan then fine, thumb you nose at them and keep on sinning....
As far as SDA are concerned, I care not if you were one of them or not..they are good people and at least they keep the Holy seventh day Sabbath...which unlike the other 98 percent of "christians" ignore and chose to follow the sungod worshipping Roman system unto their destruction (wide is the way as Jesus said)

It is written:

James 1:27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

There is not one word of visiting the fatherless and widows in their affliction in the ten so clearly your religion is not underfunded before God.

 

[heretoeternity]

It is written:

James 1:27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

There is not one word of visiting the fatherless and widows in their affliction in the ten so clearly your religion is not underfunded before God.







You are having a tough time with this aren't you? If you honour God by keeping His commandments, you will obviously do what He says, and teaches...it is a discipline, which ties in with Jesus teachings...Love God, and love your neighbour....
Unfortunately the world is blinded to this by satan....keep trying you will learn, if you pray about it1

 

[kerwin]

It is written:

James 1:27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

There is not one word of visiting the fatherless and widows in their affliction in the ten so clearly your religion is not underfunded before God.







You are having a tough time with this aren't you? If you honour God by keeping His commandments, you will obviously do what He says, and teaches...it is a discipline, which ties in with Jesus teachings...Love God, and love your neighbour....
Unfortunately the world is blinded to this by satan....keep trying you will learn, if you pray about it1

Then the ten commandments are not all the commandments?

 

[heretoeternity]

Love of God is a summary of the first four, Love of neighbour is a summary of last six...

 

[kerwin]

Heretoeternity,

You are incorrect.

There is two commandments and they are but one.

1. Love is obedience to God and therefore all you have to is obey his command. (1 John 5:3)
2. Any commandment that exists is summed up in the command to Love your neighbor as yourself.

Romans 13:9Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[heretoeternity]

Why not quote what Jesus has to say on this issue....Paul cannot save you only Jesus can!

 

[H. Richard]

Why not quote what Jesus has to say on this issue....Paul cannot save you only Jesus can!

***
No one is saying that but you. Jesus gave Paul a hidden gospel of grace. Paul does not save us but the gospel he got from Jesus does.

Eph 3:8-9 -- Purpose of the Mystery
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
NKJV


Note: The theology of the churches today simplify the Mystery to only be that God now includes the Gentiles. However, that is not the case. The true mystery is that God paid for, not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world by shedding His blood on a cross. I repeat, every sin that mankind has, is, or will commit has been paid for. No one, today, is condemned because of their sins of the flesh. -- The only sin that condemns is the sin of unbelief. If a person does not know in their heart that their sins are paid for by God then they are not saved because of their unbelief in the work of God on the cross.

 

[heretoeternity]

***
No one is saying that but you. Jesus gave Paul a hidden gospel of grace. Paul does not save us but the gospel he got from Jesus does.

Eph 3:8-9 -- Purpose of the Mystery
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
NKJV


Note: The theology of the churches today simplify the Mystery to only be that God now includes the Gentiles. However, that is not the case. The true mystery is that God paid for, not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world by shedding His blood on a cross. I repeat, every sin that mankind has, is, or will commit has been paid for. No one, today, is condemned because of their sins of the flesh. -- The only sin that condemns is the sin of unbelief. If a person does not know in their heart that their sins are paid for by God then they are not saved because of their unbelief in the work of God on the cross.

You are making up your own doctrine as you go along...don't you know you are not supposed to add or subtract from the words of the Bible? It is forbidden in Deut and Revelation...why you do it? False doctrine, is in fact, adding or subtracting...can't you just read the words of Jesus and follow them? Obviously not!...better check what spirit you are actually following?

 

[kerwin]

Why not quote what Jesus has to say on this issue....Paul cannot save you only Jesus can!

Who taught you that God does not speak through Paul?

 

[kerwin]

Heretoeternity,

Like you H.Richard has been taught a false doctrine by mere humans and has chosen to adhere to it. It is just different than your. I had to realize that each human being is at heart a liar, including me, before I could even start to understand the word of God.

Always verify what you hear and believe.

 

[heretoeternity]

Who taught you that God does not speak through Paul?

Are you ashamed of our Lord and Saviour?? Seems so, you would sooner quote Paul than Jesus...Paul cannot save you only Jesus can offer salvation. How long does it take you to learn that? You should also realize there are other Apostles besides Paul, but you seem fixated with Paul...maybe as Peter said in 2nd Peter 3...you fixated with Paul because you can use his writings to justify your misinterpretation of scripture to avoid keeping God's laws and commands? But if you do remember, as Peter says, it is to your own destruction.

 

[kerwin]

Are you ashamed of our Lord and Saviour?? Seems so, you would sooner quote Paul than Jesus...Paul cannot save you only Jesus can offer salvation. How long does it take you to learn that? You should also realize there are other Apostles besides Paul, but you seem fixated with Paul...maybe as Peter said in 2nd Peter 3...you fixated with Paul because you can use his writings to justify your misinterpretation of scripture to avoid keeping God's laws and commands? But if you do remember, as Peter says, it is to your own destruction.

I just do not cherry pick Scripture because I know it is all the word of God.

H.Richard does misinterpret the word of God and I believe he in his heart he knows that as he is careful to select what writings he uses of Paul. It does not help him for me to know that.