Understanding and Believing the Gospel

[Ritajanice]

​

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?​

ANSWER

When seeking what we can learn from the thief on the cross, it should be remembered that at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion, two thieves were crucified beside Him (Luke 23:33–43), and both began their time on the cross by mocking and blaspheming Him (Matthew 27:44; Mark 15:32), as did many of the spectators. One of the thieves responded in faith to the message of salvation and was taken to paradise that very day. He is the one usually referred to as the thief on the cross. The man on the cross on the other side of Jesus never repented, as far as we know. So, at Calvary we have a picture of the two possible responses people can have to the Savior.

It is remarkable that, while in the excruciating and mind-numbing torment of the cross, the Son of Man had the heart, mind, and will to pray for others. Yet it is a miracle that one thief, while in agony himself, heard the Spirit of God call him to repentance and acceptance of the forgiveness God was just about to provide through the death of Christ. While the disciples were abandoning the Lord, this man answered the call, and his sins were forgiven, including his blasphemy against the Son of God (Luke 5:31-32, 12:8–10).


Jesus continued this message and made it clear that unless we all repent, we will all be lost—eternally

Jesus Speaking: “I tell you, no; but unless you all repent you will all likewise perish.” —Luke 13:3

 

[Robert Pate]

​

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?​

ANSWER

When seeking what we can learn from the thief on the cross, it should be remembered that at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion, two thieves were crucified beside Him (Luke 23:33–43), and both began their time on the cross by mocking and blaspheming Him (Matthew 27:44; Mark 15:32), as did many of the spectators. One of the thieves responded in faith to the message of salvation and was taken to paradise that very day. He is the one usually referred to as the thief on the cross. The man on the cross on the other side of Jesus never repented, as far as we know. So, at Calvary we have a picture of the two possible responses people can have to the Savior.

It is remarkable that, while in the excruciating and mind-numbing torment of the cross, the Son of Man had the heart, mind, and will to pray for others. Yet it is a miracle that one thief, while in agony himself, heard the Spirit of God call him to repentance and acceptance of the forgiveness God was just about to provide through the death of Christ. While the disciples were abandoning the Lord, this man answered the call, and his sins were forgiven, including his blasphemy against the Son of God (Luke 5:31-32, 12:8–10).


Jesus continued this message and made it clear that unless we all repent, we will all be lost—eternally

Jesus Speaking: “I tell you, no; but unless you all repent you will all likewise perish.” —Luke 13:3

The thief on the cross was saved by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8. No one was saved through repentance. Repentance is a work, something that we do.

 

[brightfame52]

The thief on the cross was saved by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8. No one was saved through repentance. Repentance is a work, something that we do.

So is believing, its something man does just as repentance.

 

[Robert Pate]

So is believing, its something man does just as repentance.

Calvinism brings no glory to God. What it brings is injustice and hopelessness to the lost.

 

[brightfame52]

Calvinism brings no glory to God. What it brings is injustice and hopelessness to the lost.

You condition salvation on something man does, thats works

 

[FaithWillDo]

Calvinism brings no glory to God. What it brings is injustice and hopelessness to the lost.

Dear Robert Pate,

I agree with much of what you said below but I also see a serious contradiction within your statement.

You said this in your original post:
No one can understand and believe the Gospel without the Holy Spirit. This can cause a problem on Christian Forums. The reason is that not everyone on the Forum is a born-again believer. If you have never called on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13, then chances are that you are a lost unbeliever. A Christian is one that is totally and completely dependent upon the saving work of Jesus Christ for their salvation. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that meet this criteria. Paul said, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (what you do) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

I agree with your first three sentences completely and it is supported by scripture. But then you made this contradictory statement: "A Christian is one that is totally and completely dependent upon the saving work of Jesus Christ for their salvation. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that meet this criteria".

How can anyone ever be dependent on the saving work of Christ for their salvation WITHOUT already having the Holy Spirit?

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

If you say their faith comes from their own free will ability to believe in Christ, then scripture contradicts this statement:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If Christ does not give a person their faith, they would not have any. If you believe that their faith comes from a person's free will ability to choose, that would make their faith a "work" and they would have something to boast about concerning why they are saved and why others are not. The person would have to believe that they are smarter, wiser or just less evil than those who reject Christ - and that is the definition of a self-righteous Christian.

Joe

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Can you quote me anything from the gospels on this? You mention Jesus Christ often yet not one gospel scripture in all your text. Do you believe Jesus Christ is Our Father Almighty God that came in the flesh? Just curious.

