Yes, separation from God, but it does not say the second death as the lake of fire shall not burn up whosoever goes there. The death or if you prefer separation from God is everlasting but the fire shall consume utterly whosoever is cast there.
Understanding the Unquenchable Fire.
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Yes, separation from God, but it does not say the second death as the lake of fire shall not burn up whosoever goes there. The death or if you prefer separation from God is everlasting but the fire shall consume utterly whosoever is cast there.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Think!! LOL If those that are cast into the lake of fire go poof and are destroyed then why would the lake of fire burn for eternity and the smoke of their burning go up for eternity????
Revelation 20:10, 14-15 tell us that the lake of fire never stops burning. It burns day and night
Revelation 20:10, 14-15 tell us that the lake of fire never stops burning. It burns day and night
Revelation 20:10 adds that the lake of sulfur fire burns forever and ever.
Perhaps you're trying too hard? Where have I ever said those going into the lake of fire that is the second death "go poof"? I've gone out of my way to say there most assuredly is suffering and torment for those who go there, and that which is everlasting is death. Contradiction is apparently not a problem for you, but I know that if contradiction is found because some cannot reconcile what is written, it is not the Bible but the understanding that is at fault. Because God NEVER contradicts Himself as your understanding does!
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
There is NO Contradiction in God's eternal living Word but there are many people that lack understanding and are deceived by satan.
Exactly! Which is why I pointed out the contradiction your understanding of this topic tries to force into the Word of God!
The separation is only possible if God judges you as wicked and does not bring you back to life. Thus when you are consumed in the lake of fire, it makes it with no possibility of a return to life for eternity.
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GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Revelation 14:11
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.Luke 16:19-31
King James Version
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
LOL!! So was Jesus just "joking' just making up a story????really??? or was Jesus telling us about a named man that was in a all too real eternal hell??
The Greek Pagan views, basically Hellenism, had influenced the Jews and even the Jewish scholars in their thinking with regard to the afterlife. Josephus writes on this and shows the pagan Hellenistic ideas were being picked up by the Jews by this time, as he believed that the dead went either to heaven or to hell, whilst they awaited the resurrection. The righteous were assigned to a place which was called the "bosom of Abraham", whilst the wicked were separated from them by a deep chasm and were confined to a place where they could hear and see the fires of hell. Nowhere in the Scriptures is there a doctrinal teaching of an immediate afterlife or you go up and drift around on a cloud. The Lazarus that Jesus raised from the dead did certainly not go to heaven or "Abraham's bosom" when he died. The New Testament teachings on this issue are plain. These views are inconsistent with the clear teachings of Scriptures that the "dead know not anything" and that we go to heaven to be with Christ, not the 'bosom' of those in the grave..
Are you saying that when Christ says whoever lives and believes in Him shall never die, He wasn't aware that after the physical body of a believer dies the spirit having the Spirit of Christ within returns to God without life? Why is the Spirit of Christ within faithful believers within us until our physical body has also been redeemed if our spirit, like our flesh is in silence and darkness as our physical body shall be?
Ephesians 1:11-14 (KJV) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
As long as we sin, I think there will be a fire. Our sin provides the fuel for the fire.
Well, there is a lot of things that are not understood because people like to look at a text or so, and dont read all the Bible, line by line, precept by precept, etc.. and bring it together. There are many ideas and traditions, so lets take a closer look at the idea of everlasting torment. Here is from my buddy Palehorse's essay on this:
I felt it necessary to do this study for a variety of reasons; but the most important one, in my opinion, is dispelling the false belief of an ever-lasting hell which has turned more people away from the Bible (and Christianity) than probably any other singular topic. No one, not even me, would worship an unloving God that burned people in an ever-lasting torment for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The truth is that the Bible doesnt teach that and that concept flies in the face of the all-loving God we know Him to be; as such, denominations that teach this concept had better rethink their position not only for the sake of Biblical accuracy but also because this pagan teaching (which is rooted firmly in ancient Greek Hellenistic teachings) is causing the massive decay of the Christian church today.
