Universalism is a dangerous doctrine

[Jay Ross]

Just butting into this thread. Since the wrath of God abides on the unbelieving already and the bible also says the whole world lies under the wrath of God, so it makes sense that saving a soul means pulling them out of the fire/wrath that they are already in, as well.

People during their earthly life, from when they are born, are already candidates for the second death. If the saints can convince them that they need to repent of their acquired sins, then they gain the prospect of having everlasting life forever. However if they then sin and do not repent of that sin after being given life, they again become a candidate for the second death.

I suggest that you read Ezekiel 18 with an open mind and the Holy Spirit so that you can see where the second death is mentioned and how it is possible for people to gain God's grace and live. God's offer of this grace evaporates once they physically die and stop breathing if they have not repented of their sins. Their destiny is then set in concrete. Satan's lie contained in Universalism is that you can sin as much as you like while you draw breath as you can save yourself even while in the lake of fire. If Satan himself cannot escape the lake of fire once he is dispatched into the lake of fire, then how can people do what Satan cannot if while they are alive they continually sin against God.

 

[Lizbeth]

People during their earthly life, from when they are born, are already candidates for the second death. If the saints can convince them that they need to repent of their acquired sins, then they gain the prospect of having everlasting life forever. However if they then sin and do not repent of that sin after being given life, they again become a candidate for the second death.

I suggest that you read Ezekiel 18 with an open mind and the Holy Spirit so that you can see where the second death is mentioned and how it is possible for people to gain God's grace and live. God's offer of this grace evaporates once they physically die and stop breathing if they have not repented of their sins. Their destiny is then set in concrete. Satan's lie contained in Universalism is that you can sin as much as you like while you draw breath as you can save yourself even while in the lake of fire. If Satan himself cannot escape the lake of fire once he is dispatched into the lake of fire, then how can people do what Satan cannot if while they are alive they continually sin against God.

Amen.....Ezekiel 18 is a witness of this truth and edifying to read and be reminded. And the whole book of Jude also. It's such a deception not to take the clear warnings of scripture seriously....written for our good.....we need them. God is not mocked. I pray that those who need to will open their eyes. It's appointed unto man but once to die and after that JUDGMENT.....physical death clearly is the demarcation line.

 

[MatthewG]

Revelation has great truth in it. Thank you all for commenting and taking a look.

Universalism is a dangerous doctrine

Link Directive - All considerable information for the benefit of skeptics, believers, or unbelievers. Keep growing and maturing, look at the scriptures and seek truth, and may the spirit guide. #2 The End of Material Religion # 14 For your consideration. -> A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON FULFILLMENT...

www.christianityboard.com

This link above will take you to the original posr.

 

[Episkopos]

Universalism is a dangerous doctrine.

All the focus is on - Jesus saving everyone at the end. Doesn't matter what kind of life a person lived. Doesn't matter if they worshiped idols, or anything like that. Doesn't matter if they ever believed there was a God that was mighty than them. Jesus is just gonna save everyone in the end. Now, while I believe in Universal salvation (Jesus saved everyone since his victory - from Satan, his angels, death, hades, the wrath of God that came on Jerusalem, and of course sin has been paid for (it was paid for already) There is no such thing as "All way lead to heaven" which is basically what universalism is.There is only one way to heaven, that is through Christ Jesus. He is the truth, the way, the life and no one gets to the Father except through Him.


While I do believe the Lake of fire still exist it comes from God, and John the beloved - states there are people on the outside of the heavenly CITY. The city gates never close but the damage is done after this life of resurrection, without Christ. There is only the resurrection of condemnation - with a spiritual body not equipped to dwell in the light - they live outside of the Kingdom. This is good to at least know, that God doesn't destroy them because he desires none to perish - however he does get rid of everything of the prior age mentioned in the second note of (salvation).

The only way to receive deliverance is to come to Christ and die, be buried, and raise with Him being born again in newness of life. So everyone is saved from - Jesus saved everyone since his victory - from Satan, his angels, death, hades, the wrath of God that came on Jerusalem, and Sin has been paid for. Salvation to be delivered from darkness to light, and to be saved to (notice the difference) (From - To) - the Kingdom of God is to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ, and the one whom he had sent which is eternal life, and to believe on them.

