Universalism is a dangerous doctrine

[Eternally Grateful]

In your view the bible was written by heretics. Anybody can grab a verse that he/she thinks justifies him/her, and then judge others based on that extreme position.
The bible is not meant for private interpretation. You assume that some verses negate other ones...the ones you like.

Jesus would also been seen as a heretic by you.

You can only go in circles with that way of seeing things. Will the meek inherit the Earth? Did Jesus come to condemn the world...as you want to do?

Your reading is very superficial. A new believer has your kind of lopsided view. Have you never been instructed? Are you a new believer?

Some of the problem is with the translation...it is dogmatic...not showing the depth of the statement.

Those who believe INTO (eis) Jesus do the works of heaven...miraculous things that Jesus did. The above statement is from a holiness perspective. How many walk as Jesus walked...in His miraculous power? Do you? Or do you want Jesus to start a religion based on religious beliefs?

Look at the end of Jesus' statement...

John 3:21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

At the holiness level of walk, the works come from heaven. Miraculous works. Modern Pharisees read the above verse ...that his BELIEFS might be made manifest (by virtue signalling and pontificating) ...that they are wrought in a religious mind.

Jesus doesn't say that those who fail to enter into Him go to hell. That idea comes from people....indoctrinated religious people. Jesus came to save the world...not condemn the world. But God is holy. If we fail holiness, we can still be saved...as by fire. Read the bible...not just interpret a certain verse the way that negates half of the verses.


Sure. But the people that push that on others don't realize they condemn themselves by pronouncing a holy judgment based on a high standard...impossible for men to do... when they themselves are not even walking in righteousness.

The Pharisees did the same thing as you do with the law...condemning all who didn't do as much as they thought they were doing.

Judge not lest you be judged.

Instead of styling yourself as some kind of teacher...ask questions. A new believer needs instruction in righteousness...as you most obviously do.

Again

practice what you preach.

about everything you said here. You do yourself.

He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already.

It means what it says. To say it can in any shape or fashion mean somethign else is to make the word null and void.

The rest of the verses are true. He who believes is born again, they end up doing the work,

those who do not believe do not do works because they have not overcome the world. they may fake the world into believing they are doing good. But that is all it is.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The bible is not meant to judge others by. The law of God was meant for each person to take to heart...or not. The Pharisees broke the law at a greater intensity than even the blatant sinners. How so? They read the law and looked at others...judging them...rather than take the law to heart for themselves and repent.

Even LESS so is grace meant to judge others by. God is merciful to us...and we are to pass on that mercy to others. God judges...not us. There is no escaping a harsh judgment for those who condemn others for not doing as they do. A little wisdom is required here...to fear the Lord yourself!

We are to see the bible as something that WE are meant to take to heart, not judge others by.

Jesus said that sinners and prostitutes get into the kingdom faster than those who use their own religious understanding AGAINST others.

A lot of judges...yes believers...who judge illegally....will suffer the greatest judgment.

Will these learn to love, to have mercy? No, they will judge themselves into the judgment of God...thinking they are more righteous than the righteous. Just like the Pharisees did.

Stay tuned...

What of universalists...going too far the other way? Well both extremes negate the truth with their viewpoints. In both cases holiness is not satisfied. However, the universalist can still love others. So that heresy is better in regard to judgment from God.

Many will fail holiness. Many are called few are chosen.

without the shedding of blood, there is no remission

the law proved to the world that no one kept the law. because if anyone did. then the high priest would not need to go year after year to make atonement for the whole nation.. who never kept the law

sadly, Like the pharisees, many people, yourself included, have not learned the fact that you are lost. with no hope. and apart from the blood of Christ. they/you are dead where you stand.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Imagine a man who collects the garbage in front of your house (or apartment). He works hard at a very odious job. What if he looks down on all the rich people as he drives by...judging them for all the waste...and justifying himself by his hard work. Is that the right thing to do?

OR..what if that same man was thankful he had a job. He waves to little children as he happily goes about his business?

Which one is doing righteousness? Which one is behaving in a way that upholds Jesus' teaching? Does God love a humble and cheerful giver...or not? Or does God love a critical judge?

Dogmatic believers need not respond...just think on it.

apart from Blood. Both men are lost. and not righteous..

 

[Lizbeth]

Imagine a man who collects the garbage in front of your house (or apartment). He works hard at a very odious job. What if he looks down on all the rich people as he drives by...judging them for all the waste...and justifying himself by his hard work. Is that the right thing to do?

OR..what if that same man was thankful he had a job. He waves to little children as he happily goes about his business?

Which one is doing righteousness? Which one is behaving in a way that upholds Jesus' teaching? Does God love a humble and cheerful giver...or not? Or does God love a critical judge?

Dogmatic believers need not respond...just think on it.

You are conflating issues and making incorrect assumptions about we who believe.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OH the irony. Judgment day is going to be terrifying...but interesting. It's like they say....don't be interesting to a doctor!