The root of the problem here is the Biblical meaning of the words 'for ever', 'everlasting' and the various forms of 'unquenchable', i.e. 'not be quenched'. Most people, understandably so, misunderstand the Biblical concept of these terms. In the Bible these terms sometimes do and sometimes dont equate to our modern meaning of "forever". In todays usage these terms mean 'for the ceaseless ages of eternity' for the most part though not exclusively. For example:
A married couple: they tell each other 'I will love you forever' but we all know that people die. What they are truly saying is 'they love each other until death', right? This is a parallel to see how even in modern times "forever" doesnt necessarily mean the ceaseless age of eternity.
So, lets establish what the Bible writers concept of forever was:
Genesis 43:9 - I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:
Genesis 44:32 - For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.
This was pre-incarnate Jesus talking to the Father in regards to mans sin. Now, will Jesus bear the blame forever? No. (see Hebrews 9:28) The day will come when there is an end to sin. So the meaning here is clearly meant as until it is done.
Exodus 12:14 - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:17 - And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:24 - And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
But we know that the feasts were done away with when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ. Exodus 12:14 is talking about the institution of the Passover; later Jesus became our Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The key in this verse is the part that says by an ordinance. We know that the ordinances were nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14); and there arent any ordinances in the 10 Commandments. So again we find that forever does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity as is commonly misunderstood.
Lets get some more examples:
Exodus 19:9 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
The question here is, how can the people believe thee for ever if they were mere mortals? They could not, of course, unless they were saved and would get ressurected at Christ's second coming. They died and the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5). The meaning here is that they would believe for as long as they lived, not the ceaseless ages of eternity. Also, the thick cloud that could be seen by day (it was a fire from the sky at night) was no longer seen after Moses death. So, again, for ever does not equate to our modern understanding of forever.
Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Would it be possible for a servant or master to live forever? No. Is a man still a servant to another after death? No. This clearly means that the servant would be a servant for the rest of his life and not the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Exodus 27:21 - In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
Exodus 28:43 - And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Did the earthly tabernacle and its ceremonies last forever? No. (see Col. 2:14) Again, we find the meaning of for ever to mean until it is done.
In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out; it will not last for the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Jeremiah 17:27 - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall NOT BE QUENCHED.
We all know that Jerusalem is not still burning today; as such the fire that 'shall not be quenched' means that it cannot be put out UNTIL it has done Gods purpose. No man can quench it; only God can. And God obviously did quench that fire else it would still be burning to this day....
...We find in the following verses the same concept:
Isaiah 1:28-31 - And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. 29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. 30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water. 31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
The key here is the last part of the last line: 'and none shall quench them.' This clearly means that no one will be able to quench the fire that burns the wicked. But just as we learned in Jeremiah 17:27 only God can quench a fire that He has started. God is consistent in His doings.
When we apply this to another example from Isaiah where he further talks of Christs second coming, we now understand it more clearly:
Isaiah 34:8-10 - For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance (this is when it happens, not before) , and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Now we see that 'from generation to generation' means 'the generations of the wicked', i.e. generations of wicked people, not that the fire will last from generation to generation. The only way for that to mean otherwise would mean that people would be procreating in hell, which is an absurd notion. That would then further mean that babies born in hell would burn for no reason. That idea goes totally against what we know of Gods character, does it not? Also in this verse we find another "not be quenched" phrase which by now is clearly understood to mean "unstoppable until it has served its purpose".
Lets look at Jonahs example:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars were about me FOR EVER: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
The book of Matthew says Jonah was in the belly of the whale THREE DAYS; not for ever. Here we see the same thing that 'for ever' can mean a limited amount of time. Though I must say, to Jonah those 3 days must have seemed like forever. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this meant "10 generations."
These examples should be ample to illustrate that 'for ever' according to Biblical teachings does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity. The same holds true for other phrases such as "not be quenched" and "everlasting"....
Isaiah 1:28-31 - And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. 29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. 30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water. 31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
The key here is the last part of the last line: 'and none shall quench them.' This clearly means that no one will be able to quench the fire that burns the wicked. But just as we learned in Jeremiah 17:27 only God can quench a fire that He has started. God is consistent in His doings.
