Vegetarians Before the Flood

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Looks like people are making a mountain out of a molehill. While the Hebrew is singular for skin, idiomatically it would be skins for two individuals, meant to cover their nakedness. Adam and Eve had human skins, just like the rest of us. People have also used animals skins for ages to make clothing.
Not when there is nothing to limit that translation from being plural. It still all goes to how it is applied in the verse in the message of the context given.
Why play word games by pretending it's plural? Why not use the word skin in the singular since that's what the Hebrew says? Why the compulsion to alter it? Why assume we know it's plural to begin with and then justify it by saying it has to mean "skins" because we (almost omniscient like God maybe?) know what it means no matter what the words actually are?

Let's check out the idiom question. If that is how Hebrew would do it, why is the plural form used in other passages? Three examples should be enough to tell us Hebrew uses the plural form when it means the plural:

Gen 27:16 And she put the skins of the kids of the goats upon his hands, and upon the smooth of his neck:

Exo 35:23 And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.


Lev 16:27 And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.

Why read the Bible if we think know everything before reading it? Never mind what it actually says -- we "know" what it means and what it should say. Ha, we "know" God killed animals and made clothes out of their "skins." We "know" this, so it's got to be plural. Moses must have gotten it wrong, but we know better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
That is why the lost books and that Book of Jasher are not considered scripture at all, but a fraud.

No one ever said it was scripture. It is a great history book. The works of Josephus are not Scripture, but they give a great amount of history not mentioned in the Bible. I enjoy reading both these works.

And after rejecting the history of Jasher, and Scriptural references to the book, offer criticism presented by that nutcase Herbert W Armstrong, Church of God cult!! Duh!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Thanks for sharing.

Although some scholars mock the Bible for the historical accounts in it, like one of the cities Abram had lived in did not exists until they discovered it later on. ( Forgot which one that was Ur or Haran. Not sure )

Since Jesus confirmed scripture as testifying of Him in the O.T., you may find it is more than just a spiritual book, and maybe one day you will know that the global flood did indeed happen since Jesus warned believers of what is to come by referencing the global flood and Sodom & Gomorrah to be motivated to be ready like in Luke 17th chapter. Peter talked at length in 2 Peter 3rd chapter for believers to endure to the end to escape the fire coming on the earth, and he even referenced the global flood as a historical event for why believers should be ready for a real future calamity.

Thanks again for sharing, brother.
well, i would suggest a more pertinent interp for the flood too, and...basically all of that stuff most believers take literally. But again i think they work both ways, in a sense anyway, so meh. If you fear a future calamity then bazinga, there it is, huh?
But of course the earth will eventually fall into the sun i guess, sure
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Why play word games by pretending it's plural? Why not use the word skin in the singular since that's what the Hebrew says? Why the compulsion to alter it? Why assume we know it's plural to begin with and then justify it by saying it has to mean "skins" because we (almost omniscient like God maybe?) know what it means no matter what the words actually are?

Let's check out the idiom question. If that is how Hebrew would do it, why is the plural form used in other passages? Three examples should be enough to tell us Hebrew uses the plural form when it means the plural:

Gen 27:16 And she put the skins of the kids of the goats upon his hands, and upon the smooth of his neck:

Exo 35:23 And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.


Lev 16:27 And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.

Why read the Bible if we think know everything before reading it? Never mind what it actually says -- we "know" what it means and what it should say. Ha, we "know" God killed animals and made clothes out of their "skins." We "know" this, so it's got to be plural. Moses must have gotten it wrong, but we know better.
word
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why play word games by pretending it's plural? Why not use the word skin in the singular since that's what the Hebrew says? Why the compulsion to alter it? Why assume we know it's plural to begin with and then justify it by saying it has to mean "skins" because we (almost omniscient like God maybe?) know what it means no matter what the words actually are?

