Universalism is a dangerous doctrine

[Episkopos]

Blessings in Christ Jesus! Indeed. Yesterday I watched this thread and here is what I saw. Post number 24 was posted at 7:32 am. When I read it, I saw what you and others saw. The difference being, I saw it as bait. Me being a fisherman, I know bait when I see it. Later in the morning, after 11 am, he came back to see if anyone had taken the bait. It wasn't until after 3 pm that you made a comment about his false words. You see, once the bait is taken, he has his excuse to put down, denigrate, accuse, and eventually name call brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. This is not done out of innocence, but done purposely, to feed and elevate self. Any one who elevates himself, will be humbled under the mighty hand of The Lord.

I am a fisher of men and women. I do it to try and win those who are dogmatically indoctrinated into the present delusion. Those who justify themselves based on their beliefs. The Pharisees justified themselves by their religious affiliations...just like modern ones do.

You have to be crafty...in a good way...to get people rescued from their presumptions and assumptions. You have to be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove.

And even then, people prefer the convenient lie to the uncomfortable truth. That's just the way it has always been....then as now. My reward is with God. It is the ones who follow other deluded ones...championing a lie...they have their reward now.

 

[amigo de christo]

The overseer might be a fisher of men but the bait he is using KILLETH the fish that bites onto it . WELL done epi .
IF the fish you catch die , what good was it .

 

[amigo de christo]

Bad bait killeth .
but the pure and holy bait , food of the LORD , now that giveth life .

 

[MatthewG]

People who died today, having never been born again, are in Hell., as their SPIRIT is not in the Grave, and it certainly didn't go to Heaven where JESUS is located, whom they DIED RejectIng. (Never born again).

A FOOL believes that God is going to let a Christ REJECTOR, never born again, into Heaven where JESUS is ALIVE.

So, here is the thing.. These DAMNED ... John 3:36, who are in Hell, right now.... ALL BELIEVE in Jesus now, and they ALL believe that Hell exists now, and yet, their FAITH is not accepted by God.

You can't be born again in Hell as there is no CROSS of CHRIST offered to you, after you DIE.
So, if you rejected it (HIM) while you were on the Earth, you get no 2nd Chance later.

Right now, Hell is filled with people who want a 2nd Chance, and all of them BELIEVE in JESUS NOW.
Hell is FILLED with BELIEVERS who didnt Believe before they went to HELL for their UNBELIEF. = never born again.
And they are still in Hell and God wont be letting them out of their "lake of fire" 2nd death Eternal Damnation, later on., even tho all of them "believe in Jesus" currently, and forever.

There are no born again, in Hell.
There are no Christ rejectors, never born again, in Heaven.

"Doctrines of Devils" will disagree, and that is what it is....

I don't believe that hell still exist, so yes I disagree with you.

 

[MatthewG]

The bible is not meant to judge others by. The law of God was meant for each person to take to heart...or not.

Many will fail holiness. Many are called few are chosen.

If you read that bible you will be judged... by God himself, in a sense. Holy means to be set apart for God's purposes. People have to still live in their flesh and live life. They enjoy all kinds of things in this world, and God sent Jesus to save the world... When you tell people things from the bible, just saying it can cause a judgment because the word of God is a two-edged sword. Someone hearing something for the first time from the bible can really effect their heart... They will either start turning towards more to God, or turn more away from God. Faith still comes by hearing the word of God, (also there are those whom only have the Creation to look at to see God as higher than themselves), that could change a heart however - for those who are fortunate enough to have a bible... the case is slightly altered... I remember reading the bible for the first time... and it made me by thinking Jesus was constantly talking to me - becoming a Judgemental person who knew Christ... but I wasnt a Christian just yet... until learning more of Gods love, and mercy, and how Jesus took care of the sins of the world and not only mine.

You comment "Many will fail holiness." Is a judgemental call yourself... instead of going that way... why not teach what it is instead? How do you know people know that they are or not, set apart for God's purpose or not?

Paul wrote to the people in Ephesus,



If you are a teacher, shouldn't you teach that?

Holiness is being set apart for Gods purpose, and doing righteous is Christ in and through you. You still have to be alive and active in this world though through your body... your earthly body... but Christ now lives in and through you and the more you set your mind on heavenly thing the more you will put off your flesh though it can flare up.