There is no "all ways lead to heaven" which is Universalism which says - all are going straight into the Kingdom of God.

I do believe people will come to know Christ in the afterlife but the damage they did to themselves is permanent, and coming through the lake of fire - perhaps it gets rid of all the darkness and what little is left of them remains compared to those who choose to have faith and build spiritual treasures in heaven, following Christ. Those in the darkness, have to make the choice to come and walk towards God going through "the fire and flames" - does it burn like normal fire? IDK but it will be tough to deny oneself to get through. Reconciliationism. God is good. He has a purpose but it's not like some think, especially in the realm of "universalism."​

Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

Any extreme doctrinal position is dangerous. The other side of that extremist coin is to think that only believers in Christ can be saved. That is another very dangerous doctrine. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....especially for those who believe (but not exclusively)

We are to invite people into the marriage feast of the Lamb as guests...not just as the Bride.

 

[amigo de christo]

Just butting into this thread. Since the wrath of God abides on the unbelieving already and the bible also says the whole world lies under the wrath of God, so it makes sense that saving a soul means pulling them out of the fire/wrath that they are already in, as well.

Since we read the actual bible . my advice is FOLKS NEED TO SIMPLY preach the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS
and all things HE did teach . I never seen JESUS preach any type of universalism , did you .
What i seen from him was the message BELIEVE and what i seen HIM say to those who rejected and beleived not
was a message of DIRE CONSEQUENCES , better even for sodom and words to that effect .
My advice is , as i am sure you do agree , WE SIMPLY PREACH JESUS and behold both the goodness and severity of GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Any extreme doctrinal position is dangerous. The other side of that extremist coin is to think that only believers in Christ can be saved. That is another very dangerous doctrine. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....especially for those who believe (but not exclusively)

We are to invite people into the marriage feast of the Lamb as guests...not just as the Bride.

THEN TRY READING what JESUS said about those who heard and yet believed not , rejected . TRY reading the bible for a change pardner .

 

[L.A.M.B.]

How in this world can post number 24 not be considered heresy and a rejection of the truth , stated here by the Lord!
John 3:18
18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he HATH NOT believed in the name of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

To deny Jesus is to deny God. Jesus said this also....
John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BUT BY ME.

No Jesus = no God = eternal separation from God, choosing rather to believe a LIE and be DAMNED !

 

[amigo de christo]

How in this world can post number 24 not be considered heresy and a rejection of the truth , stated here by the Lord!
John 3:18
18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he HATH NOT believed in the name of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

To deny Jesus is to deny God. Jesus said this also....
John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BUT BY ME.

No Jesus = no God = eternal separation from God, choosing rather to believe a LIE and be DAMNED !

The reason more and more dont see it as total blasphemy , heresay and rejection of truth
is because more and more are going under the all inclusive stuff . Over seventy percent of christains now
beleive GOD is fine with all religions . THATS WHY sister . THE GOSPEL HAS BEEN SOLD OUT for a lie
and a love that will not save them .

 

[amigo de christo]

How in this world can post number 24 not be considered heresy and a rejection of the truth , stated here by the Lord!
John 3:18
18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he HATH NOT believed in the name of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

To deny Jesus is to deny God. Jesus said this also....
John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BUT BY ME.

No Jesus = no God = eternal separation from God, choosing rather to believe a LIE and be DAMNED !

marvel not sister , we were warned a great depature from the true faith WOULD occur nigh the end .
The gospel has been hijacked and replaced within churches . Sie vun werld religion of its version of love has slowly
transformed the churches and yes even the other false religions to join as one . They call it love now .
they call it love . It aint . its a lie from the devil and CHRIST has been trod under foot for a LIE that wont save a one of them
who rejected the truth and bought the lie .
But , as i often say , folks gonna do as folks gonna do . But , OH YES DEAR SISTER you already know what i am about to type .
Lambs GONNA DO AS JESUS SAID TO DO . YEP .