Let's check out the idiom question. If that is how Hebrew would do it, why is the plural form used in other passages? Three examples should be enough to tell us Hebrew uses the plural form when it means the plural:

Gen 27:16 And she put the skins of the kids of the goats upon his hands, and upon the smooth of his neck:

Exo 35:23 And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.


Lev 16:27 And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.

Why read the Bible if we think know everything before reading it? Never mind what it actually says -- we "know" what it means and what it should say. Ha, we "know" God killed animals and made clothes out of their "skins." We "know" this, so it's got to be plural. Moses must have gotten it wrong, but we know better.

I'll leave you to the Lord for seeing that truth in His words. Thanks for sharing.
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No one ever said it was scripture. It is a great history book. The works of Josephus are not Scripture, but they give a great amount of history not mentioned in the Bible. I enjoy reading both these works.

And after rejecting the history of Jasher, and Scriptural references to the book, offer criticism presented by that nutcase Herbert W Armstrong, Church of God cult!! Duh!!

If it is not scripture, it is unreliable. And any one can do the research themselves by comparing the list of errors to see if that is so in the Book of Jasher.

No lie can be of the truth. You cannot use a reference from Jasher for confirmation of what you believe to be true in spite of not mentioned in scripture and scripture stated why it cannot be when God said the diet for man and living things was herb before the flood and after the flood was why the dread of man was on every living thing now because they will serve as meat for man and not just the herbs.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
well i agree that the "flood" had to do with our "diet," only there are spiritual analogs for both of those, which can even be defined using Scripture
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
I'll leave you to the Lord for seeing that truth in His words. Thanks for sharing.
lol

the same root word is used for "body" even once or twice, but if the question is whether Yah slew animals to make A&Es coats imo the answer is obvious; it is however you interpret it.
"You dont read the Bible, the Bible reads you"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Giuliano

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well i agree that the "flood" had to do with our "diet," only there are spiritual analogs for both of those, which can even be defined using Scripture

Feel free to share, brother, in making your points known by scripture, even if by one example.
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
wasnt the real book of Jasher lost?

It seems so, for why someone would make a fraudulent Book of Jasher originating from the area of Alexandria where poetic licensing existed.

Here is a research at this site explaining that the Book of Jasher was from an attempt by Jewish authorities to thwart Christians to use the O.T. about Jesus Christ.

Jasher

About a third way down the web page right after the Son of the Bow, you will find this quote.

"The reason we have to say that it is not in the Book of Jasher as we have it today is because, unlike the Old Testament books, we have no access to any manuscript of Jasher dating before 100 AD. Why that date? Because the book we have is written in modern, square Hebrew characters without the vowel points. The earliest manuscripts from this time are also missing the vowel points. This points directly to Rabbi Akiba and his group's efforts to promote rabbinical leadership over Scripture. His group, referred to as the Council of Jamnia, wanted to produce a foundation copy of the Scriptures as the original had been burned by the Romans when Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in 70AD. They made a number of changes in the Scriptures (which have come down to us as the Masoretic Text), and which are discussed in our article on the Alexandrian Septuagint. The Book of Jasher may have also suffered the same indignities as it bears the two hallmarks of the Council of Jamnia: the modern square Hebrew characters and the lack of vowel points. The vowel points were not inserted until eight hundred years later, and then on the basis of oral tradition. A glance at the translators introduction to the standard 19th century version of the Book of Jasher, which is commonly used today, stated that the text was in square modern characters with vowel points missing. "

You will find this quote if you scroll halfway down the web page in that long rectangular box explaining certain evidence for why Jasher is a fraud.

