Understanding "THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED" passage.

[Truth7t7]

Nope, I agree with the Protestant Reformers that the "man of sin" is the line of papal leaders who claim to be "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh" and claim "the sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it".

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

 

[CanaanCornelius]

In verse 9, there is continued revelation of the man of sin. He is described as one “whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power.

 

[stormymonday]

Go ahead--heap it on...you who take away the key of knowledge and grieve the Holy Spirit.

Is there anybody on this forum who doesn't badmouth others?

 

[stormymonday]

Nope, I agree with the Protestant Reformers that the "man of sin" is the line of papal leaders who claim to be "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh" and claim "the sentence of the priest precedes, and God subscribes to it".

The popes represent Jesus Christ. They don't claim to be Jesus Christ himself.

For over 20 years I've been asking CHRISTIANS to quote ONE verse of end-time prophecy that specifically identifies Rome as the man of sin - any of the beast - the little horn - or the whore of Babylon. For some reason NOT ONE person has ever been able to quote ONE verse in 20 years! NOT ONE!

 

[Truth7t7]

The popes represent Jesus Christ. They don't claim to be Jesus Christ himself.

For over 20 years I've been asking CHRISTIANS to quote ONE verse of end-time prophecy that specifically identifies Rome as the man of sin - any of the beast - the little horn - or the whore of Babylon. For some reason NOT ONE person has ever been able to quote ONE verse in 20 years! NOT ONE!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

The popes represent Jesus Christ. They don't claim to be Jesus Christ himself.

For over 20 years I've been asking CHRISTIANS to quote ONE verse of end-time prophecy that specifically identifies Rome as the man of sin - any of the beast - the little horn - or the whore of Babylon. For some reason NOT ONE person has ever been able to quote ONE verse in 20 years! NOT ONE!

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

Revelation 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

Revelation 18:19AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[rwb]

In verse 9, there is continued revelation of the man of sin. He is described as one “whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power.

Exactly. And verse 10 follows "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

 

[Adam]

The Man of Sin is you. You're the one who struggles against God. Prove me wrong, ascend to heaven right now. Protip: you can't.

 

[Mr E]

The Man of Sin is you. You're the one who struggles against God. Prove me wrong, ascend to heaven right now. Protip: you can't.

Wonderful.

The abomination of desolation stands in the holy place of the temple that is us. And no one can serve two masters.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm not making an assumption. Yes, a living soul is what the physical body, and spirit in man is called. Our body cannot continue to have life without our spirit. But our spirit, IF we have been born again of the Spirit, shall never die even though our body will. Eternal life is only necessary for spiritual life, to enter spiritually into the Kingdom of God in heaven when our body dies. That's what Christ means when He says we must be born of the Spirit to know and enter the Kingdom of God. "Ye must be born again"!

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5-8 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Our physical body will never have eternal life to enter the Kingdom of God in heaven after death, for flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Because it is mortal, and corrupt. Mortal beings cannot be eternal because mortal means to be under the curse of death.
When our physical body dies, we are not unclothed because through our living (soul) spirit we have an eternal place in heaven, and shall be clothed a spiritual body with our house which is from heaven. As long as we are clothed in physical bodies we feel burdened and long to have our mortal flesh swallowed up of life. God has given us assurance of this by giving us His Spirit. When we are absent from our mortal bodies of death, we shall be present with the Lord in heaven clothed in eternal living spiritual bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (KJV) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.



Yes, we speak as having eternal life once we have gone from natural man to spiritual man. But we still have our bodies destined to die, because though we say we have eternal life, we are still mortal man of flesh and blood, and our body will eventually die. The eternal life we possess is through Christ's Spirit in our spirit, who will be with us until our bodies too are resurrected and changed.

Ephesians 1:12-14 (KJV) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

You said, "The soul itself seems to be a combination between the body and the spirit, forming an ego, or identity." You understand the body with the spirit is called a living soul. Calling our resurrected immortal body a spirit-body seems to imply something other than the human beings God created mankind to be on the earth. The spirit is one, and the body is one, and together they are a living soul. After our bodily resurrection we shall all be the living souls God created us to be when He breathed life (spirit) into the lump of clay, and man became a living soul, created with no more sin and with no more death. Our spirit eternal, and our body immortal without corruption for the new heaven and new earth, just as we were in the beginning.