 

[MatthewG]

Any extreme doctrinal position is dangerous. The other side of that extremist coin is to think that only believers in Christ can be saved. That is another very dangerous doctrine. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....especially for those who believe (but not exclusively)

We are to invite people into the marriage feast of the Lamb as guests...not just as the Bride.

Hello Episkopos and good morning,

Yes. Even people whom claimed to be Christian, (and they were deranged in their minds), created cult followings and then killed their following congregates. Example Jim Jones, killing off a lot of people who followed him, or the cult like Heavens Gate, who were waiting for a comet to come back, and then they would leave this world by being raptured by it. There are also those who manipulate saying it is Gods will, when it is not Gods will and they harm either their spouse (male or female), or harming children, family members, friends. That is not good, and is evil (isn't it? bad.)

You are right, about the bride, and the spirit, they call out from heaven (at least that is the way I see it), (Psalms 19:1.)

Revelation 22 (Verse 17)

 

[Episkopos]

How in this world can post number 24 not be considered heresy and a rejection of the truth , stated here by the Lord!

In your view the bible was written by heretics. Anybody can grab a verse that he/she thinks justifies him/her, and then judge others based on that extreme position.
The bible is not meant for private interpretation. You assume that some verses negate other ones...the ones you like.

Jesus would also been seen as a heretic by you.

You can only go in circles with that way of seeing things. Will the meek inherit the Earth? Did Jesus come to condemn the world...as you want to do?

Your reading is very superficial. A new believer has your kind of lopsided view. Have you never been instructed? Are you a new believer?

John 3:18
18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he HATH NOT believed in the name of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

Some of the problem is with the translation...it is dogmatic...not showing the depth of the statement.

Those who believe INTO (eis) Jesus do the works of heaven...miraculous things that Jesus did. The above statement is from a holiness perspective. How many walk as Jesus walked...in His miraculous power? Do you? Or do you want Jesus to start a religion based on religious beliefs?

Look at the end of Jesus' statement...

John 3:21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

At the holiness level of walk, the works come from heaven. Miraculous works. Modern Pharisees read the above verse ...that his BELIEFS might be made manifest (by virtue signalling and pontificating) ...that they are wrought in a religious mind.

Jesus doesn't say that those who fail to enter into Him go to hell. That idea comes from people....indoctrinated religious people. Jesus came to save the world...not condemn the world. But God is holy. If we fail holiness, we can still be saved...as by fire. Read the bible...not just interpret a certain verse the way that negates half of the verses.

To deny Jesus is to deny God. Jesus said this also....
John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BUT BY ME.

No Jesus = no God = eternal separation from God, choosing rather to believe a LIE and be DAMNED !

Sure. But the people that push that on others don't realize they condemn themselves by pronouncing a holy judgment based on a high standard...impossible for men to do... when they themselves are not even walking in righteousness.

The Pharisees did the same thing as you do with the law...condemning all who didn't do as much as they thought they were doing.

Judge not lest you be judged.

Instead of styling yourself as some kind of teacher...ask questions. A new believer needs instruction in righteousness...as you most obviously do.

 

[Episkopos]

The bible is not meant to judge others by. The law of God was meant for each person to take to heart...or not. The Pharisees broke the law at a greater intensity than even the blatant sinners. How so? They read the law and looked at others...judging them...rather than take the law to heart for themselves and repent.

Even LESS so is grace meant to judge others by. God is merciful to us...and we are to pass on that mercy to others. God judges...not us. There is no escaping a harsh judgment for those who condemn others for not doing as they do. A little wisdom is required here...to fear the Lord yourself!

We are to see the bible as something that WE are meant to take to heart, not judge others by.

Jesus said that sinners and prostitutes get into the kingdom faster than those who use their own religious understanding AGAINST others.

A lot of judges...yes believers...who judge illegally....will suffer the greatest judgment.

Will these learn to love, to have mercy? No, they will judge themselves into the judgment of God...thinking they are more righteous than the righteous. Just like the Pharisees did.

Stay tuned...

What of universalists...going too far the other way? Well both extremes negate the truth with their viewpoints. In both cases holiness is not satisfied. However, the universalist can still love others. So that heresy is better in regard to judgment from God.