Paul wrote to the Colossian people, saying,

“Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory. So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming. You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him. In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized, slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us. Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others. Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony. And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful. Let the message about Christ, in all its richness, fill your lives. Teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts. And whatever you do or say, do it as a representative of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through him to God the Father. Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting for those who belong to the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and never treat them harshly. Children, always obey your parents, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged. Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord. Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ. But if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you have done. For God has no favorites.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭25‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Colossians 3:1-25 Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the t | New Living Translation (NLT)

Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the t

bible.com

 

[Behold]

I don't believe that hell still exist, so yes I disagree with you.

And you can thank the heretic who taught you that deception.

So, let me ask you MatthewG.

John 3:36 says that God's wrath, in the present tense, is on the Christ Rejector.
They are damned and waiting for the resolution of that after they die.

So, when one of those dies in the next 10 mins....... WHERE does their never born again, unredeemed "you are of your Father the Devil"..= spirit go?

Do you think it goes to Troy?

Utah?

Atlantis?

Jupiter?

HEAVEN?

Not quite.

 

[Episkopos]

If you read that bible you will be judged... by God himself, in a sense. Holy means to be set apart for God's purposes. People have to still live in their flesh and live life. They enjoy all kinds of things in this world, and God sent Jesus to save the world... When you tell people things from the bible, just saying it can cause a judgment because the word of God is a two-edged sword. Someone hearing something for the first time from the bible can really effect their heart... They will either start turning towards more to God, or turn more away from God. Faith still comes by hearing the word of God, (also there are those whom only have the Creation to look at to see God as higher than themselves), that could change a heart however - for those who are fortunate enough to have a bible... the case is slightly altered... I remember reading the bible for the first time... and it made me by thinking Jesus was constantly talking to me - becoming a Judgemental person who knew Christ... but I wasnt a Christian just yet... until learning more of Gods love, and mercy, and how Jesus took care of the sins of the world and not only mine.

You comment "Many will fail holiness." Is a judgemental call yourself... instead of going that way... why not teach what it is instead? How do you know people know that they are or not, set apart for God's purpose or not?

Paul wrote to the people in Ephesus,

View attachment 36233

If you are a teacher, shouldn't you teach that?

Holiness is being set apart for Gods purpose, and doing righteous is Christ in and through you. You still have to be alive and active in this world though through your body... your earthly body... but Christ now lives in and through you and the more you set your mind on heavenly thing the more you will put off your flesh though it can flare up.




Paul wrote to the Colossian people, saying,

“Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory. So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming. You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him. In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized, slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us. Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others. Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony. And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful. Let the message about Christ, in all its richness, fill your lives. Teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts. And whatever you do or say, do it as a representative of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through him to God the Father. Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting for those who belong to the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and never treat them harshly. Children, always obey your parents, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not aggravate your children, or they will become discouraged. Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord. Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. Remember that the Lord will give you an inheritance as your reward, and that the Master you are serving is Christ. But if you do what is wrong, you will be paid back for the wrong you have done. For God has no favorites.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭25‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Colossians 3:1-25 Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the t | New Living Translation (NLT)

Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the t

bible.com

I said "many will try entering into holiness but will be unable" And that's beside the many who don't even try.

Jesus said that many will try to enter into Him through the narrow gate...and be unable. Many modern believers are such by going in by another way. Many false teachers have arisen...back door ministries...fitting through windows ministries...all very popular because avoiding the narrow way will always appeal to the carnally religious.

Holiness is too hard a place to dwell for we humans. It takes time and patience to become accustomed to a fully DEAD self-life....depending on God for our next breath. This state is basically unknown in the rich West.

If very few enter the kingdom realm even in poor countries...where does that leave us?

Will we humble ourselves? No. We prefer hubris to humility. We prefer our own freedom to being a bond-slave of Christ.

 

[ChristisGod]

self abasement is not biblical humility is pharisaism.

 

[Behold]

Jesus said that many will try to enter into Him through the narrow gate..

That's another terrible teaching.. Episkopos

Let me show you how to understand WHO is the GATE, and why its NARROW.

Jesus is the "narrow Gate" as He is the only "WAY" "to the Father"..... John 14:6

See that?

That is in opposition to the "Broad WAY".....that is "all paths lead to God"... ."there are many ways to God".. etc, Etc.

