There is a lot more to God's grace than that. It is probably not good to try to reduce it to two or three short lines.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No actually it is not. Because peter did not tell EVERYONE to repent and be baptized.
He told everyone to repent. and individuals to be baptized.
This is your first error. On Account of is used often. not only with the english word (for) "I called the doctor for (on account of) my sickness" now I hope you do not think that the person called the doctor in order to get sick.
But also in the greek, and in scripture
Matt 12: 41 - along with Luke 11: 32 - "The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at (eis) the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Now using your interpretation. they repented in order that Jonah would =preach to them, not "on account of" or "because" of the teaching of Jonah
Another example, takes the other argument away, that eis always looks forward.
or how about Luke 11: 7 - and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in (eis) bed; I cannot rise and give to you’?
They were already in bed with him, it already occurred. there is absolutely no mention or indication of a forward occurance.
As Jeff Paton says in his article "Baptism, Its Mode, its Meaning, Its madness":
Two bits of misinformation are used in an attempt to salvage baptism as a requirement for salvation. First, the misnomer that some have propagated, " eis never means "because of." This is emphatically proven wrong by the use of eis in Matt. 12:41. The other false claim is, "the word "eis" never looks backwards." Once again, this is proven to be patently false according to Matt. 12:41. Look at the example of Scripture they say never "looks backwards." " My children are with me in (eis) bed." Luke 11:7. They were already with him in bed, there is not any reference to the future. The argument which claims that eis in Acts 2:38 can only mean that baptism is required for salvation, is clearly a false, and is either propagated out of ignorance, or by deliberate deception. It only takes one example to prove their assertion is false!
This is not true. Again, he only told a select group to be baptized. and I have already proven eis does not always men in order to recieve. It also does not agree with the many many passages that speak of how to be saved that never mention baptism (John 3, John 6, Romans 10, Eph 2 etc etc etc..)
Um no, You can not use John 3, Because when Jesus tells Nicodemus HOW to be born again (born of water and spirit) not once did he mention the word baptize.
John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
No mention of water baptism anywhere,. Because no application to any type of baptism is in context.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Another false misrepresentation of pauls words.
1. In eph 1. Works of the law are not even in context. Paul was speaking to gentile believers, who were never under the law. He also said that no one may boast. A person can boast if they did a work in order to gain or earn something.
2. In Romans 4 paul makes it quite clear abraham was not found by works, but by his faith in Christ. and we today are saved by that same faith, apart from works.. lest we should boast
3. In Titus 3, Paul makes it the most clear. for it is not by works of righteousness (good deeds, obedience to Gods commands etc etc) but by Gods mercy he saved us by the washing and renewal of the HS.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Grace is unmerited favor.
If your trying to earn something by working for it (ie, water baptism, communion, tithing etc etc) it is no longer grace.
Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
But those things are good things to do even if not an attempt to "earn" anything. Indeed, we are commanded to do a number of things that "earn" no salvation in the doing. The ritual of water baptism, like circumcision before it, signifies the ritual participant's membership in the people of God. Nothing wrong with that.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
We in fact should be water baptized. Jesus commanded it like he did many things.
But if we are doing it with the wrong motivation. it is sin. as is anything we do with the wrong motivation.
What can you possibly do, of yourself that can equal Jesus's blood and death?
You can't work your way into heaven, and The CROSS proves it.
This is why Jesus told YOU....>"no person comes to the FATHER.. .except by ME"> JOHN 14:6
"by ME"= THE CROSS, and Faith in JESUS.
There is your "narrow way".. there is your "Gift of Salvation"
That is a distinction without any real difference. Only individuals can repent. Only individuals can believe. Only individuals can be baptized. Only individuals can be saved. The New Covenant is about individuals.
That is the English usage of the word "for" not the Greek usage of the word "eis". And besides you actually called the doctor for instructions unto a cure, that is, in order to be cured of your sickness.
In Matthew 12:41 the "because they repented" comes from the Greek word ὅτι [hoti], clearly meaning "because" or "on account of". The "at the preaching" is well understood as responding "unto" the preaching of Jonas.
And in Luke 11:7, the meaning there cannot be taken as "because of" or "account of" the bed, but rather as "in" or "among", or "at".
Thus your analysis of both are terribly weak if not absolutely incorrect.
Nor did he mention the word "believe" in His discussion of being born again. But he did mention water. I do hope you are not trying to suggest that water in John 3 is amniotic fluid. That is not now nor has it ever been a euphemism of physical birth. To be born again has reference only to the spirit being made alive again.
That, dear one, is a really stupid comment. If you do not understand the difference between taking a shower and being baptized, then you are not really intelligent enough to be commenting on anything in the Bible.
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Nothing, but if it is only Jesus' blood and death, then it must be universal and all are saved.
It turns out that you could have if you had never sinned; in which case you would have earned it. But as Paul said, all have sinned, so you lose and you need another way to receive eternal life.
Jesus also told you, "Whosoever believes and is baptized shall be saved".
And He also said, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
It is of interest to note that baptizing and teaching here is not a direction of what to do to disciples; but rather both are participles modifying the word make. In other words, baptizing and teaching is the process whereby the disciples are to be made. It is much like you telling the service manager to "service your car, changing the oil and checking the fluids". Changing and checking is the process for how it is to be serviced; it is not what you do to your car after it is serviced.
What is "stupid" and "Deception"... is to believe that Water has any part in God's redemption.
If Water Baptism died on the Cross, then continue to give it the Credit you BELIEVE it deserves.
Try not to be "stupid" about that @JBO
See, its an insult against the Cross of Christ to try to ADD water to The Cross, as if the Sacrifice of Jesus, needs it.
Its universally offered...but only Faith in Christ, receives it. (That BELIEVER).
You left out the important part of the verse as all water cults do that...
"and whosoever does not BELIEVE....shall be DAMNED"..
Notice that Damnation, is related to NOT BELIEVING, and that is because its the BELIEVING that prevents the DAMNATION< and that is why the "water" is missing .
You can be a disciple and not be born again.
You can be a disciple of Christ and die and go to hell, this very day.
See, a CHRISTIAN is more then a "disciple".
Let me show you some "disciples of Christ"..
Jesus said this about them..>"Depart from me , as i never KNEW YOU".
And these " were casting out demons, using the name of Jesus".
So, a CHRISTIAN is a "SON/Daughter of God, and that is so much more then a disciple.
What does it mean that Water Baptism died on the Cross. Where in the Bible does it say anything about that?
What are you TRUSTING...,. to get you into HEAVEN.
If you say "WATER Baptism" , .....then you just failed God's Faith Test., because you just rejected the ONLY WAY to Heaven, because you falsely added WATER when its only this that God has provided to get you into Heaven...."= JESUS Saves".
No water required.
Understand?
Try reading and understanding John 6.
In Greek is is called πίστις [pistis], same for belief. It happens both in the mind and in the heart. Faith is mental assent plus trust.
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