When we apply this to another example from Isaiah where he further talks of Christs second coming, we now understand it more clearly:
Isaiah 34:8-10 - For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance (this is when it happens, not before) , and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Now we see that 'from generation to generation' means 'the generations of the wicked', i.e. generations of wicked people, not that the fire will last from generation to generation. The only way for that to mean otherwise would mean that people would be procreating in hell, which is an absurd notion. That would then further mean that babies born in hell would burn for no reason. That idea goes totally against what we know of Gods character, does it not? Also in this verse we find another "not be quenched" phrase which by now is clearly understood to mean "unstoppable until it has served its purpose".
Lets look at Jonahs example:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars were about me FOR EVER: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
The book of Matthew says Jonah was in the belly of the whale THREE DAYS; not for ever. Here we see the same thing that 'for ever' can mean a limited amount of time. Though I must say, to Jonah those 3 days must have seemed like forever. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this meant "10 generations."
These examples should be ample to illustrate that 'for ever' according to Biblical teachings does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity. The same holds true for other phrases such as "not be quenched" and "everlasting"....
Look what Paul says a bit later on this same thing..
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
You are sealed by the Holy Spirit 'unto the day of redemption.' This is the resurrection, which we all await, and comes at end, the Second Coming.
The word “eternal” in Hebrew ’olam' or the Greek 'aion', 'aionios' carries different meanings, depending on the immediate context. For example, when associated with God, ”everlasting”, the word expresses His eternity.
Deuteronomy 33:27
The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
When related to human beings, “forever”, the word is limited by their life span as we can see here with this verse.
Exodus 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
When qualifying fire, “everlasting”, it implies that the fire will not go out until it fully consumes what is being burned. This means that the “eternal fire” will be eternal in the sense that it will consume the wicked completely and irreversibly, leaving no part of the wicked to go on as we see here.
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Here is from my friend Palehorse's study which explains meaning even further:
I felt it necessary to do this study for a variety of reasons; but the most important one, in my opinion, is dispelling the false belief of an ever-lasting hell which has turned more people away from the Bible (and Christianity) than probably any other singular topic. No one, not even me, would worship an unloving God that burned people in an ever-lasting torment for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The truth is that the Bible doesnt teach that and that concept flies in the face of the all-loving God we know Him to be; as such, denominations that teach this concept had better rethink their position not only for the sake of Biblical accuracy but also because this pagan teaching (which is rooted firmly in ancient Greek Hellenistic teachings) is causing the massive decay of the Christian church today.
The root of the problem here is the Biblical meaning of the words 'for ever', 'everlasting' and the various forms of 'unquenchable', i.e. 'not be quenched'. Most people, understandably so, misunderstand the Biblical concept of these terms. In the Bible these terms sometimes do and sometimes dont equate to our modern meaning of "forever". In today's usage these terms mean 'for the ceaseless ages of eternity' for the most part though not exclusively. For example:
A married couple: they tell each other "I'll love you forever" but we all know that people die. What they are truly saying is 'they love each other until death', right? This is a parallel to see how even in modern times "forever" doesnt necessarily mean the ceaseless age of eternity.
So, let's establish what the Bible writers concept of forever was:
Genesis 43:9 - I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:
Genesis 44:32 - For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.
This was pre-incarnate Jesus talking to the Father in regards to mans sin. Now, will Jesus bear the blame forever? No. (see Hebrews 9:28) The day will come when there is an end to sin. So the meaning here is clearly meant as until it is done.
Exodus 12:14 - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:17 - And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:24 - And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
But we know that the feasts were done away with when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ. Exodus 12:14 is talking about the institution of the Passover; later Jesus became our Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The key in this verse is the part that says by an ordinance. We know that the ordinances were nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14); and there arent any ordinances in the 10 Commandments. So again we find that forever does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity as is commonly misunderstood.
