Vegetarians Before the Flood

[bbyrd009]

Well, to speculate beyond that would be something one could not apply as much confidence in saying, right?

idk why not, youre already speculating, right?
There is no "Yah killed a sheep and made them coats" after all

 

[Enow]

idk why not, youre already speculating, right?
There is no "Yah killed a sheep and made them coats" after all

Have you ever heard of best judgment based on the evidence?

So there is some way to arrive to a sound conclusion based on scripture.

Obviously, God did not continue to make coats of skins as the family of Adam and Eve grew. Unless you want to believe in the speculation that the children of Adam and Eve were the only ones running around naked. And if you say why not? Then who made your clothes today?

It is not unreasonable to come to a sound conclusion from the scripture that the practice of making coats of skins from animals started by the Lord for how future generations knew how to make coats of skins from animals to cover their own nakedness as times goes on.

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you ever heard of best judgment based on the evidence?

So there is some way to arrive to a sound conclusion based on scripture.

Obviously, God did not continue to make coats of skins as the family of Adam and Eve grew. Unless you want to believe in the speculation that the children of Adam and Eve were the only ones running around naked. And if you say why not? Then who made your clothes today?

It is not unreasonable to come to a sound conclusion from the scripture that the practice of making coats of skins from animals started by the Lord for how future generations knew how to make coats of skins from animals to cover their own nakedness as times goes on.

it is much less unreasonable, wadr, being as how the Bible is a Book about the spiritual, to stop reading so literally and assume that naked and coat have other meanings, but i guess they certainly dont have to for everyone! However, you will be adding to Scripture at anything other than Yah made them a coat of skins, and clothed them, yes? Bc there is no "Yah killed a sheep" nor "Yah tanned some hides," iow the passage is (surely deliberately) kept vague? Many suggest that the coat is the ego, Aspen started that here but i have since read it in other places, but bam go with what you know bro

 

[Enow]

it is much less unreasonable, wadr, being as how the Bible is a Book about the spiritual, to stop reading so literally and assume that naked and coat have other meanings, but i guess they certainly dont have to for everyone! However, you will be adding to Scripture at anything other than Yah made them a coat of skins, and clothed them, yes? Bc there is no "Yah killed a sheep" nor "Yah tanned some hides," iow the passage is (surely deliberately) kept vague? Many suggest that the coat is the ego, Aspen started that here but i have since read it in other places, but bam go with what you know bro

You can always ask Jesus for wisdom, brother. I leave it to Him to help others see the truth in His words as He has to do with me when others minister to me. If we seek the truth, we will find it. Promise from God, yes?

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

James 1:If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[bbyrd009]

You can always ask Jesus for wisdom, brother.

no i cant, bc i pray to Yah and not a pantheon that cannot be evidenced in the Bible, except by the very worst kind of interp

Promise from God, yes?

i could Quote you a few promises from Yah, that you will not understand wadr bc you are not relying on Yah for promises, as you just professed

If we seek the truth, we will find it. Promise from God, yes?

and no, this is not a promise from Yah, at least not that i can find? But i can find all are deceived, and i could Quote that if you like

 

[Enow]

no i cant, bc i pray to Yah and not a pantheon that cannot be evidenced in the Bible, except by the very worst kind of interp

i could Quote you a few promises from Yah, that you will not understand wadr bc you are not relying on Yah for promises, as you just professed

So you do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, is that it?

 

[bbyrd009]

So you do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, is that it?

I said "you are elohim,"
...that they may be one, as We are one
and many other vv clarify the relationship,
Who alone lives in unapproachable light,
Why do you call Me good?
on and on, but being as how you surely hold Jesus worship as an Absolute Truth i am wadr no too much interested in continuing here, and you may worship as many deities as you like as far as i am concerned, honest.
Call it Christianity too if you want, ok with me; its Catholicism, Cult of Sol Invictus, Mithraism, not Christianity, but whatevs.

no, we are not supposed to be worshipping Jesus, as all of the examples of that in Scripture make pretty plain i think, we are even to be doing greater things?

 

[Enow]

I said "you are elohim,"
...that they may be one, as We are one
and many other vv clarify the relationship,

Yeah, but speaking of the future where we, the redeemed will go to, which is where Jesus had come from; the bosom of the Father, thus why Jesus is God, does not really mean we will become God but that we will live with God in Heaven.

Who alone lives in unapproachable light,

I do not know where you got that paraphrased of that verse from but yet Jesus is that light.

Why do you call Me good?

