Using the term "rapture" incorrectly

[CrowCross]

The last day Jesus was in the tomb is what The Last Day means…: “I will raise him up on the last day”.

There is also “the last days” which most people believe means the end of the world but from my point of view the “lasts days” means the end of an age or the end of a system like the old covenant or a “great reset” like humanity is going through right now. We are in the last of days of the way of life that we have lived for a long time.

Raise Him up or them up?

John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

 

[CrowCross]

Don't Respond

(The Last Day) Represents The Time Of The Resurrection And The Final Judgement, The End

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Christ at His coming is the pre-trib rapture.
Then cometh the end is the 7 year tribulation.

 

[IndianaRob]

Raise Him up or them up?

John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

Both and that’s why it’s mentioned twice in John 6. “It” in verse 39 is the tabernacle of David which is the Old Testament way of saying the body of Christ. They died having never seen Christ.

Verse 40 is about those that saw Christ during his earthly ministry. Both groups were raised to eternal life on “the last day”.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Davidpt]

besides the bible proclaiming a pre-trib rapture....one of the reasons I don't believe in a post-trib rapture is because of the way they mock christians who understand the rapture is pre-trib.

Mocking one's view of something should not be allowed, and that some of us are guilty of that very same thing at times, but just because one might do that at times, that hardly proves your point, though. Because I have noted in the past, Pretribbers mocking post tribbers in the sme manner you are complaining about. Which then should equal this.


one of the reasons I don't believe in a post-trib rapture is because of the way they mock christians who understand the rapture is pre-trib.

one of the reasons I don't believe in a pretrib rapture is because of the way they mock christians who understand the rapture is post-trib.

Now what? Only your reason is valid but a post tribbers' reason is not valid?

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ at His coming is the pre-trib rapture.
Then cometh the end is the 7 year tribulation.

I Asked You Not To Respond Because I Was Working On My Post And You Did "Why"?

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ at His coming is the pre-trib rapture.
Then cometh the end is the 7 year tribulation.

Your claim is false, "Christ At His Coming" isn't a pre-trib rapture, nor is "Then Cometh The End" a 7 year tribulation

To be honest, you can't be taken seriously, and would be considered immature as far as eschatology is concerned, perhaps elementary school level

In the light of your response I will refrain from further engagement

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Davy]

besides the bible proclaiming a pre-trib rapture....one of the reasons I don't believe in a post-trib rapture is because of the way they mock christians who understand the rapture is pre-trib.

Who cares what one believes that does NOT listen to Lord Jesus Christ...

Both of the following Scripture examples by Lord Jesus Christ align perfectly with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of the Church to Christ in the near future...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

 

[CrowCross]

Your claim is false, "Christ At His Coming" isn't a pre-trib rapture, nor is "Then Cometh The End" a 7 year tribulation

To be honest, you can't be taken seriously, and would be considered immature as far as eschatology is concerned, perhaps elementary school level

In the light of your response I will refrain from further engagement

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Reading your hateful post..I have to ask you, would you like to meet the real Jesus?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes the resurrection and (catching up/rapture) takes place on (The Last Day) not 3.5 years before it, as dispensationalism falsely teaches

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Is this the last day?
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Or Is this the last day?
Mat24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Or is this the last day?
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[Truth7t7]

Is this the last day?
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

(Yes) the chapter shows (The Last Day) resurrection and second coming taking place, there's only one future time in the second coming and resurrection of "All" John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Or Is this the last day?
Mat24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

(Yes) the chapter shows (The Last Day) resurrection and second coming taking place , there's only one future time in the second coming and resurrection of "All" John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2

Or is this the last day?
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

(Yes) the chapter shows (The Last Day) second coming and final judgement taking place , there's only one future time in the second coming, resurrection, and final judgement of "All" John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2

 

[Douggg]

(Yes) the chapter shows (The Last Day) second coming and final judgement taking place , there's only one future time in the second coming, resurrection, and final judgement of "All" John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2

No, there will be four resurrection events.