Let's get some more examples:
Exodus 19:9 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
The question here is, how can the people believe thee for ever if they were mere mortals? They could not, of course, unless they were saved and would get ressurected at Christ's second coming. They died and the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5). The meaning here is that they would believe for as long as they lived, not the ceaseless ages of eternity. Also, the thick cloud that could be seen by day (it was a fire from the sky at night) was no longer seen after Moses death. So, again, for ever does not equate to our modern understanding of forever.
Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Would it be possible for a servant or master to live forever? No. Is a man still a servant to another after death? No. This clearly means that the servant would be a servant for the rest of his life and not the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Exodus 27:21 - In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
Exodus 28:43 - And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Did the earthly tabernacle and its ceremonies last forever? No. (see Col. 2:14) Again, we find the meaning of for ever to mean until it is done.
In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out; it will not last for the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Jeremiah 17:27 - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.
We all know that Jerusalem is not still burning today; as such the fire that 'shall not be quenched' means that it cannot be put out UNTIL it has done God's purpose. No man can quench it; only God can. And God obviously did quench that fire else it would still be burning to this day.
Here is a even better look into the verse from Mark 9 'Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.' 'How can worms survive in eternal fire? How can we understand Mark 9:48?
Mark 9:48 is taken from Isa 66:24. In that chapter the future salvation of Jerusalem as well as the judgment on unbelievers are depicted. Interestingly enough v. 24 talks about corpses or dead bodies which are affected by the worm and the fire. These are not living beings anymore. The word “worm” is found in the singular and not in the plural. The fire is unquenchable in the sense that nobody can quench it until it has done its work. In Jer 17:27 the destruction of Jerusalem is announced which took place when the Babylonians conquered the city .The fire could not be quenched. But today it does not burn any longer. It burned until it had consumed what can be consumed. After that it was extinguished.
Thus, neither the fire nor the worm are eternal. The text does not talk about a soul either, separated from the body. If such a soul would exist, it would not be affected by worm or fire anyway. On the other hand, the worm cannot be equated with the disembodied soul of humans. The worm is “their worm”, namely those who stood in opposition to God and have now passed away. It is so to speak not an individual worm. The worm is furthermore so closely related to fire that it must be regarded as a means of destruction similar to the fire. Nowhere in the Bible is a worm identified with the soul. Living human beings can be compared to worms (Ps 22:6 and Job 25:6). However, when they die they become food for the worms, as Isaiah stresses in Isa 14:ll. In other words, within the Book of Isaiah “worm” is a term that relates to judgment. It is not a human part that lives on.
Mark 9:48 takes this figure of speech from Isaiah, which points to the unavoidable destruction and applies it to those who do not live according to the will of God. That it is indeed a figure of speech is obvious, since the worm exists in conjunction with fire, which is not possible in our natural world. Jesus connects the worm and the fire to the hell, gehenna. Gehenna is derived from the Hebrew word Hinnom, designating the valley south of Jerusalem (see Jer 7:32-34) in which according to tradition trash and even corpses were burnt. The lake of fire in Rev 20 seems to point to the same reality. The unbelievers are devoured by fire. The lake of fire is the second death (Rev 20:9,10,15). By using this imagery Jesus warns against the consequences of not following him and against the final judgment which will end with the complete annihilation of all evil and all evil ones.
The Bible teaches that humans are mortal. According to 1Tim 6:14-16 God alone is immortal. He bestows immortality as a gift on those who experience the first resurrection (1 Cor 15:51-54). Eternal life is always dependent on Christ and not attainable in separation from him...'
Mark 9:48 is taken from Isa 66:24. In that chapter the future salvation of Jerusalem as well as the judgment on unbelievers are depicted. Interestingly enough v. 24 talks about corpses or dead bodies which are affected by the worm and the fire. These are not living beings anymore. The word “worm” is found in the singular and not in the plural. The fire is unquenchable in the sense that nobody can quench it until it has done its work. In Jer 17:27 the destruction of Jerusalem is announced which took place when the Babylonians conquered the city .The fire could not be quenched. But today it does not burn any longer. It burned until it had consumed what can be consumed. After that it was extinguished.