If our body is immortal, meaning it can never die, and incorruptible, meaning no longer will we grow weak, or sick, why would life in our new physical body need to be eternal, since our spirit which animates our body is eternal? Eternal together with immortal and incorruptible = a whole or complete living soul as we were before sin and death through sin spoiled God's creation.

I wonder if you are struggling against the fact that because when the spirit in man is indwelt with the life giving Spirit of Christ, in death we go a spiritual body to heaven? Do you deny eternal life through the Spirit truly means our spirit shall never die? Is that why you seem so determined to cling to our resurrected physical body as spirit-bodies? Even though the spirit and the body are not the same thing.

I'm having a difficult time with the distinctions you're trying to make. It seems to me that you have a few things wrong, but have a pretty sound theology none the less. In other words, your soteriology is fine, but your explanation and word definitions seem to be a little off kilter.

So I don't know how I can answer you, since you're not very clear on where we differ? You seem to constantly associate having Eternal Life with the eternal existence of the spirit. This makes little sense to me, since I believe that the spirits of all men are eternally existing! So the Holy Spirit, or the gift of Christ, doesn't make something "eternal" when it is already eternal!

Eternal Life, for me, is the gift of eternal fellowship with God, an eternal sharing with Him His virtues and blessings. It is not about eternal existence, which exists for believers and unbelievers alike. Where are we messing up here? Where are we differing?

Again, "spirit bodies" have to do, for the Christian, with the reception of immortal physical bodies. The "flesh and blood" we currently have cannot obtain eternal life because it has been condemned to die--it has been since the Fall.

"Flesh and Blood" is just a synonym for the fallen nature, the Natural Man. He has become locked into doing things his own way, and the outworking of the Natural Man is rejection of the ways of the Spirit, and cannot receive Eternal Life.

But the Natural Man can abandon being the "Natural Man," and choose to become a Spiritual Man by accepting Christ as Lord. So then, we don't have to worry about our mortal bodies dying, which is a given regardless. We will receive new immortal bodies when Christ raises us from the dead.

You make this all about the "spirit of man," as opposed to the body. But God has defined Man as a spirit encased in a body. So we may exist, temporarily, without a body, but that's not who we are.

Therefore, to say only the spirit of man receives Eternal Life misses the point. Of course, we have to lose our old bodies in order to receive new perfect bodies. It has nothing to do with just our spirits receiving Eternal Life. The Eternal Life we receive when we accept Christ is not just for our spirits, which already exist forever, but more, for both our spirits and our bodies in combination, which is always how God has defined Man.

We receive Eternal Life now as both a legal pledge from God and as an experiential reality. We presently receive a New Nature, spiritually, within that is able to dominate our Sin Nature, even though Sin continues to be irrepressible in its corruption of our tendencies.

We cannot eradicate sinful tendencies, but we can dominate them by overcoming them with the virtues of Christ we choose to put on. So yes, our spirits are renewed in the Spirit of God. But Eternal Life is the promise not just of this "down payment" on our new life, but also the guarantee of coming into a form that is both sinless and immortal.

Eternal Life, therefore, consists of the promise of a combination of spirit and body, eradicating the Old Man, and certifying the New Man as complete. To just have Eternal Life in our spirit misses the point, which is all about the guarantee of a resurrection to eternal fellowship with God. This is not just eternal existence, but a qualify of life in which Man lives forever because he lives with God forever.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

The King of the North refers to the king of Babylon, which is symbolic in prophecy. Babylon fell long ago in antiquity and the prophet Isaiah says in absolutely no uncertain terms that the empire of Babylon "shall never be rebuilt" -- which means this Babylonian "North" is symbolic, WHICH MEANS THIS "KING" IS ALSO SYMBOLIC. It's not referring to a single man, nor is "man of sin" referring to a single man any more than "that the man of God may be perfect" refers to a singular man.

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.