"In what appears to have been a double pronged effort to deny the new Christians use of the Jewish Scriptures to support Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, as well as to boost rabbinical authority over Scriptural authority, the men involved in what has come to be known as the Council of Jamnia, in 100 AD, made a number of changes to the ancient Scriptures. We are aware of these changes, and what they were, through two sources: the earliest of the Dead Sea Scrolls as well as something called the Alexandrian Septuagint, which was translated from paleo-Hebrew to classical Greek in 280 BC. "

Since no lie can be of the truth, the Book of Jasher cannot be considered nor relied upon as scripture, especially when running against the accepted scripture in the 66 Books of the Bible. We have to believe that the Book of Jasher is lost for now as you say.
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
lol

the same root word is used for "body" even once or twice, but if the question is whether Yah slew animals to make A&Es coats imo the answer is obvious; it is however you interpret it.
"You dont read the Bible, the Bible reads you"

I understand your point in being literal and exclusive of what is not written, but it goes to how the following generations would get their coats of skins from. It is not an unsound reason to believe otherwise and such a derived conclusion would not go against scripture.
 

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
both Jesus and Paul referred to many extra-Biblical works, so i srsly doubt you could support that wadr

Care to give some scriptural references?

If you are referring to the Book of Enoch, do note that it is not by the same reference as citing the "Book of Enoch" as the "Book of Jasher" has been cited in scripture.

Jude 1:14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Just as Moses cited people's sayings from the past by the Holy Spirit, I suspect Enoch was being cited in like manner.

What I do declare that because it originated from the area of Alexandria where poetic licensing was known to exists, I'd say a different group or a singular author plagiarized a few verses from the accepted scripture to pass off their forgery. Those few plagiarized verses hardly make up for the bad writing style in that book, if you note.

But if you are referring to other extra-Biblical works as referred to by Jesus & Paul, you will need to share, brother.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Feel free to share, brother, in making your points known by scripture, even if by one example.
well, what springs to mind is tithing where one is "fed," and there are similar analagies for flood i guess, plus i think it has been pretty well established that there was no world-wide flood, although flood myths saturate human consciousness? Which imo even plays into the concept, in a way that is kind of hard to get maybe...its easy to imagine we are all on some eternal journey, and in a sense we even are perhaps, but "eternal" ends when one dies, most likely, so "worldwide flood" becomes a marker for a kind of self deception, like...believing literally the creation account, as if there were literal trees and talking snakes and witnesses to it all recording it, or bad example maybe...nothing wrong with believing all that literally if one wants, dont get me wrong.

Believe in a literal flood too, fine, only the story of Noach (Noah was a girl btw, is a girl's name) plays...divinely well as a kind of divider between...our ancestors and us, lets say, as the name even indicates. Fwiw youll get a whole bunch of Jewish stuff in search there @ Noach, so i would keep the salt handy lol
You will find this quote if you scroll halfway down the web page in that long rectangular box explaining certain evidence for why Jasher is a fraud.
im already aware that the real book of Jasher was lost, but that does not make it, the real one, suspect or fraudulent? I mean youre reading an english Bible right now right, and its mostly crap
I understand your point in being literal and exclusive of what is not written, but it goes to how the following generations would get their coats of skins from. It is not an unsound reason to believe otherwise and such a derived conclusion would not go against scripture.
i agree, and believed that for most of my life. It was only recently that i noticed made coats instead of slew goats myself. Would such an event have been described in more detail? Again, imo the story is ambiguous on purpose, so that those who require blood can find it if they wish. Esau is here to get a chance too imo. Even those who believe Jesus died for their sins might still be saved later iow, if they allow Jacob to pass through
Care to give some scriptural references?
oh, theres many compiles of those already, i could copypaste one i guess yeh...
Books mentioned in the Bible that are not part of the "Today's Bible"
What I do declare that because it originated from the area of Alexandria where poetic licensing was known to exists, I'd say a different group or a singular author plagiarized a few verses from the accepted scripture to pass off their forgery. Those few plagiarized verses hardly make up for the bad writing style in that book, if you note.
well now we're back to talking about the forgeries and the plagiarisms, dont much care about those, but imo it is interesting that all of Christs titles were ripped off from the Caesars, and the Pharaohs before them, "king of kings, lord of lords, saviour, messiah, son of God," all of them. Even "the virgin will 'be with child'" comes to have a diff meaning than we assign to it, as those then contemporary to when the phrase was written would have heard something other than we hear, Athena worship being referenced iow. Which to a believer today comes across as like blasphemy or whatever i guess, but after all the Centurion was praised for his faith yeh
It is not an unsound reason to believe otherwise and such a derived conclusion would not go against scripture.
so iow it isnt at first, yes, and for many it might not ever be, but to one reading their Bible the evidence against that will finally become overwhelming imo.