Thus, neither the fire nor the worm are eternal. The text does not talk about a soul either, separated from the body. If such a soul would exist, it would not be affected by worm or fire anyway. On the other hand, the worm cannot be equated with the disembodied soul of humans. The worm is “their worm”, namely those who stood in opposition to God and have now passed away. It is so to speak not an individual worm. The worm is furthermore so closely related to fire that it must be regarded as a means of destruction similar to the fire. Nowhere in the Bible is a worm identified with the soul. Living human beings can be compared to worms (Ps 22:6 and Job 25:6). However, when they die they become food for the worms, as Isaiah stresses in Isa 14:ll. In other words, within the Book of Isaiah “worm” is a term that relates to judgment. It is not a human part that lives on.
Mark 9:48 takes this figure of speech from Isaiah, which points to the unavoidable destruction and applies it to those who do not live according to the will of God. That it is indeed a figure of speech is obvious, since the worm exists in conjunction with fire, which is not possible in our natural world. Jesus connects the worm and the fire to the hell, gehenna. Gehenna is derived from the Hebrew word Hinnom, designating the valley south of Jerusalem (see Jer 7:32-34) in which according to tradition trash and even corpses were burnt. The lake of fire in Rev 20 seems to point to the same reality. The unbelievers are devoured by fire. The lake of fire is the second death (Rev 20:9,10,15). By using this imagery Jesus warns against the consequences of not following him and against the final judgment which will end with the complete annihilation of all evil and all evil ones.
The Bible teaches that humans are mortal. According to 1Tim 6:14-16 God alone is immortal. He bestows immortality as a gift on those who experience the first resurrection (1 Cor 15:51-54). Eternal life is always dependent on Christ and not attainable in separation from him...'
This is a good site on this and covers much more on the issue...
'Unquenchable Fire
Someone may raise this question: What about the unquenchable fire that burns the wicked? Doesn't that mean it will never go out? Of course, it doesn't. To quench means to extinguish or put out. No one will be able to put out the fire of hell. That is the strange fire of God. No one will be able to escape from it by extinguishing it. Isaiah says of that fire, "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor a fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14. After it has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out. No one can deliver themselves from its flame by putting it out, but finally not a coal will be left. So say the Scriptures.
Jeremiah prophesied that Jerusalem would burn with a fire that could not be quenched (Jeremiah 17:27), but it burned down to ashes (2 Chronicles 36:19-21). Read those verses and see how the Bible uses the word "quench." It does not mean fire that will never go out. It only means what it says, "unquenchable." It can't be quenched.
And what can we say about the expressions "eternal" "everlasting" which are used to describe the fires of hell? There is absolutely no confusion or contradiction when we allow the Bible to supply its own definition of terms. Many make the mistake of applying modern definitions to those biblical words without reference to their an- cient contextual usage. This violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.
The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out. The same expression is used in Jude 7 concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. The Dead Sea rolls over the place where those ancient cities once stood. Yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. What is it an example of? "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6.
There it is! That eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. If this text is true, the same kind of fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. It will have to be eternal fire. Does that mean it will also burn the wicked to ashes? The Bible says Yes. "For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch ... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3.
No words of any language could make it more forceful or clear. This eternal fire burns up eternally. Even Satan, the root, is finally consumed. How consistent the whole picture appears as we let the Bible explain its own terms. What devious manipulation of words would be required to evade the obvious meaning of these words. Yet those who have been prejudiced by a lifetime of tradition can read those words "burn them up ... they shall be ashes" and still insist that the wicked are alive and suffering. Admittedly, there are some ambiguous verses on this subject, but we are finding that they all harmonize when the context is considered, and the Bible is allowed to be its own commentary.
Even Christ's words in Matthew 25:46 are not confusing when we the obvious meaning. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Many are troubled over the expression, "everlasting punishment," but notice that it does not say "everlasting punishing." Whatever the punishment is, it will last eternally. Does the Bible tell us what the punishment is? Of course. "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23. So Jesus was simply saying that the death would be everlasting. It would never end. It would never be broken by a resurrection.