Jesus was lifting the sight of that "law keeper" higher. Since he saw Him as good, hence why? He is God.

on and on, but being as how you surely hold Jesus worship as an Absolute Truth i am wadr no too much interested in continuing here, and you may worship as many deities as you like as far as i am concerned, honest.
Call it Christianity too if you want, ok with me; its Catholicism, Cult of Sol Invictus, Mithraism, not Christianity, but whatevs

Well, as long as you do hit and run postings like this without actually sticking around in the conversation to get into the scripture, you nor I will never learn, right? I mean you claim to have the talents and yet not interested in continuing here, but a passing post in obscurity? How does that not come across as taking your talents and putting it in the ground?

Under your avatar is listed as Christian. So I am asking you why was Jesus crucified for blasphemy? Something He said?

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

Did Jesus had the audacity to make the same claim elsewhere?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Even earlier still;

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Believers say that Jesus never said He was God, but then they overlook the reason why He was crucified because He did say that He was in so many words.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, but speaking of the future where we, the redeemed will go to, which is where Jesus had come from; the bosom of the Father, thus why Jesus is God, does not really mean we will become God but that we will live with God in Heaven.

that is what we are taught, sure, but "after you have literally died" is implied there, right?
we are told that we will "go to heaven" after we have died, if and only if we hold the correct "beliefs" or do the right altar works, and the connection to Apollos and the Elysian Fields is never made clear. Apollos waters, yes. Funny we even have a current idiom for "watering" things too huh

but this obviously goes against much Scripture, and misrepresents heaven to boot, doesnt it?
The kingdom of heaven is within you
I came that you might have life, more abundantly
etc?
plus the satans dialectic, see, you cant hide that wadr

I do not know where you got that paraphrased of that verse from but yet Jesus is that light.

you can assume that if you like, i mean it even sounds good, but i suggest you are making connections working backward from a conclusion, which has been assumed. There is only One Yah, and Yah is Who we are called to worship exclusively, Scripture on request. Bam worship Jesus and ignore the tone of the occurrences in Scripture of humans, Two Greeks, etc, doing that, but wadr your stating that as if you know does not make it so.

You might at least contemplate the connections to that belief system and the Cult of Sol Invictus from which it derives, and you can even google "Mithraism and..." which will autocomplete for "Christianity" since like a billion people have already figured it out. Apparently pretty much everybody starts out with a Jesus as Apollos, basically.

Well, as long as you do hit and run postings like this without actually sticking around in the conversation to get into the scripture, you nor I will never learn, right? I mean you claim to have the talents and yet not interested in continuing here, but a passing post in obscurity? How does that not come across as taking your talents and putting it in the ground?

zing!

sorry, its the satans dialectic, the "this is that and that is this," although that is no excuse
anyway, i doubt you would much like the Scripture i would be Quoting, ok, and everyone else is surely tired of it, which is why i suggested searching the mithraism deal, and decide for yourself. prolly like a billion on the satans/naive dialectic too btw

and, fwiw, you might be more inclined to live chat? sometimes i have to think/not think for a day or so myself

Under your avatar is listed as Christian. So I am asking you why was Jesus crucified for blasphemy? Something He said?

John 18:14 Lexicon: Now Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jews that it was expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people.

this takes a while to assimilate tho i guess

Did Jesus had the audacity to make the same claim elsewhere?

didnt He also plainly delineate the relationship in the passage? look in a sense that might even be correct, when Jesus of Nazareth is understood as "John Doe from Nowhere," and I said "you are elohim" and even greater things will you do and even pick up your cross and follow Me are recognized, the High Priest/Priest relationship is recognized iow, but i dont think Jesus worship is th way to go. although it is popular, yes

Believers say that Jesus never said He was God, but then they overlook the reason why He was crucified because He did say that He was in so many words.

yes, and Yah said "you" are, and if you are truly in the relationship you believe you are in with "Jesus" then why pick up your own cross, and follow? Wouldnt that be blasphemy? pretending to be Yah?

and fwiw i guess many believers use the I am passage to support Jesus' declaring Himself Yah, yes, but imo obviously Jesus was being misunderstood, and did not mean what they heard, but even if He did, that they may be one as we are one

 

[bbyrd009]

so, strangely enough, imo Jesus/Apollos worship (bc ego "immortality") becomes a form of self-worship, a way to elevate the self, which of course we all come basically Standing where it should not be so prolly that is the only approach we will hear?

hey, thanks!