Aren't you... that woman but nobody can tell from your forum identity?

Paul used a scribe because he had eye problems.

It cannot be proven that Paul was not skillful in the Word of righteousness and did not know how to receive healing from the Lord which left him physically disabled in anyway... it's nothing but speculation by the cessationists who fail to follow the whole counsel of God.

Paul was stoned more than once and left for dead and received healing to be physically strong again to continue in ministry... he healed other people and raised the dead... so we know he knew how to receive and administer the healing power of the Lord.

Is hearing and believing something that we do?

Yes.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Calvinism brings no glory to God. What it brings is injustice and hopelessness to the lost.

Dear Robert Pate,
Here is the point I was leading to in my first post: Faith is a gift from God and because it is, Christ is not dependent upon mankind doing anything for their salvation. Christ alone does all the work for our salvation.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—.

Rom 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

2Cor 4:13 It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” Since we have that same spirit of faith, we also believe and therefore speak...

When it is time for Christ to save a person, God will give the person a measure of faith. It is by this gift of faith that the pathway will be made straight for Christ to come to that person and give them the Holy Spirit and salvation.

Because faith in Christ is a gift from God, no man has anything with which they can boast about concerning their salvation.

In the final age, when the "lost" are being judged by the Law in the Lake of Fire, these verses will apply:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride (the Elect) say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The penalty of sin is death. However, before the "lost" perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the gift of faith just as He had earlier given to the Elect. It is from this gift of faith that the pathway will be made straight for Christ to give the "lost" the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and salvation. After the "lost" person is "born again", the new child of God will be gathered up to heaven. Justice will then be satisfied by the destruction of the child of the devil (who they used to be) in the Lake of Fire. Joel chapter 2 teaches this truth in detail.

After the last person is saved, this scripture will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[JunChosen]

God's people are those that have accepted his Son Jesus Christ as their savior.

Jesus said, "You have not chosen me but I have chosen you." John 15:16.

Man is spiritually dead and therefore has no power to accept or choose for Jesús.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

​

What can we learn from the thief on the cross?​

ANSWER

When seeking what we can learn from the thief on the cross, it should be remembered that at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion, two thieves were crucified beside Him (Luke 23:33–43), and both began their time on the cross by mocking and blaspheming Him (Matthew 27:44; Mark 15:32), as did many of the spectators. One of the thieves responded in faith to the message of salvation and was taken to paradise that very day. He is the one usually referred to as the thief on the cross. The man on the cross on the other side of Jesus never repented, as far as we know. So, at Calvary we have a picture of the two possible responses people can have to the Savior.

It is remarkable that, while in the excruciating and mind-numbing torment of the cross, the Son of Man had the heart, mind, and will to pray for others. Yet it is a miracle that one thief, while in agony himself, heard the Spirit of God call him to repentance and acceptance of the forgiveness God was just about to provide through the death of Christ. While the disciples were abandoning the Lord, this man answered the call, and his sins were forgiven, including his blasphemy against the Son of God (Luke 5:31-32, 12:8–10).


Jesus continued this message and made it clear that unless we all repent, we will all be lost—eternally

Jesus Speaking: “I tell you, no; but unless you all repent you will all likewise perish.” —Luke 13:3

That Jesus knew all of those which the Father has elected to salvation, and so, right before our eyes we read that Jesus saves one of the elect and says, "today shalt thou be with me in Paradise."

To God Be The Glory

 

[JBO]

Dear Robert Pate,
Here is the point I was leading to in my first post: Faith is a gift from God and because it is, Christ is not dependent upon mankind doing anything for their salvation. Christ alone does all the work for our salvation.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—.

Rom 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

No, faith is not a gift from God. The statement, "it is a gift from god" in Ephesians 2:5 is not a reference to either faith or grace, but rather to the entire phrase, "by grace you have been saved through faith". That is, it is salvation that is the gift. We know that because of the Greek grammar.

As for Romans 12:3, the passage of verses 3 through 8 is concerned with gifts. Most authorities agree that the faith in verse 3 is a designation of the system of the Christian religion which is characterized lby faith and its confidence. Verses 6-8 speak of the various gifts that "differ according to the grace given in proportion to our faith". The point of the passage is that no matter what gifts each of us have, none of them should be any reason for us to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.