Paul simplifies it further with these words: "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished ... " Now, listen, Paul is going to tell us what the punishment is. "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9. So the punishment is everlasting destruction - a destruction that is everlasting. From it there will be no resurrection or hope of life.
But what about that worm which dieth not? Many have read the words of Jesus about hell, "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:45, 46. Some have interpreted the worm to be the soul. Is that what Jesus meant? Nowhere in the Bible is there any allusion to the soul as a worm.
In this instance Jesus used the word "Gehenna" for the word "hell." It so happened that Gehenna was an actual place of burning just outside the walls of Jerusalem. No doubt, Christ's listeners could see the smoke curling up from the Valley of Gehenna, where dead bodies and garbage were constantly being burned. If anything fell outside the destructive flames, it was quickly consumed by maggots or worms. With the vivid scenes of utter extinction before their eyes, Jesus used the Gehenna fire as an example of the complete destruction of hell-fire. The fire was never quenched, and the worms were constantly at work upon the bodies-a picture of total destruction.
Perhaps the most easily misconstrued text about hell is John's allusion to the smoke ascending "for ever and ever." For those who are unfamiliar with other uses of this phrase in the Bible, it can be very confusing indeed. But a comparison of verses in both Old and New Testaments reveal that the words "for ever" are used 57 times in the Bible in reference to something that has already come to an end. In other words, "for ever" does not always mean "without end."
Many notable examples could be cited, but two or three are noteworthy. In Exodus 21, the conditions are laid down concerning the law of servitude. If a servant chose to continue serving the master he loved rather than his freedom when it came due, then his ear was to be pierced with an awl and the Scripture declares, "He shall serve him for ever." Verse 6. But how long would that servant serve his human master? Only as long as he lived, of course. So the words "for ever" did not mean without end. Hannah took her son Samuel to God's temple, where he would "there abide for ever." 1 Samuel 1:22. Yet in verse 28 we are plainly told, "As long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord." The original meaning of the term "for ever" indicates an indefinite period of time. Generally it defines the period of time in which something can continue to exist under the circumstances prevailing. Even Jonah's stay in the whale's belly is described by him as "for ever." Jonah 2:6.
Someone may object that this could also limit the life of the righteous in heaven, because they are described as glorifying God forever. The terms are the same for both the saved and the lost. But there is one tremendous difference in the circumstances involved. The saints have received the gift of immortality. Their life now measures with the life of God. Immortality means "not subject to death." The words "for ever" used in reference to them could only mean "without end," because they are immortal subjects already. But when "for ever" is used to describe the wicked, we are talking about mortal creatures who can die and must die. Their "for ever" is only as long as their mortal nature can survive in the fire which punishes them according to their works.'...
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'Unquenchable Fire
Someone may raise this question: What about the unquenchable fire that burns the wicked? Doesn't that mean it will never go out? Of course, it doesn't. To quench means to extinguish or put out. No one will be able to put out the fire of hell. That is the strange fire of God. No one will be able to escape from it by extinguishing it. Isaiah says of that fire, "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor a fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14. After it has accomplished its work of destruction, that fire will go out. No one can deliver themselves from its flame by putting it out, but finally not a coal will be left. So say the Scriptures.
Jeremiah prophesied that Jerusalem would burn with a fire that could not be quenched (Jeremiah 17:27), but it burned down to ashes (2 Chronicles 36:19-21). Read those verses and see how the Bible uses the word "quench." It does not mean fire that will never go out. It only means what it says, "unquenchable." It can't be quenched.
And what can we say about the expressions "eternal" "everlasting" which are used to describe the fires of hell? There is absolutely no confusion or contradiction when we allow the Bible to supply its own definition of terms. Many make the mistake of applying modern definitions to those biblical words without reference to their an- cient contextual usage. This violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.
The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out. The same expression is used in Jude 7 concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. The Dead Sea rolls over the place where those ancient cities once stood. Yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. What is it an example of? "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6.
There it is! That eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. If this text is true, the same kind of fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. It will have to be eternal fire. Does that mean it will also burn the wicked to ashes? The Bible says Yes. "For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch ... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3.