 

[Enow]

that is what we are taught, sure, but "after you have literally died" is implied there, right?
we are told that we will "go to heaven" after we have died, if and only if we hold the correct "beliefs" or do the right altar works, and the connection to Apollos and the Elysian Fields is never made clear. Apollos waters, yes. Funny we even have a current idiom for "watering" things too huh

Actually, every one that believes in Him even former believers that dies are present with the Lord; it is what resurrected body that one will be raised in is the question per what they built on that foundation; as a vessel unto honor to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the pre great tribulation rapture or after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings as the least in the kingdom of heaven; hence the vessels unto dishonor.

but this obviously goes against much Scripture, and misrepresents heaven to boot, doesnt it?
The kingdom of heaven is within you
I came that you might have life, more abundantly
etc?
plus the satans dialectic, see, you cant hide that wadr

Not sure what wadr means but let us consider this verse too, but I shall keep it in context for why He said that.

John 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

So what you referenced to the kingdom for having life is God being in us since we are now members of that kingdom and our spirit shall be received to be present with the Lord apart from the body, and yet we labor for the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin..

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So that means even former believers are called to depart from iniquity since that foundation stands sure along with that seal of adoption.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I hope He is helping you to see why I believe the way that I do for why the least as in the vessel unto dishonor that did not depart from iniquity, are still in His House.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Cutting it off here so the post will not be too long, but God be willing, I shall continue to answer the rest of your post for which I thank the Lord for you for staying in this conversation with me.

 

[Enow]

you can assume that if you like, i mean it even sounds good, but i suggest you are making connections working backward from a conclusion, which has been assumed. There is only One Yah, and Yah is Who we are called to worship exclusively, Scripture on request. Bam worship Jesus and ignore the tone of the occurrences in Scripture of humans, Two Greeks, etc, doing that, but wadr your stating that as if you know does not make it so.

You might at least contemplate the connections to that belief system and the Cult of Sol Invictus from which it derives, and you can even google "Mithraism and..." which will autocomplete for "Christianity" since like a billion people have already figured it out. Apparently pretty much everybody starts out with a Jesus as Apollos, basically.

But isn't everything regarding scripture should be shown by the actual scripture? I mean there are so many Bible versions and they are not all saying the same thing for which I would need to know how you read those verses exactly and what Bible version it was from, yes? I share from the KJV, but I do not know from which you are referencing from which I suspect was paraphrasing the meaning. I have done that on occasions but I cite the reference so readers will know where I got that meaning from even if they are not using my Bible version.

It's kind of like trying to get on the same page in order to know how the other is reading the scripture and applying it too. So if you do not mind, could you please cite the scriptural reference for your quote of "Who alone lives in unapproachable light,"? Thanks in advance.

zing!

sorry, its the satans dialectic, the "this is that and that is this," although that is no excuse
anyway, i doubt you would much like the Scripture i would be Quoting, ok, and everyone else is surely tired of it, which is why i suggested searching the mithraism deal, and decide for yourself. prolly like a billion on the satans/naive dialectic too btw

That zinger applies to you and me, if you noted that I included me as well. Sorry if that provoked you to continue our conversation of which I know it is on the Lord Jesus Christ to make it happen.

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

As for quoting the scriptures, who cares if I do not like it if it is the truth? So feel free to cite the reference and the Bible version you are using so we can both study in the word, relying on the Lord to cause the increase. ​

and, fwiw, you might be more inclined to live chat? sometimes i have to think/not think for a day or so myself

Well, when an answer is not forthcoming, or thinking about an issue with Him, I would think the Lord would lead me to do the same.

John 18:14 Lexicon: Now Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jews that it was expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people.

this takes a while to assimilate tho i guess

How do you know that John 18:14 isn't John reporting how and why the people were incited to crucify Jesus as Caiaphas was behind it? He still had to find a charge to convict Him at His trial and failing that, he finally asked Him if He was God, and he got the answer he wanted to condemn him. Later, when the choice was for the people to decide Barabbas or Jesus, John 18:14 would show who was responsible for having agents of Caiaphas inciting the people to choose Barabbas over Jesus as Caiaphas foresaw the custom coming for this to happen.

John 18:39 But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews? 40 Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

I am not sure why you licked that verse, but I believe the point John was mentioning it earlier was how he was behind this plot for why the people behaved the way that they did, but in no way could he have done this, unless Jesus outrightly answer the question that He was & is God..

didnt He also plainly delineate the relationship in the passage? look in a sense that might even be correct, when Jesus of Nazareth is understood as "John Doe from Nowhere," and I said "you are elohim" and even greater things will you do and even pick up your cross and follow Me are recognized, the High Priest/Priest relationship is recognized iow, but i dont think Jesus worship is th way to go. although it is popular, yes

Still need that scriptural reference for "you are Elohim" to find it in my KJV Bible, brother.