Look, this is pure, unadulterated, undiluted, Protestant Reformation era Protestant Historicism which was preached, believed, and spread abroad throughout the entire world for over 300 years beginning in the days of Luther:

Babylon fell at the hands of the Medo Persian ram which waxed "great". ​

​

Then, Medo Persia fell at the hands of the Greek he-goat which wax "very great". ​

​

Then, Greece fell at the hands of the Pagan Rome little horn which waxed "exceeding great".​

But --- but there was no 5th world empire, for Pagan Rome crumbled from within to the ground and was eventually ruled by Papal Rome which "magnified himself to the Prince of the host (Jesus) and "by him the daily (SACRIFICE IS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL) was taken away" from Jesus our High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary, and he "cast the truth to the ground" and "practiced and prospered". The prophecies of the Bible which deal with the Little Horn, Man of Sin, Antichrist, Beast of Revelation 13, Whore of Babylon riding the Beast, King of the North, etc. are ALL referring to the Roman Catholic Papacy.​

Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Luther?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Calvin?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by John Wesley?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Charles Wesley?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Coverdale?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Tyndale?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Melancthon?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Zwingle?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Karlsdatd?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Knox?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Spalatin?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Cramner?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Latimer?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Ridley?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Bunderlin?

Are you aware the Jesuit Futurism you preach was preached only by Catholics until the mid-19th century?
Do you not see that you perhaps ought to at least revisit the entire issue?
Is it not irresponsible to accept Jesuit Futurism without investigating thoroughly Protestant Historicism and why it rejected Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism?

 

[rwb]

This makes little sense to me, since I believe that the spirits of all men are eternally existing! So the Holy Spirit, or the gift of Christ, doesn't make something "eternal" when it is already eternal!

It is the Spirit Who gives life, because the flesh profits nothing! The Spirit of Christ gives eternal life to all who believe Christ through His presence within us. Every human spirit returns to God Who gave it, but is every spirit from every human that returns to God at physical death with life through His Holy Spirit in us, or without life, knowing only silence and darkness.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

In this passage below Solomon is making a comparison between righteous men and wicked men. We are all born sons of men, but when we are born again through Christ's Spirit, we become sons of God. Solomon knows that ALL men will be judged, but that which befalls the sons of men is the same thing that befalls the beasts of the earth. In death the sons of men are no better off than the beasts, because all the sons of men know after death is silence and darkness. That is the fate of all sons of men who never become sons of God.

Ecclesiastes 3:17-19 (KJV) I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

The sons of men possess a spirit that gives them physical life. But their spirit is said to be "dead in trespasses and sins." To go from being dead in trespasses and sins to being alive in Christ, our spirit must be made alive (quickened) by the Holy Spirit together with Christ to be saved. That is what happens when the sons of men hear the Gospel proclaimed, and by grace through faith they believe. Now, possessing life through His Spirit with our spirit, the life we have is eternal, and our spirit will NEVER die.

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:4-6 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

The spirit in the sons of men returns to God, but without life that comes from the Spirit. Because in life they never became the sons of God, therefore in death they shall know nothing until they are physically resurrected to stand before God at the GWTJ.

It is only the sons of men, who in life became the sons of God through Christ and His Spirit, that leave our mortal, corrupt physical body after death, and go a spiritual body to heaven to be with the Lord there until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. Then our body too will be resurrected immortal, united with our eternal spirit, now perfect for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

 

[rwb]

Eternal Life, for me, is the gift of eternal fellowship with God, an eternal sharing with Him His virtues and blessings. It is not about eternal existence, which exists for believers and unbelievers alike. Where are we messing up here? Where are we differing?

Eternal life for believers and unbelievers alike? I guess you must ask and answer, where this eternal life be spent?

 

[stormymonday]

The King of the North refers to the king of Babylon, which is symbolic in prophecy. Babylon fell long ago in antiquity and the prophet Isaiah says in absolutely no uncertain terms that the empire of Babylon "shall never be rebuilt" -- which means this Babylonian "North" is symbolic, WHICH MEANS THIS "KING" IS ALSO SYMBOLIC. It's not referring to a single man, nor is "man of sin" referring to a single man any more than "that the man of God may be perfect" refers to a singular man.