but in my experience Death, More Abundantly and life, more abundantly just dont mix, just like in the story of Jacob and Esau basically
 
Last edited:

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well, what springs to mind is tithing where one is "fed," and there are similar analagies for flood i guess, plus i think it has been pretty well established that there was no world-wide flood, although flood myths saturate human consciousness? Which imo even plays into the concept, in a way that is kind of hard to get maybe...its easy to imagine we are all on some eternal journey, and in a sense we even are perhaps, but "eternal" ends when one dies, most likely, so "worldwide flood" becomes a marker for a kind of self deception, like...believing literally the creation account, as if there were literal trees and talking snakes and witnesses to it all recording it, or bad example maybe...nothing wrong with believing all that literally if one wants, dont get me wrong.

Would Jesus refer to a story or a historical account about the flood in warning believers to be ready or else?

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.

The ruins of Sodom as been found.

ruins of sodom and gomorrah found - YouTube

The link is to YouTube listing the results of a general search on that discovery. You pick what you want to see that you have time for to watch. I can understand skepticism on Christian sites presenting the evidence , but there is a History Channel link too. The point here is that Sodom & Gomorrah is read. So the Biblical global flood has to be read too.

Believe in a literal flood too, fine, only the story of Noach (Noah was a girl btw, is a girl's name) plays...divinely well as a kind of divider between...our ancestors and us, lets say, as the name even indicates. Fwiw youll get a whole bunch of Jewish stuff in search there @ Noach, so i would keep the salt handy lol

Stephen Jay Gould, an evolutionist, proposed Punctuated Equilibrium" or "Rapid Macroevolution" because of the huge gaps in the fossil records of supposed transitional fossils. He reported that there was an explosion in the fossil record that he ( assumed ) took place back in the Cambrian period. He stated that for that to tap that capacity for that explosion in the fossil record, a global flood had to happen. Now of course, when I share that tidbit with evolutionists, they said he never said it was over the mountains. And yet fossilized whale bones with other fossilized marine life has been found with fossilized land anima bones buried together on the Andes mountains. While the article in the news cited that the land rose suddenly trapping marine life on it, it fails to explain how the fossilized land animals bones were found with them. It is a significant find to point out as the world and scientists tried to cover it up with a faulty explanation and yet fossilized marine life has been found on other mountaintops all over the world. Go figure.

So how real do you need the evidence of the flood to be for why Jesus referred to it as a real life event as Sodom & Gomorrah was?

im already aware that the real book of Jasher was lost, but that does not make it, the real one, suspect or fraudulent? I mean youre reading an english Bible right now right, and its mostly crap

I meant the one we have no is fraudulent. Scripture reports the existence of that Book of Jasher, but the real one has not been found yet, and cited for why it may be lost.

i agree, and believed that for most of my life. It was only recently that i noticed made coats instead of slew goats myself. Would such an event have been described in more detail? Again, imo the story is ambiguous on purpose, so that those who require blood can find it if they wish. Esau is here to get a chance too imo. Even those who believe Jesus died for their sins might still be saved later iow, if they allow Jacob to pass through

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Seek and ye shall find the truth, brother. Matthew 7:7-8

oh, theres many compiles of those already, i could copypaste one i guess yeh...
Books mentioned in the Bible that are not part of the "Today's Bible"