Moreover, we know that faith is not a gift, for if faith were a gift by which one is saved, then all who are lost are not lost because of what they have done, i.e., sinned, but rather because of what God has not done, namely given them the faith needed for salvation.

 

[JBO]

You condition salvation on something man does, thats works

But not works of law. Obviously, believing is a work. Jesus says so in John 6:26-29. And Jesus says by that work, i.e. by believing, we are saved (Mark 16:16; Rom 3:24; Rom 4:22-25, and so many others),

 

[JBO]

Jesus said, "You have not chosen me but I have chosen you." John 15:16.

Man is spiritually dead and therefore has no power to accept or choose for Jesús.

To God Be The Glory

John 15:16 was Jesus speaking to His disciples, the twelve. There is no indication that it was spoken of any others.

 

[Episkopos]

No one can understand and believe the Gospel without the Holy Spirit. This can cause a problem on Christian Forums. The reason is that not everyone on the Forum is a born-again believer. If you have never called on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13, then chances are that you are a lost unbeliever. A Christian is one that is totally and completely dependent upon the saving work of Jesus Christ for their salvation. The Holy Spirit is only given to those that meet this criteria. Paul said, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (what you do) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

In the Gospel Jesus justifies lost sinners, Romans 3:26 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. We did not participate in this. The Gospel is a past historical event. It took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born. Because Jesus did it all and he did it perfectly, we are saved and justified by faith alone, it is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone. The reason that it is by faith alone is because God does not accept the works and the obedience of sinners, which we are all one of. If God accepted us that would make him a sinner also. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him.

Most religious people are offended by the Gospel because it is not about them, it is about Jesus Christ and what he has done to provide salvation for fallen man, Hebrews 2:9. Jesus is the savior, we are the lost sinners. Jesus saves us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Jesus in our name and on our behalf fulfills the law, Romans 10:4. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. The question is can you believe and trust in what Jesus has done for you? If you can, then you are saved. If you can't believe, then you are lost.

Those that cannot believe the Gospel usually turn to religion. Religion is man's effort to save himself by what he is or by what he has become. Those that are trying to be saved by their works and their obedience will be disappointed in the judgment. God only accepts the righteousness of Christ, if we are not in him, we will perish. This is why it is important to believe the Gospel and receive the Holy Spirit. In the judgment God will recognize his Spirit and will allow you into heaven. No one will enter into heaven on their own works or their own righteousness.

Many will CLAIM to be born again the same way they claim everything in the bible that sounds positive to them. It's "name it and claim it" for these.

I can tell if a person is truly born again by whether they also accept the warnings that come with bible reading. If they justify themselves because they have opted for all the good sounding verses, as so many do, WITHOUT giving heed to all the warnings ....then they are pretenders. These have NO fear of God before their eyes. So then they have had NO encounter with God who is holy.

 

[Ziggy]

Jhn 1:6
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Jhn 1:7
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Jhn 1:8
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Jhn 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Jhn 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Zec 14:6
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
Zec 14:7
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

Jhn 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Jhn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Jhn 9:5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Jhn 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Gen 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

2Co 4:6

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Eph 5:8
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
1Th 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Gen 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Rom 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Jhn 9:6
When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Jhn 9:7
And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

Isa 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Jer 18:4
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

hugs

 

[brightfame52]

But not works of law. Obviously, believing is a work. Jesus says so in John 6:26-29. And Jesus says by that work, i.e. by believing, we are saved (Mark 16:16; Rom 3:24; Rom 4:22-25, and so many others),

You condition salvation on something man does, thats works, dont have to be the Law for it to be works

 

[JBO]

You condition salvation on something man does, thats works, dont have to be the Law for it to be works

It does according to Paul.

 

[FaithWillDo]

No, faith is not a gift from God. The statement, "it is a gift from god" in Ephesians 2:5 is not a reference to either faith or grace, but rather to the entire phrase, "by grace you have been saved through faith". That is, it is salvation that is the gift. We know that because of the Greek grammar.

As for Romans 12:3, the passage of verses 3 through 8 is concerned with gifts. Most authorities agree that the faith in verse 3 is a designation of the system of the Christian religion which is characterized lby faith and its confidence. Verses 6-8 speak of the various gifts that "differ according to the grace given in proportion to our faith". The point of the passage is that no matter what gifts each of us have, none of them should be any reason for us to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.

Moreover, we know that faith is not a gift, for if faith were a gift by which one is saved, then all who are lost are not lost because of what they have done, i.e., sinned, but rather because of what God has not done, namely given them the faith needed for salvation.

