Universalism is a dangerous doctrine

[MatthewG]

Link Directive - All considerable information for the benefit of skeptics, believers, or unbelievers. Keep growing and maturing, look at the scriptures and seek truth, and may the spirit guide.

• #2 <- The high priest
• #3 <- All Sin Paid (past, present, future)
• #4 <- Law is good - brings us to christ
• #5 <- Let go and Let God Be - allow others to be - The greatest gift
• #6 <- How Christ makes one right with God
• #7 <- The Choice
• #8 for your consideration -> Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?
• #9 for your consideration -> God tested Abraham - Abram of UR - To sacrifice his Son
• #10 for your consideration -> Romans Road (Readings)
• #11 for your consideration -> Universalism is a dangerous doctrine
• #12 for your consideration -> Different Bible Studies, and Topics (videos)
• #13 For your consideration. -> The End of Material Religion
• # 14 For your consideration. -> A FEW QUICK COMMENTS ON FULFILLMENT ESCHATOLOGY

Universalism is a dangerous doctrine.

All the focus is on - Jesus saving everyone at the end. Doesn't matter what kind of life a person lived. Doesn't matter if they worshiped idols, or anything like that. Doesn't matter if they ever believed there was a God that was mighty than them. Jesus is just gonna save everyone in the end. Now, while I believe in Universal salvation (Jesus saved everyone since his victory - from Satan, his angels, death, hades, the wrath of God that came on Jerusalem, and of course sin has been paid for (it was paid for already) There is no such thing as "All way lead to heaven" which is basically what universalism is.There is only one way to heaven, that is through Christ Jesus. He is the truth, the way, the life and no one gets to the Father except through Him.


While I do believe the Lake of fire still exist it comes from God, and John the beloved - states there are people on the outside of the heavenly CITY. The city gates never close but the damage is done after this life of resurrection, without Christ. There is only the resurrection of condemnation - with a spiritual body not equipped to dwell in the light - they live outside of the Kingdom. This is good to at least know, that God doesn't destroy them because he desires none to perish - however he does get rid of everything of the prior age mentioned in the second note of (salvation).

The only way to receive deliverance is to come to Christ and die, be buried, and raise with Him being born again in newness of life. So everyone is saved from - Jesus saved everyone since his victory - from Satan, his angels, death, hades, the wrath of God that came on Jerusalem, and Sin has been paid for. Salvation to be delivered from darkness to light, and to be saved to (notice the difference) (From - To) - the Kingdom of God is to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ, and the one whom he had sent which is eternal life, and to believe on them.

There is no "all ways lead to heaven" which is Universalism which says - all are going straight into the Kingdom of God.

I do believe people will come to know Christ in the afterlife but the damage they did to themselves is permanent, and coming through the lake of fire - perhaps it gets rid of all the darkness and what little is left of them remains compared to those who choose to have faith and build spiritual treasures in heaven, following Christ. Those in the darkness, have to make the choice to come and walk towards God going through "the fire and flames" - does it burn like normal fire? IDK but it will be tough to deny oneself to get through. Reconciliationism. God is good. He has a purpose but it's not like some think, especially in the realm of "universalism."​

Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

 

[Rockerduck]

Does this apply?

1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:15 - If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

[MatthewG]

Does this apply?

1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:15 - If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Rocker, my first thoughts are, did you read the presentation and what are your thoughts on it? And would like to hear how you would apply those verses, without me saying anything.

 

[Rockerduck]

Rocker, my first thoughts are, did you read the presentation and what are your thoughts on it? And would like to hear how you would apply those verses, without me saying anything.

I agree with most of all you said. I just can't say whether all will get a second chance or not and I won't preach it because it could be true or not. The greatest thing is your salvation through Jesus Christ in this life and not wonder about after. But those two verses came to me on the last paragraph when you said "I do believe people will come to know Christ in the afterlife but the damage they did to themselves is permanent, and coming through the lake of fire ". For the Holy Spirit to give me those two verses, you might be close to right.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing that with me, Rockerduck.

 

[Rockerduck]

Thank you for sharing that with me, Rockerduck.

You are welcome. All in Christ can agree to disagree and still be friends.

 

[MatthewG]

Rocker, today is a new day, and a time to choose to do things in the flesh or in the spirit all over again. Forgiven is yesterday, between any person, and today is a new day full of it's on problems that will come about be it our own self-will of what may do, or may how we respond to others, or whatever the case it. In Christ as you said is the most important. Jesus did everything none us could ever do, and still does everything we can not do while in him. Here today, waiting for a phone call, and hoping to finally get to work, which will get me back into working 60 hour weeks and a lot of time away from home, and also away from here. Dealing with others and the work at hand, will give me some of my body a work and perhaps ill start feeling better as well. God is good my friend, and perhaps those verses you shared, have something to do with those who take their part in the lake of fire.