Look, this is pure, unadulterated, undiluted, Protestant Reformation era Protestant Historicism which was preached, believed, and spread abroad throughout the entire world for over 300 years beginning in the days of Luther:

Babylon fell at the hands of the Medo Persian ram which waxed "great". ​

​

Then, Medo Persia fell at the hands of the Greek he-goat which wax "very great". ​

​

Then, Greece fell at the hands of the Pagan Rome little horn which waxed "exceeding great".​

But --- but there was no 5th world empire, for Pagan Rome crumbled from within to the ground and was eventually ruled by Papal Rome which "magnified himself to the Prince of the host (Jesus) and "by him the daily (SACRIFICE IS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL) was taken away" from Jesus our High Priest in the heavenly Sanctuary, and he "cast the truth to the ground" and "practiced and prospered". The prophecies of the Bible which deal with the Little Horn, Man of Sin, Antichrist, Beast of Revelation 13, Whore of Babylon riding the Beast, King of the North, etc. are ALL referring to the Roman Catholic Papacy.​

Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Luther?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Calvin?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by John Wesley?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Charles Wesley?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Coverdale?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Tyndale?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Melancthon?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Zwingle?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Karlsdatd?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Knox?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Spalatin?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Cramner?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Latimer?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Ridley?
Are you aware the Protestant Historicism I've written here was preached by Bunderlin?

Are you aware the Jesuit Futurism you preach was preached only by Catholics until the mid-19th century?
Do you not see that you perhaps ought to at least revisit the entire issue?
Is it not irresponsible to accept Jesuit Futurism without investigating thoroughly Protestant Historicism and why it rejected Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism?

I'm going to ask you the very same question I've asked hundreds of others over the last 20 plus years.

If you are so convinced that these men are correct about Rome, and if you adamantly believe Rome is - the Little Horn, Man of Sin, Antichrist, Beast of Revelation 13, Whore of Babylon, then surely there must be at least ONE end-time prophecy in the entire bible that affirms these accusations. IOW there must be at least ONE end-time prophecy that specifically points to Rome, Catholicism, or the Papacy. CAN YOU QUOTE ONE for the forum please?

 

[rwb]

Again, "spirit bodies" have to do, for the Christian, with the reception of immortal physical bodies. The "flesh and blood" we currently have cannot obtain eternal life because it has been condemned to die--it has been since the Fall.

Again, that makes no sense! Believers will NEVER become physical "spirit bodies". We are physical bodies with a spirit that came from God, and the two together make us living souls. In the resurrection of our physical bodies, we will still be physical bodies with a spirit that gives our body life. Believers don't become something that sounds supernatural "spirit-body" when our bodies are resurrected and changed. Our physical body shall have IMMORTAL & INCORRUPTIBLE life, with our ETERNAL spirit. When our body becomes immortal it will NEVER die! Why would immortality need eternal life since immortal is to have everlasting life? Do you believe the immortal body we shall be when physically resurrected will be as God created man in the beginning? I believe we will be like what we were before sin and death came. God called His creation human beings, with a physical body, a spirit within, and together a living soul. We were not created a spirit-body, but a body with a spirit, and I believe we shall be as we once were created again.

 

[covenantee]

The popes represent Jesus Christ. They don't claim to be Jesus Christ himself.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Not a representative.

Rather, a counterfeit substitute.

1. All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17 Bellarmine (1542-1621)
2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”

 

[Phoneman777]

The popes represent Jesus Christ. They don't claim to be Jesus Christ himself.

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, He is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.” - Catholic National, July 1895

There are many quotes where the popes are claimed to be "another God on Earth" and such.

For over 20 years I've been asking CHRISTIANS to quote ONE verse of end-time prophecy that specifically identifies Rome as the man of sin - any of the beast - the little horn - or the whore of Babylon. For some reason NOT ONE person has ever been able to quote ONE verse in 20 years! NOT ONE!

How were the Jews to identify the Messiah? By an OT verse which says something like:

"Attention, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the name of the coming Messiah...make sure you don't nail Him to a Cross...that is all". -- Song of Slow-man 1:23

Or, were they to identify Him by examining whether His deeds coincided with the prophecies which foretold of them?