Many will fail holiness. Many are called few are chosen.

 

[Episkopos]

Imagine a man who collects the garbage in front of your house (or apartment). He works hard at a very odious job. What if he looks down on all the rich people as he drives by...judging them for all the waste...and justifying himself by his hard work. Is that the right thing to do?

OR..what if that same man was thankful he had a job. He waves to little children as he happily goes about his business?

Which one is doing righteousness? Which one is behaving in a way that upholds Jesus' teaching? Does God love a humble and cheerful giver...or not? Or does God love a critical judge?

Dogmatic believers need not respond...just think on it.

 

[Lizbeth]

Any extreme doctrinal position is dangerous. The other side of that extremist coin is to think that only believers in Christ can be saved. That is another very dangerous doctrine. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....especially for those who believe (but not exclusively)

We are to invite people into the marriage feast of the Lamb as guests...not just as the Bride.

"Guests" at the wedding is just an allegory, not literal.....and it indicates the "Bride" is made up of many souls. The whole church of born again believers collectively, the Israel of God, is the bride of Christ. (Eph 5, 2Cor 11:5)

"Especially" for those who believe....you better do some research as to the meaning of that word.....it can mean "specifically" for those who believe. Need to hear what the spirit is saying in any case. We have to "believe unto the saving of the soul". No other way to be saved....you can't preach there is any other way to be saved because neither Jesus nor the apostles preached or taught any other way, on the contrary Jesus said specifically that He is the only way. And saved souls are foreknown by God...elect according to the foreknowledge of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

The reason more and more dont see it as total blasphemy , heresay and rejection of truth
is because more and more are going under the all inclusive stuff . Over seventy percent of christains now
beleive GOD is fine with all religions . THATS WHY sister . THE GOSPEL HAS BEEN SOLD OUT for a lie
and a love that will not save them .

Amen. It's a web of deception that is being weaved by the deceived. So important to be anchored in the word of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So the opposite is true then- pulling unbelievers out of heaven right ?

do what?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Any extreme doctrinal position is dangerous. The other side of that extremist coin is to think that only believers in Christ can be saved. That is another very dangerous doctrine. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world....especially for those who believe (but not exclusively)

We are to invite people into the marriage feast of the Lamb as guests...not just as the Bride.

yeah,

We can live our life in unbelief, Give God the finger daily, and do our own thing. making ourself our own God. And die in this state.

and then get to heaven through unbelief.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How in this world can post number 24 not be considered heresy and a rejection of the truth , stated here by the Lord!
John 3:18
18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he HATH NOT believed in the name of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

To deny Jesus is to deny God. Jesus said this also....
John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BUT BY ME.

No Jesus = no God = eternal separation from God, choosing rather to believe a LIE and be DAMNED !

we are in the last days.

People want to be saved and be able to still live their lives in their own sin. yet they do not want to humble themselves and come to receive the grace of God..

 

[Episkopos]

we are in the last days.

People want to be saved and be able to still live their lives in their own sin. yet they do not want to humble themselves and come to receive the grace of God..

OH the irony. Judgment day is going to be terrifying...but interesting. It's like they say....don't be interesting to a doctor!

For your religious scheme to work we would have to be judged by our beliefs rather than our works.

Can you say an eternal "oops!"

 

[Rockerduck]

Imagine a man who collects the garbage in front of your house (or apartment). He works hard at a very odious job. What if he looks down on all the rich people as he drives by...judging them for all the waste...and justifying himself by his hard work. Is that the right thing to do?

OR..what if that same man was thankful he had a job. He waves to little children as he happily goes about his business?

Which one is doing righteousness? Which one is behaving in a way that upholds Jesus' teaching? Does God love a humble and cheerful giver...or not? Or does God love a critical judge?

Dogmatic believers need not respond...just think on it.

That's and easy answer. The man that is born again from above filled with the Holy Spirit, will honor his work and judge no man. The man that is spiritual walks by Faith and Spirit. Its the Holy Spirit that reveal's the truth to us who walk by Faith.

"Dogmatic believers need not respond...just think on it".

You are judging with this statement. Be at peace in the Lord,

Philippians 4:6-8 - Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.