1. the resurrection/rapture event before God's wrath begins (1Thessalonians5:9-11)

2. the resurrection of the two witnesses (Revelation 11:11-12)

3. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints (Revelation 20:4)

4. the resurrection of the rest of the dead (Revelation 20:13)

 

[Douggg]

Christ at His coming is the pre-trib rapture.
Then cometh the end is the 7 year tribulation.

The resurrection/rapture event may or may not happen pre-70th week.

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and Ezekiel 39:9 are not all tribulation. A portion of the first half of the 7 years will be a false messianic age of people saying "peace and safety.

Here is the pre-trib resurrection/rapture view. And below it the Any Time resurrection/rapture view, which I believe is correct.

 

[Douggg]

(Yes) the chapter shows (The Last Day) resurrection and second coming taking place, there's only one future time in the second coming and resurrection of "All" John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2

When does the 42 months of Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5, take place in your Amil view ?

When does the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6, Revelation 11:3, take place in your Amil view ?

 

[Truth7t7]

No, there will be four resurrection events.

1. the resurrection/rapture event before God's wrath begins (1Thessalonians5:9-11)

2. the resurrection of the two witnesses (Revelation 11:11-12)

3. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints (Revelation 20:4)

4. the resurrection of the rest of the dead (Revelation 20:13)

I Disagree

There will be "One" future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgment (The End)

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[CrowCross]

The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 and Ezekiel 39:9 are not all tribulation. A portion of the first half of the 7 years will be a false messianic age of people saying "peace and safety.

Thanks for the charts.

The first half of the tribulation starts off with the 1 horseman...How long will that false peace last? The next 3 horsemen don't sound like fun times.

We must remember when they are saying "peace and safety"....sudden distruction comes.

Currently I'm leaning towards Rev 8:6-13 happening around April 13, 2029.

 

[Truth7t7]

When does the 42 months of Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5, take place in your Amil view ?

When does the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6, Revelation 11:3, take place in your Amil view ?

Scripture teaches that armies surrounding a future Jerusalem will be a sign that Daniel's AOD is near Luke 21:20, this AOD will start the future 3.5 year great tribulation in the Antichrist proclaiming to be God-Messiah in Jerusalem 2 Thess 2:3-4

(The Beast) and (The Two Witnesses) will be on this earth in Jerusalem during the same time frame of 3.5 years, the two prophets returned will bring all plagues upon the wicked world so often as they will as the Holy Spirit sealed Church is protected Rev 9:4, Eph 1:13, 4:30 a good description of these plagues can be seen in Rev 16:1-11, its going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

When the prophets returned have finished their work on earth (The Beast) will kill them, their dead bodies will lay in a literal Jerusalem street for 3.5 days as a wicked world watches in celebration because the plagues brought by them tormented the world, after this 3.5 days they will be raised from the dead when God raises them to heaven

After the two prophets are raised to heaven (The Same Hour) the great earthquake takes place as the 2nd woe is fulfilled, the 3rd woe comes even quicker in the 7th Angel/Trump Rev 11:15 in the second coming of the Lord in fire and final judgement Rev 11:18 (The End)

Conclusion: From the time (The Beast) kills the (Two Witnesses) until the time the 7th trump is blown will be a matter of about 4 days

The Beast & The Two Witnesses will be on the earth for the same time frame of 3.5 years as clearly shown, simple, clear, easy to understand, 3.5 days + 1 hour + quickly = Roughly 4 days = (The Last Day) The End

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 11:1-19KJV
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[Douggg]

There will be "One" future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgment (The End)

1Thessalonians5:9-11 indicates that the resurrection/rapture event will take place before God's wrath begins.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[Truth7t7]

1Thessalonians5:9-11 indicates that the resurrection/rapture event will take place before God's wrath begins.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Not one word in the scripture you provided even hints at a pre-trib rapture

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[CrowCross]

Not one word in the scripture you provided even hints at a pre-trib rapture

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

That's a false statement and you know it.

2nd Thes 2:3 speaks of a pretrib rapture.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's a false statement and you know it.

2nd Thes 2:3 speaks of a pretrib rapture.

Show me one place below where 2 thess 2:3 is mentioned by douggg, it isnt

(Quote Douggg post #37)
"1Thessalonians5:9-11 indicates that the resurrection/rapture event will take place before God's wrath begins.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."