The Jews failed to recognize Jesus for the same reason you fail to recognize the Papacy as the prophesied Man of Sin, Little Horn of Daniel, Whore of Revelation 17, Beast of Revelation 13, King of the North, Antichrist.

 

[stormymonday]

Not a representative.

Rather, a counterfeit substitute.

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1. “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17 Bellarmine (1542-1621)
2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”

That's right - the Vicar- representative of God.

Ferraris was an 18th century Franciscan. It doesn't matter what he says anyway because he doesn't reflect the beliefs of all Catholics whether then or today.

Catholics are NOT anti-Christ. They believe in Jesus' life, miracles, crucifixion, atonement, resurrection, and ascension. They are NOT anti-Christ!

Maybe you should look at the abomination that 'sits upon' God's holy place on the Temple Mount. Maybe you should look at what is said around the octagonal structure of this abomination.

The Temple Mount or Mount Moriah is at the geographically center of Jerusalem's seven MOUNTAINS.

Around the octagonal structure of the Dome of the Rock is a long classical Arabic inscription that says that God has no begotten son, thus denying that Jesus is the Son of God.

Inscriptions on the octagonal structure of the Dome are anti-Christ. They say...

- There is no God but Allah.
- God has no son; He begetteth not.
- God taketh not unto Himself a son.
- God has no associate.
- Muhammad is the messenger of God.
- Allah will preside on Judgment Day.

Now think about this. This is anti-Christ message is written on a heathen shrine that occupies the only piece of ground on earth that God claimed was His Own!

These images in the marble developed over time. They were not etched in. They look like the two types of alien's people document as seeing. The short ones with the big eyes and the tall ones like the one on the left.

 

[stormymonday]

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, He is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.” - Catholic National, July 1895

There are many quotes where the popes are claimed to be "another God on Earth" and such.

How were the Jews to identify the Messiah? By an OT verse which says something like:

"Attention, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the name of the coming Messiah...make sure you don't nail Him to a Cross...that is all". - Song of Slow-man 1:1 NIV (non inspired version)

Or, were they to identify Him by examining whether His deeds coincided with the prophecies which foretold of them?

The Jews failed to recognize Jesus for the same reason you fail to recognize the Papacy as the prophesied Man of Sin, Little Horn of Daniel, Whore of Revelation 17, Beast of Revelation 13, King of the North, Antichrist.

You can claim all day long that Daniel 7 and Revelation13 and 17 are Rome but YOU have to prove your point scripturally - how about answering my question? Here it is again...

If you are so adamantly believe that Rome is, "the Little Horn, Man of Sin, Antichrist, Beast of Revelation 13, Whore of Babylon, and King of the North...

Then surely there must be at least ONE end-time prophecy in the entire bible that affirms these accusations.

There must be at least ONE end-time prophecy that specifically points to Rome, Catholicism, or the Papacy. CAN YOU QUOTE ONE for the forum please?

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm going to ask you the very same question I've asked hundreds of others over the last 20 plus years.

If you are so convinced that these men are correct about Rome, and if you adamantly believe Rome is - the Little Horn, Man of Sin, Antichrist, Beast of Revelation 13, Whore of Babylon, then surely there must be at least ONE end-time prophecy in the entire bible that affirms these accusations. IOW there must be at least ONE end-time prophecy that specifically points to Rome, Catholicism, or the Papacy. CAN YOU QUOTE ONE for the forum please?

Have you never read in Daniel where after the fall of the fourth beast and rise of the ten horns there would rise among them "another little horn"?

Rome was the fourth beast which fell, after which the Ten Barbarian tribes arose and began to fight each other until they agreed the Bishop of Rome would have to rule over them to establish lasting peace, and BOOM, in walks the Papacy in 538 A.D. which even SECULAR historians recognize as having taken control over these Ten kingdoms.

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against antichrist, and as to what antichrist is, NO SANE MAN ought to raise the question. If it be not the popery in the CHURCH OF ROME, there is nothing else in the world that can be called by that name." - Charles Spurgeon​