For your religious scheme to work we would have to be judged by our beliefs rather than our works.

Can you say an eternal "oops!"

2 Timothy 1:7

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Romans 8:15

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

You do not teach the God of the bible. You teach fearmongering. Your no different than the Jews who crucified Christ. who apposed them and their lawless attitude of unbelief also.

Judgment day (great white throne) will be where death and Hades are delivered for judgment and found wanting. why? Because they did not do enough works? Or because they did not believe. they did not receive the remission of sin paid for in Christs own blood

At the bema seat. all believers will have their works judged, and receive reward due their works (gold silver precious stone wood hay straw) but even those who had their works burned are still saved, even as through fire.

the power to overcome the world is

• 1 John 5:4-5
  For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5
  Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
  

It is our faith, not what we do. that overcomes the world. Because it is through faith that we do anything..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are conflating issues and making incorrect assumptions about we who believe.

he needs to convince himself of his own faulty belief system.

 

[Episkopos]

That's and easy answer. The man that is born again from above filled with the Holy Spirit, will honor his work and judge no man. The man that is spiritual walks by Faith and Spirit. Its the Holy Spirit that reveal's the truth to us who walk by Faith.

"Dogmatic believers need not respond...just think on it".

You are judging with this statement. Be at peace in the Lord,

Philippians 4:6-8 - Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

You may be missing my point. The one who judges is NOT doing as God wants. Like the judgmental garbage collector. It's amazing that people can't see themselves.

The one who is thankful and cheerful is doing a MINIMUM standard. Sure believers should be such...but not only believers are such. In some cases it is the non-believer who DOES as God wants and the believer who goes contrary to the will of God.

Which one...Jesus asks...DOES the will of the Father? The son who says I will, but doesn't? Or the one that says I won't but then does?

It is those who do the WILL of the Father that are justified.

No one will be judged based on their beliefs...but rather against their beliefs. As we judge so we will be judged.

VERY few modern believers have any idea about this...they assume that God is looking for accuracy of beliefs rather than doing good works.

God will judge everyone based on their deeds (works) NOT their beliefs.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You may be missing my point. The one who judges is NOT doing as God wants. Like the judgmental garbage collector. It's amazing that people can't see themselves.

The one who is thankful and cheerful is doing a MINIMUM standard. Sure believers should be such...but not only believers are such. In some cases it is the non-believer who DOES as God wants and the believer who goes contrary to the will of God.

Which one...Jesus asks...DOES the will of the Father? The son who says I will, but doesn't? Or the one that says I won't but then does?

It is those who do the WILL of the Father that are justified.

No one will be judged based on their beliefs...but rather against their beliefs. As we judge so we will be judged.

VERY few modern believers have any idea about this...they assume that God is looking for accuracy of beliefs rather than doing good works.

God will judge everyone based on their deeds (works) NOT their beliefs.

so what happens when you yourself judge people?

 

[ChristisGod]

do what?

it was an exaggeration to make a point. We know thats not true just like the ones in hell getting out in the end. I reversed the idea to make a point.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

it was an exaggeration to make a point. We know thats not true just like the ones in hell getting out in the end. I reversed the idea to make a point.

I see.

Yeah, No one gets out of hell.. There chance of being saved has passed them by..

 

[ChristisGod]

I see.

Yeah, No one gets out of hell.. There chance of being saved has passed them by..

Exactly just like no one gets removed from heaven

 

[Behold]

I do believe people will come to know Christ in the afterlife​

People who died today, having never been born again, are in Hell., as their SPIRIT is not in the Grave, and it certainly didn't go to Heaven where JESUS is located, whom they DIED RejectIng. (Never born again).

A FOOL believes that God is going to let a Christ REJECTOR, never born again, into Heaven where JESUS is ALIVE.

So, here is the thing.. These DAMNED ... John 3:36, who are in Hell, right now.... ALL BELIEVE in Jesus now, and they ALL believe that Hell exists now, and yet, their FAITH is not accepted by God.

You can't be born again in Hell as there is no CROSS of CHRIST offered to you, after you DIE.
So, if you rejected it (HIM) while you were on the Earth, you get no 2nd Chance later.

Right now, Hell is filled with people who want a 2nd Chance, and all of them BELIEVE in JESUS NOW.
Hell is FILLED with BELIEVERS who didnt Believe before they went to HELL for their UNBELIEF. = never born again.
And they are still in Hell and God wont be letting them out of their "lake of fire" 2nd death Eternal Damnation, later on., even tho all of them "believe in Jesus" currently, and forever.

There are no born again, in Hell.
There are no Christ rejectors, never born again, in Heaven.

"Doctrines of Devils" will disagree, and that is what it is....

 

[Rockerduck]

Hello Episkopos,

You said "The one who is thankful and cheerful is doing a MINIMUM standard. Sure believers should be such...but not only believers are such. In some cases it is the non-believer who DOES as God wants and the believer who goes contrary to the will of God."