So, because Jesus, as compared to the world's idea of "how to go to heaven" is "I AM THE WAY">. then this is very Narrow, as compared to the BROAD Way, that "leads to destruction" or, in other words, ... Religion and self righteousness (Broad way)= leads you to Hell, but Jesus is THE WAY to the Father, and He is the (narrow Gate) the ONLY WAY...... John 14:6

"i am THE WAY".

single.
narrow
gate.

 

[Behold]

. Those who justify themselves based on their beliefs.

You again, have it exactly backwards.

See, the majority of people here, are ETERNALLY Justified by Jesus's Sacrifice, as He is the "only Way to the Father".
They dont argue against "Justification by faith", as you do., and as all who oppose Grace, will always continue to do.

Whereas you, self justify by your unusual doctrine.

See, Episkopos, you will never be able to write a Thread that says....>"Jesus who saved me, keeps me saved, and not my self effort", and you actually believe it.

Your's is the gospel of works and self effort., and that is in opposition to the finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross who is solely responsible for providing the only reason God will accept a sinner and give them "The Gift of Salvation".

 

[MatthewG]

I said "many will try entering into holiness but will be unable" And that's beside the many who don't even try.

Jesus said that many will try to enter into Him through the narrow gate...and be unable. Many modern believers are such by going in by another way. Many false teachers have arisen...back door ministries...fitting through windows ministries...all very popular because avoiding the narrow way will always appeal to the carnally religious.

Holiness is too hard a place to dwell for we humans. It takes time and patience to become accustomed to a fully DEAD self-life....depending on God for our next breath. This state is basically unknown in the rich West.

If very few enter the kingdom realm even in poor countries...where does that leave us?

Will we humble ourselves? No. We prefer hubris to humility. We prefer our own freedom to being a bond-slave of Christ.

Suffering for christ and being set apart for God is not easy.

It comes at a cost of self denial of the flesh.

 

[MatthewG]

And you can thank the heretic who taught you that deception.

So, let me ask you MatthewG.

John 3:36 says that God's wrath, in the present tense, is on the Christ Rejector.
They are damned and waiting for the resolution of that after they die.

So, when one of those dies in the next 10 mins....... WHERE does their never born again, unredeemed "you are of your Father the Devil"..= spirit go?

Do you think it goes to Troy?

Utah?

Atlantis?

Jupiter?

HEAVEN?

Not quite.

Just cause I believe that Jesus christ overcame hell doesnt give anyone the right to judge me, for having faith that Jesus has already won.

Thats stupid.

Darkness very much exist,

And faithless outside the kingdom is possible… its all found in the Revelation,

But what one believes about eschatology is whst frames what is right or wrong in their own mind.

 

[Behold]

Just cause I believe that Jesus christ overcame hell doesnt give anyone the right to judge me,

Noone is judging you.

We are only addressing your theology.

 

[MatthewG]

Noone is judging you.

We are only addressing your theology.

Oh.

Who cares about my beliefs?

 

[Behold]

Oh.

Who cares about my beliefs?

We respond to them, when you post them on a Forum, like this one.

Also,

Revelation 20:11-13 has not happened yet.

 

[MatthewG]

We respond to them, when you post them on a Forum, like this one.

Also,

Revelation 20:11-13 has not happened yet.

Cool.
Why do people tend to over react though?

They act like they are in court sentencing someone sometimes…

Quarreling is a sin is it? Arguments for arguments sake?

 

[Behold]

Cool.
Why do people tend to over react though?

They act like they are in court sentencing someone sometimes…

Quarreling is a sin is it? Arguments for arguments sake?

Its ok to be angry, but leave it before you go to bed.
It's not ok to hate.

Also,

Doctrine is what divides us., and when you have a lot of differing doctrines being taught on a forum then this leads to chaos, that is the animosity.

"can any 2 walk together, unless they be agreed" ??

"can any 50 on a forum, get long, """

= No., not for long, unless there is a singular doctrinal consensus enforced.

Most "christian" forums, unless they are just dripping with hyper-calvinistic Mods, allow some flexibility regarding differing doctrinal points of view all standing up to be counted, however that freedom constantly brings in the constant disagreements.

 

[MatthewG]

Cool, and after you share what you believe what is there to do?

Love the person?

This wasnt about anger or hatered.

Do you hate or are angry with someone who doesnt believe like you?

For me personally I do not care if someone believes me or agrees with you; but sometimes i desire to challenge and see how people will respond to the questions I ask but they dont have to…

Im not mad or angry about what people tend to say or do.