I shall peruse that site for the information shared, and even though that is not giving a scriptural reference of Jesus & Paul referring to those lost books, but thank you for sharing anyway.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Would Jesus refer to a story or a historical account about the flood in warning believers to be ready or else?
well the story was pretty well established then so sure, why not, it is a valuable myth, which does not mean lie, but rather analogy. So i mean by the same token would Jesus plagiarize all of Caesar's Titles? yup, at least by association, right; Jesus Himself never actually claimed them, but they were claimed for Him, and they were undeniably all titles of Caesar
The ruins of Sodom as been found.
ok, and that there never was a worldwide all-encompassing flood has been found too i guess; many large, local floods, many flood myths, so many it is remarkable, however. Anyway, not denying that there is some factual basis for most of the NT anyway, sure, Sodom existed, i agree. But imo the spiritual principle is more important
The point here is that Sodom & Gomorrah is read. So the Biblical global flood has to be read too.
so go with that then, i accept a global, worldwide flood of a certain sort, yes, and the literal interp serves fine until the spiritual one can be assimilated, which involves Noach's "sons" and him getting cuckholded, etc, and even what "ark" means spiritually i guess.

But try to prove a literal ancient global flood and you will be revealed, just like trying to populate Nazareth in the first century i guess; no one was there then, it was a wasteland, still pretty bleak today tbh, like living in Death Valley or whatever
 
Last edited:

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well the story was pretty well established then so sure, why not, it is a valuable myth, which does not mean lie, but rather analogy. So i mean by the same token would Jesus plagiarize all of Caesar's Titles? yup, at least by association, right; Jesus Himself never actually claimed them, but they were claimed for Him, and they were undeniably all titles of Caesar

Not sure why you would take warning of God's judgment in order to avoid what is coming unless God had judged the world by a flood and those 2 cities too in real life history.

ok, and that there never was a worldwide all-encompassing flood has been found too i guess; many large, local floods, many flood myths, so many it is remarkable, however. Anyway, not denying that there is some factual basis for most of the NT anyway, sure, Sodom existed, i agree. But imo the spiritual principle is more important

Feel free to share a spiritual principle that you have gleaned from those events of the global flood and the two cities. I'd like to know.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
So how real do you need the evidence of the flood to be for why Jesus referred to it as a real life event as Sodom & Gomorrah was?
exactly imo, that is the Q, and it is as real as one who is ig...unlearned needs it to be, at least until the facts intrude; geology does not lie nor equivocate, and we can find no evidence of a literal worldwide flood, even by geologists who are believers and really wanted to find one. Test everything, and keep what is good right so either we are being lied to, or wisdom is hidden from the wise i guess. Imo the story of Noach works way better on a spiritual level anyway, literal/not literal flood becomes completely irrelevant tbh; there was a real, if only "spiritual" flood imo, ppl began to call upon the name of Yah etc

Not sure why you would take warning of God's judgment in order to avoid what is coming unless God had judged the world by a flood and those 2 cities too in real life history.
so then bam believe that, the flood myths predate Moses even, used in virtually every culture and belief system on the planet i guess, and not for nothing imo. I do not disbelieve the spiritual principles imparted in the story of Noach, i have just come to find more value in contemplating Noach as a type rather than an actual person,whose name we dont even get right :)
Feel free to share a spiritual principle that you have gleaned from those events of the global flood and the two cities. I'd like to know.
ha tbh i doubt you would, knowledge brings sorrow right, what believer wants to accept that they are Esau and No son of man may die for another's sins after all?
i tell you its no fun no longer being Esau, and not yet being Jacob lol; the real wrestling comes after that i guess huh

And not sure how the Sodom and Gomorrah story got involved here? But since it was invoked i will say that there are likely no "homosexuals" such as we define that today in the Bible at all, just as there are no literal whores in prophets gone a'whoring, and even the Scriptural account of Sodom's sins does not list it. And as to Noach i would just refer one to a better source, The amazing name Noah: meaning and etymology which btw i dont agree with entirely, but i can dig up some others that add/conflict too; what i mostly like about the Abarim is they do not use satan's dialectic, dont write like they know everything, even though they pretty much hold the same opinion of themselves that we do of ours, at least they are trying iow

"In English translations of the Bible, there are two characters named Noah, one man and one woman. In Hebrew, however, these two names are totally different, and their meanings are exact opposites."