 

[Rockerduck]

Rocker, today is a new day, and a time to choose to do things in the flesh or in the spirit all over again. Forgiven is yesterday, between any person, and today is a new day full of it's on problems that will come about be it our own self-will of what may do, or may how we respond to others, or whatever the case it. In Christ as you said is the most important. Jesus did everything none us could ever do, and still does everything we can not do while in him. Here today, waiting for a phone call, and hoping to finally get to work, which will get me back into working 60 hour weeks and a lot of time away from home, and also away from here. Dealing with others and the work at hand, will give me some of my body a work and perhaps ill start feeling better as well. God is good my friend, and perhaps those verses you shared, have something to do with those who take their part in the lake of fire.

Good words my friend, Forgiveness is Key to everything, and pray for everyone in your path. Hold no grudges and forgive anyone and everyone who tries to do you harm. Just remember your friends build you up, and your enemies tear you down. Choose your friends wisely.

 

[Jack]

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yep, still there!

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing, Jack. Good to see you still sharing your favorite verses in the bible.

 

[MatthewG]

Good words my friend, Forgiveness is Key to everything, and pray for everyone in your path. Hold no grudges and forgive anyone and everyone who tries to do you harm. Just remember your friends build you up, and your enemies tear you down. Choose your friends wisely.

From what has been learned; to love yourself is to cherish wisdom and understanding. Therefore never put trust in man; but put trust in God. He is good, and has a purpose. Its up to individuals to put Him first; and then the love for others will come after. Amazing that all of the sin of the world has been paid. People are forgiven; its just how one treats others that is also another key to learn as well. Because Jesus has the keys; and he is the way, the truth and the life.

 

[Jack]

Thank you for sharing, Jack. Good to see you still sharing your favorite verses in the bible.

Just pulling 'Christians' from the fire.

Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

 

[MatthewG]

Beautiful, Jack. God be with you.

 

[Jay Ross]

Just pulling 'Christians' from the fire.

Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

What is the context? When will the saving occur. I would suggest to you that the saints do not go down into the Lake of Fire to save anyone. Jude is speaking about saving people with the fear of their respective destinies.

Seems that there is a reading comprehension issue here.

 

[Jack]

What is the context? When will the saving occur. I would suggest to you that the saints do not go down into the Lake of Fire to save anyone. Jude is speaking about saving people with the fear of their respective destinies.

I didn't say Christians, I said 'Christians'.

Seems that there is a reading comprehension issue here.

Possibly

 

[Lizbeth]

What is the context? When will the saving occur. I would suggest to you that the saints do not go down into the Lake of Fire to save anyone. Jude is speaking about saving people with the fear of their respective destinies.

Seems that there is a reading comprehension issue here.

Just butting into this thread. Since the wrath of God abides on the unbelieving already and the bible also says the whole world lies under the wrath of God, so it makes sense that saving a soul means pulling them out of the fire/wrath that they are already in, as well.

 

[ChristisGod]

What is the context? When will the saving occur. I would suggest to you that the saints do not go down into the Lake of Fire to save anyone. Jude is speaking about saving people with the fear of their respective destinies.

Seems that there is a reading comprehension issue here.

Exactly !

 

[ChristisGod]

Just pulling 'Christians' from the fire.

Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

So the opposite is true then- pulling unbelievers out of heaven right ?

 

[Jack]

So the opposite is true then- pulling unbelievers out of heaven right ?

Huh?

 

[Lizbeth]

From what has been learned; to love yourself is to cherish wisdom and understanding. Therefore never put trust in man; but put trust in God. He is good, and has a purpose. Its up to individuals to put Him first; and then the love for others will come after. Amazing that all of the sin of the world has been paid. People are forgiven; its just how one treats others that is also another key to learn as well. Because Jesus has the keys; and he is the way, the truth and the life.

Jhn 6:47-65


Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life.
Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


1Co 10:16-21

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?

But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.



Jesus said at the last supper that the cup he was giving them was the cup of the new covenant….one has to drink of it to partake of the sacrifice and new covenant which is in his blood. Just as the Israelites ate of their temple sacrifices in order to have it applied to them. Otherwise the sacrifice of the Lamb of God is not applied to those who don’t drink and eat of the altar of His sacrifice. We eat and drink his body and blood in two ways, one is when we ingest/receive Christ (His Spirit) through faith when we eat/receive/accept the washing of the water of His word, ie, the gospel, and the other is when we refresh His sacrifice to us so to speak through partaking of communion. (And that is by proxy, not by transubstantiation, as the Lord was gracious to give me understanding of one time.) There is forgiveness and the gift of eternal life only through Jesus, and one has to consent to the new covenant in order to be a partaker of it. In Israel's day a young maid had to give her consent to the betrothal and upcoming marriage, and drink the cup of the betrothal, otherwise it was not in effect. Jesus doesnt' force His covenant on the unwilling. It is "whosoever will". And it is written that though the number of the Israelites be as the sand of the sea ONLY A REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.