This is a word salad. Christians do 110% more than minimum standard. In my 35 years as a Born Again person, all Christians do a better job than the unsaved. We work to Glorify our savior in the job He chose for us and thank Jesus daily for the food He puts on our table.

 

[GTW27]

How in this world can post number 24 not be considered heresy and a rejection of the truth , stated here by the Lord!
John 3:18
18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he HATH NOT believed in the name of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

To deny Jesus is to deny God. Jesus said this also....
John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BUT BY ME.

No Jesus = no God = eternal separation from God, choosing rather to believe a LIE and be DAMNED !

Blessings in Christ Jesus! Indeed. Yesterday I watched this thread and here is what I saw. Post number 24 was posted at 7:32 am. When I read it, I saw what you and others saw. The difference being, I saw it as bait. Me being a fisherman, I know bait when I see it. Later in the morning, after 11 am, he came back to see if anyone had taken the bait. It wasn't until after 3 pm that you made a comment about his false words. You see, once the bait is taken, he has his excuse to put down, denigrate, accuse, and eventually name call brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. This is not done out of innocence, but done purposely, to feed and elevate self. Any one who elevates himself, will be humbled under the mighty hand of The Lord.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. It's a web of deception that is being weaved by the deceived. So important to be anchored in the word of God.

Now i have to use that dear sister . what a nice and true ryhme . weaved by the Decieved .

 

[L.A.M.B.]

In your view the bible was written by heretics. Anybody can grab a verse that he/she thinks justifies him/her, and then judge others based on that extreme position.
The bible is not meant for private interpretation. You assume that some verses negate other ones...the ones you like.

Jesus would also been seen as a heretic by you.

You can only go in circles with that way of seeing things. Will the meek inherit the Earth? Did Jesus come to condemn the world...as you want to do?

Your reading is very superficial. A new believer has your kind of lopsided view. Have you never been instructed? Are you a new believer?

Some of the problem is with the translation...it is dogmatic...not showing the depth of the statement.

Those who believe INTO (eis) Jesus do the works of heaven...miraculous things that Jesus did. The above statement is from a holiness perspective. How many walk as Jesus walked...in His miraculous power? Do you? Or do you want Jesus to start a religion based on religious beliefs?

Look at the end of Jesus' statement...

John 3:21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

At the holiness level of walk, the works come from heaven. Miraculous works. Modern Pharisees read the above verse ...that his BELIEFS might be made manifest (by virtue signalling and pontificating) ...that they are wrought in a religious mind.

Jesus doesn't say that those who fail to enter into Him go to hell. That idea comes from people....indoctrinated religious people. Jesus came to save the world...not condemn the world. But God is holy. If we fail holiness, we can still be saved...as by fire. Read the bible...not just interpret a certain verse the way that negates half of the verses.


Sure. But the people that push that on others don't realize they condemn themselves by pronouncing a holy judgment based on a high standard...impossible for men to do... when they themselves are not even walking in righteousness.

The Pharisees did the same thing as you do with the law...condemning all who didn't do as much as they thought they were doing.

Judge not lest you be judged.

Instead of styling yourself as some kind of teacher...ask questions. A new believer needs instruction in righteousness...as you most obviously do.

Balderdash.
You are no longer worth a view nor reply.
Choosing to walk contrary to the word is either an infestation or a choice to remain in darkness!

 

[amigo de christo]

it was an exaggeration to make a point. We know thats not true just like the ones in hell getting out in the end. I reversed the idea to make a point.

exactly my friend .
You see the popes have for years prayed for the dead . Making money off it too .
But we cannot pray one out of hell anymore than we can pray one out of heaven . AINT GONNA HAPPEN .
Yep .

 

[Episkopos]

Balderdash.
You are no longer worth a view nor reply.
Choosing to walk contrary to the word is either an infestation or a choice to remain in darkness!

You are saying that unbelievers read the bible and then say no to it?

Or is it believers who do that?

 

[amigo de christo]

Balderdash.
You are no longer worth a view nor reply.
Choosing to walk contrary to the word is either an infestation or a choice to remain in darkness!

That is what i have been telling epi . IF a man denies the FACT one must believe
THEN WHY ON EARTH AM I GONNA SIT and heed THAT MAN . Epi is reaping wrath unto himself on the day of wrath .
As for the lambs , WE POINTING TO JESUS CHRIST with the constant reminder YE MUST BELEIVE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Balderdash.
You are no longer worth a view nor reply.
Choosing to walk contrary to the word is either an infestation or a choice to remain in darkness!

I just read his response to you . My advice , LEAVE HIM BE , the BLIND cannot see and if they continue to say WE SEE
well ITS ON THEM . HE does nothing but twist things and uses carnal reasonings to explain away THE TRUTH
and make it fit to his own ideals . He is truly on his own .