No words of any language could make it more forceful or clear. This eternal fire burns up eternally. Even Satan, the root, is finally consumed. How consistent the whole picture appears as we let the Bible explain its own terms. What devious manipulation of words would be required to evade the obvious meaning of these words. Yet those who have been prejudiced by a lifetime of tradition can read those words "burn them up ... they shall be ashes" and still insist that the wicked are alive and suffering. Admittedly, there are some ambiguous verses on this subject, but we are finding that they all harmonize when the context is considered, and the Bible is allowed to be its own commentary.
Even Christ's words in Matthew 25:46 are not confusing when we the obvious meaning. "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Many are troubled over the expression, "everlasting punishment," but notice that it does not say "everlasting punishing." Whatever the punishment is, it will last eternally. Does the Bible tell us what the punishment is? Of course. "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23. So Jesus was simply saying that the death would be everlasting. It would never end. It would never be broken by a resurrection.
Paul simplifies it further with these words: "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished ... " Now, listen, Paul is going to tell us what the punishment is. "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9. So the punishment is everlasting destruction - a destruction that is everlasting. From it there will be no resurrection or hope of life.
But what about that worm which dieth not? Many have read the words of Jesus about hell, "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:45, 46. Some have interpreted the worm to be the soul. Is that what Jesus meant? Nowhere in the Bible is there any allusion to the soul as a worm.
In this instance Jesus used the word "Gehenna" for the word "hell." It so happened that Gehenna was an actual place of burning just outside the walls of Jerusalem. No doubt, Christ's listeners could see the smoke curling up from the Valley of Gehenna, where dead bodies and garbage were constantly being burned. If anything fell outside the destructive flames, it was quickly consumed by maggots or worms. With the vivid scenes of utter extinction before their eyes, Jesus used the Gehenna fire as an example of the complete destruction of hell-fire. The fire was never quenched, and the worms were constantly at work upon the bodies-a picture of total destruction.
Perhaps the most easily misconstrued text about hell is John's allusion to the smoke ascending "for ever and ever." For those who are unfamiliar with other uses of this phrase in the Bible, it can be very confusing indeed. But a comparison of verses in both Old and New Testaments reveal that the words "for ever" are used 57 times in the Bible in reference to something that has already come to an end. In other words, "for ever" does not always mean "without end."
Many notable examples could be cited, but two or three are noteworthy. In Exodus 21, the conditions are laid down concerning the law of servitude. If a servant chose to continue serving the master he loved rather than his freedom when it came due, then his ear was to be pierced with an awl and the Scripture declares, "He shall serve him for ever." Verse 6. But how long would that servant serve his human master? Only as long as he lived, of course. So the words "for ever" did not mean without end. Hannah took her son Samuel to God's temple, where he would "there abide for ever." 1 Samuel 1:22. Yet in verse 28 we are plainly told, "As long as he liveth he shall be lent to the Lord." The original meaning of the term "for ever" indicates an indefinite period of time. Generally it defines the period of time in which something can continue to exist under the circumstances prevailing. Even Jonah's stay in the whale's belly is described by him as "for ever." Jonah 2:6.
Someone may object that this could also limit the life of the righteous in heaven, because they are described as glorifying God forever. The terms are the same for both the saved and the lost. But there is one tremendous difference in the circumstances involved. The saints have received the gift of immortality. Their life now measures with the life of God. Immortality means "not subject to death." The words "for ever" used in reference to them could only mean "without end," because they are immortal subjects already. But when "for ever" is used to describe the wicked, we are talking about mortal creatures who can die and must die. Their "for ever" is only as long as their mortal nature can survive in the fire which punishes them according to their works.'...
Hell-fire | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts
The false doctrine of an ever-burning place of torment controlled by the devil has caused many to stray from God and distrust His loving character. But now you can have biblical evidence against a hell of eternal suffering and punishment and find assurance in God's love and mercy. Perfect for...
www.amazingfacts.org
When you believe, you also have faith that He who has the power can raise us even from death at the resurrection and give us life, as He made clear....
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Well when we are separated from the source of life at the Lake of Fire, there is nothing more to consume.
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