As for "greater things will you do" could very well point to when believers have inherited the first fruits of the resurrection for we know not the glory that awaits us in the Lord. Obviously, no disciple in the Book of Acts had cast any mountain into the sea yet so... probably referring to the glorified resurrected state we shall inherit providing we looked to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race for that prize.

yes, and Yah said "you" are, and if you are truly in the relationship you believe you are in with "Jesus" then why pick up your own cross, and follow? Wouldnt that be blasphemy? pretending to be Yah?

The "pick up your cross and follow Me" can be taken as to "how" we can follow Him;

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.0

As in, I deny myself as able to follow Him as it is not in my will power or religious strength to follow Him. If I could not save myself and had to surrender from doing so to believe in Jesus Christ that I am saved so I can rest in Him, then to continue in His rest and that love, I am to look to Him for the power to follow Him as it is "not I who live but Christ Who lives in me" for how I can trust Him as my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him when He said "Follow Me". If anyone asks you today to "follow me" you are pretty much trusting your welfare to him.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

So Jesus is the author & finisher of our faith to help us run that race to His glory for why the crowns we receive are His crowning achievements in us. That is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we rely on Him for everything in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.

and fwiw i guess many believers use the I am passage to support Jesus' declaring Himself Yah, yes, but imo obviously Jesus was being misunderstood, and did not mean what they heard, but even if He did, that they may be one as we are one

The Jews grew up with scripture to know what came across as blasphemy or not. When the O.T. says that there is no one beside me and yet Jesus said He is at the right hand of God the Father, they saw it as blasphemy but in reality, Jesus was declaring His deity as one with the Father.

 

[Enow]

so, strangely enough, imo Jesus/Apollos worship (bc ego "immortality") becomes a form of self-worship, a way to elevate the self, which of course we all come basically Standing where it should not be so prolly that is the only approach we will hear?

hey, thanks!

I still say there is a misreading of scripture for why you may be in error in how you are applying what I say to mean.

Acts 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Obviously Paul nor Barnabas believed they were to be worshipped.

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

But Paul believes Jesus Christ is to be glorified and thus worshiped.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

We can see the apostle John falling at His feet for the event from which he had written the Book of Revelations.

Revelations 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Something to reflect upon.

 

[Truther]

I don't think all life began to die after the original sin, only Adam and Eve and their descendants(humans).

There has been an ecosystem and death to everything else from the beginning of creation.

Only Adam and Even were to eat of the Tree of Life and live.

 

[bbyrd009]

I still say there is a misreading of scripture for why you may be in error in how you are applying what I say to mean.

bam go with what you know, i understand

 

[bbyrd009]

Still need that scriptural reference for "you are Elohim"

copy/search brings it up right away,
psalms 82:6

whoever does the will of God, they are the sons of God
others

 

[Enow]

I don't think all life began to die after the original sin, only Adam and Eve and their descendants(humans).

There has been an ecosystem and death to everything else from the beginning of creation.

Only Adam and Even were to eat of the Tree of Life and live.

They didn't need coats of skins until they had sinned. I believe death came into the world because of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:1 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I read that even creature are awaiting for the manifestations of the sons of God below as if one day, they shall be free from the sting of death as well as the corruption that is in nature because of sin ( the 2nd law of thermodynamics where order/system is breaking down. )

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Enow]

bam go with what you know, i understand

It would be nice if you shared the actual scripture like copying and pasting from Bible Gateway site to your post here for me to follow how it is you believe in what you say from a specific Bible version, but I reckon it is God's will at this time for our conversation to end. Thanks for sharing anyway.

 

[Truther]

They didn't need coats of skins until they had sinned. I believe death came into the world because of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:1 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I read that even creature are awaiting for the manifestations of the sons of God below as if one day, they shall be free from the sting of death as well as the corruption that is in nature because of sin ( the 2nd law of thermodynamics where order/system is breaking down. )

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Death started in mankind by forbidding them from the Tree of Life.
The whales were eating krill since day one.
The dinosaur was stomping on small creatures from day one.
Man sinned causing only man to die.

 

[Enoch111]

There has been an ecosystem and death to everything else from the beginning of creation.

This is incorrect and has no basis in Scripture. Death, decay, corruption, etc. are all results of sin entering into the world. And before Adam and Eve sinned, God pronounced His entire creation to be "very good" (perfect).

God made all His creatures herbivores so that they would not be attacking each other for food. All that changed when a curse came upon creation. That curse will be removed eventually.

ROMANS 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature [CREATION] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature [CREATION] was made subject to vanity*, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature [CREATION] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

*Vanity = futility, vanity, emptiness, unreality, purposelessness, ineffectiveness, instability, frailty; false religion.

This also indicates that the physical Law of Entropy went into effect when God cursed creation. Entropy is a process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder. We are seeing this in the moral, spiritual, and political spheres at this time.