Dear JBO,
Your comments above are contradicted by God's Word. Faith is a gift from God. Faith is given to a person when they are freely given the gift of the Early Rain of the Spirit. Without that gift, mankind would never accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior as these verses below describe:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only way a person can have any faith in Christ is for Christ to change their heart by freely giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Spirit, every person will call Jesus "Lord".

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road and the Apostles received it during Christ's earthly ministry. Paul later received the Latter Rain in Damascus and the Apostles received the Latter Rain on the Day of Pentecost. It is only with both the Early and Latter Rains that a person is saved and converted.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The apostate church denies the Early Rain of the Spirit and that is why it is not taught.

You said:
Moreover, we know that faith is not a gift, for if faith were a gift by which one is saved, then all who are lost are not lost because of what they have done, i.e., sinned, but rather because of what God has not done, namely given them the faith needed for salvation.

Those who remain "lost" in this age were not chosen to be a part of the early harvest of mankind (the First Fruits). They are not blessed, but they will still be saved in the final age.

After the last person who has ever lived is saved, these scriptures below will be testified to be true:

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Salvation is a gift from God because of His Grace. Faith is a part of that gift.

It sounds like you are teaching a gospel which mixes "works" with faith. When a believer does this mixing, it will cause them to fall from grace. I will make a second post to you that gives more detail on this subject.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

No, faith is not a gift from God. The statement, "it is a gift from god" in Ephesians 2:5 is not a reference to either faith or grace, but rather to the entire phrase, "by grace you have been saved through faith". That is, it is salvation that is the gift. We know that because of the Greek grammar.

As for Romans 12:3, the passage of verses 3 through 8 is concerned with gifts. Most authorities agree that the faith in verse 3 is a designation of the system of the Christian religion which is characterized lby faith and its confidence. Verses 6-8 speak of the various gifts that "differ according to the grace given in proportion to our faith". The point of the passage is that no matter what gifts each of us have, none of them should be any reason for us to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.

Moreover, we know that faith is not a gift, for if faith were a gift by which one is saved, then all who are lost are not lost because of what they have done, i.e., sinned, but rather because of what God has not done, namely given them the faith needed for salvation.

Dear JBO,

By the start of the 1st century, 100% of the churches the apostles started had become apostate. The apostasy is what produced the religion of orthodox Christianity which mixes MAN'S WORKS WITH FAITH. That is why when an apostate believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and has their spiritual blindness healed, they will always "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves (God's temple).

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand. 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

If a believer has not seen this sign of the times, it means that they are still under the deceptions of the spirit of anti-Christ. Satan's deceptions are so powerful that no one is spared from them:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

So when is a believer given "eyes that can see"?

Christ answers this question in the scripture below:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language. At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received only the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). Because of such, the apostles were still spiritually blind and could not understand what Christ was teaching them.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the apostles this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response from the Apostles is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ himself is the Word of God, He teaches His converted Elect not only by parables and analogies but also by the things that He did. These teachings are called "types". In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) Christ places on the man's eyes symbolizes the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church. With this type of vision, the new believer will understand the teachings of Christ in a carnal way. With this carnal understanding of God's Word, Satan can easily deceive the new believer because his false teachings are very pleasing to the believer's carnal nature.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Scripture says that Satan is the crooked serpent (Job 26:13). Satan is called the crooked serpent because he teaches the crooked way of salvation by man's works. As a result, Satan's "another gospel" mixes man's works (religion, Old Covenant) with the works of Christ (faith alone, New Covenant). Satan's false gospel is very deceptive to carnally minded believers.

When a believer mixes the Old Wine with the New Wine, they will become "lukewarm" (Rev 3:16) and will fall from grace (Gal 5:4).

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

Prv 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Next in the story, Christ asks the blind man what he can see. The man looks up and says that he can see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight rather than by faith. At this point, the blind man is a type for a called out believer. The man’s blindness was not total any longer (has a measure of faith) but he was still very near-sighted (can only see Christ in the flesh).

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to the believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth. From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains. It is at this time that the man has been given "eyes that can see". From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will come out from Satan's deceptions (he will see the A of D) and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the harvest of First Fruits and will receive his reward of "life during the ages" (Mat 25:46).

Joe

 

[brightfame52]

It does according to Paul.

You condition salvation on something man does, thats works, dont have to be the Law for it to be works