What does make me rightlfully angry is when people mock God and think its a laughing matter; but to turn the other cheek and let God deal with them is a denial of myself - having judgement on them as though they are not part of the body of Christ…

Thats stupid… no one knows the heart; sure you can read fruit but even Jesus loved the murderers putting on the cross saying “forgive them father they dont know what they do”

 

[Behold]

Cool, and after you share what you believe what is there to do?

Wait., and sometimes, duck.

Most of the time, i just respond to a question that comes back.

Love the person?

Well, Paul teaches that we are to try to get along with everyone, as much as we can, but there is a line.

Interestingly enough... Jesus didn't got along with everyone.

Sometimes The God Man responded with a whip, and sometimes He responded with searing words.

He once stated that Judas "is a devil", and He said something similar to Peter, on one occasion.

This wasnt about anger or hatered.

Its interesting how you can hear a person's "tone" while you are reading their words, yet you dont see them.

Do you hate or are angry with someone who doesnt believe like you?

The Holy Spirit is offended when a person is allowed to teach anti-Cross doctrine.

"Calvinism" for example, or a Lot of JW theology is very insulting to the Cross.

A person who is filled with the Spirit, is going to become very agitated when someone insults the Cross or the Grace of God.
On the other hand, A person who is chained to a denomination or some Cult commentary, is going to become agitated when you dont agree with what their denomination or commentary taught them to think and teach.

Also, there are different types of anointing given to people whom God calls into the Ministry.

"many are called but few are chosen".

This verse isn't teaching that God calls many to the Cross but only chooses the elect.

Its teaching that The Cross of Christ, is always calling sinners to come home to God, and of these who do come and are born again, God will chose some of them for the Ministry. So as compared to the total, "few" is the understanding regarding the "chosen" for the Ministry.

A Pastor has a "here is a hug for you", type of Fatherly "warm and fuzzy", anointing, as He's the "welcoming".. Church Daddy.
An evangelist, and that is me, is totally unlike that, regarding anointing.
An evangelist is sent to tear down the Devil's work. We are sent to kick down the walls and make deceivers feel the heat.
We are sent in to make the CROSS SHINE VERY BRIGHTLY so that it pushes back the darkness that is all around.

So, the anointing that is given as the Call of God, is different regarding the different offices.

An Evangelist.... We are sent into the dark ugly situations to blow them up with LIGHT< and reset the foundation with the CROSS.
The anointing that is on an evangelist, makes them very energized and confrontational.

For me personally I do not care if someone believes me or agrees with you; but sometimes i desire to challenge and see how people will respond to the questions I ask but they dont have to…

Well, if you throw a doctrinal curve ball, people are going to swing at you.

Im not mad or angry about what people tend to say or do.

Heretics destroy your faith, and get you caught up in cult theology. Hebrews 13:9
This is the bane of christian forums, especially regarding a new believer who comes to one, not understanding what is waiting for them.

What doesnt make me rightlfully angry is when people mock God and think its a laughing matter; but to turn the other cheek and let God deal with them is a denial of myself - having judgement on them as though they are not part of the body of Christ…

Theology is a curse and a life destroying situation, .......can be so...when its wrong.

Truth is not variable.
Its black and white.

Thats stupid… no one knows the heart; sure you can read fruit but even Jesus loved the murderers putting on the cross saying “forgive them father they dont know what they do”

Christians are to love the Brethren, and do good to those who use use us on purpose...., but that is not the same as Tolerating everything and everyone.

In the USA, the " cultural change agents" have perverted the morals of millions, under the guise of..."rights".
They have Mental Health Professionals who are probably, in many cases, complete sexual perverts, who are encouraging 8 yrs old into "chemical castration".
Its so DEMONIC.
As believers we are called to honor "what is right" far above what someone redefines as a civil right, so that sex perverts can "feel good about themselves and have PRIDE as they continue a Lifestyle that God both flooded and burned in Genesis, and you can go to the area of Sodom & Gomorrah, today.... and see the black ashes in the Rock.
Really.
If you come to Israel, ask a tour guide to take you there, or if im there, i can take you there.

God's patience that has continued during the "time of the Gentiles', is about to end, and hell on earth in the Grt Trib is going to be UNimaginable, as God comes down again, and this time, not a a Lamb.

 

[MatthewG]

Cool, @Behold, thank you for a break down of everything said.