!
priceless imo, mirrors our opinions of Jesus too, Who turns out to be pretty much the exact opposite of what most believers believe at first.
 
Last edited:

Enow

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
1,210
215
63
60
Hermitage
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Seems I missed the edited version of your reply.

well, what springs to mind is tithing where one is "fed," and there are similar analagies for flood i guess, plus i think it has been pretty well established that there was no world-wide flood, although flood myths saturate human consciousness? Which imo even plays into the concept, in a way that is kind of hard to get maybe...its easy to imagine we are all on some eternal journey, and in a sense we even are perhaps, but "eternal" ends when one dies, most likely, so "worldwide flood" becomes a marker for a kind of self deception, like...believing literally the creation account, as if there were literal trees and talking snakes and witnesses to it all recording it, or bad example maybe...nothing wrong with believing all that literally if one wants, dont get me wrong.

Jesus did validate scripture for how it cannot be broken, meaning what is written is true. He did a lot of reference to the O.T. scripture in refuting the Jews; even when they sought to condemn His disciples in Matthew 12:1-7 for profaning the sabbath day.

Believe in a literal flood too, fine, only the story of Noach (Noah was a girl btw, is a girl's name) plays...divinely well as a kind of divider between...our ancestors and us, lets say, as the name even indicates. Fwiw youll get a whole bunch of Jewish stuff in search there @ Noach, so i would keep the salt handy lol

Not when scripture testify Noah by male pronouns.

im already aware that the real book of Jasher was lost, but that does not make it, the real one, suspect or fraudulent? I mean youre reading an english Bible right now right, and its mostly crap

The KJV is not. Try reading that one, relying on Him to see the meat in His words for discerning good and evil by it.

i agree, and believed that for most of my life. It was only recently that i noticed made coats instead of slew goats myself. Would such an event have been described in more detail? Again, imo the story is ambiguous on purpose, so that those who require blood can find it if they wish. Esau is here to get a chance too imo. Even those who believe Jesus died for their sins might still be saved later iow, if they allow Jacob to pass through

Any story can be seen ambiguous by how people speak today. Do they not sometimes give general vague references that hearers know what they are talking about without going into detail? Like "I turned the light on in the room." Just because the detail is left out in how he did that, doesn't mean people can fathom how he did it by what they know of in their lives today in ow they turned on the lights in a room.

oh, theres many compiles of those already, i could copypaste one i guess yeh...
Books mentioned in the Bible that are not part of the "Today's Bible"

Looking for references of Jesus and Paul referring to lost books... nothing from Jesus, but from Paul as per epistles he had written and sent by reference earlier to the Corinth.

As for the missing epistle to the Laodiceans, the epistle is actually entitled the Book of Philemon. These verses connect it.

Colossians 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house. 16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea. 17 And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

Philemon 1:11 Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer, 2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

Anyway, that reference from Paul about an earlier epistle to the Corinthians is about the only one I can find from that link you are talking about, but I doubt there is any such lost book or epistle around claiming to be that earlier epistle to the Corinthians.

well now we're back to talking about the forgeries and the plagiarisms, dont much care about those, but imo it is interesting that all of Christs titles were ripped off from the Caesars, and the Pharaohs before them, "king of kings, lord of lords, saviour, messiah, son of God," all of them. Even "the virgin will 'be with child'" comes to have a diff meaning than we assign to it, as those then contemporary to when the phrase was written would have heard something other than we hear, Athena worship being referenced iow. Which to a believer today comes across as like blasphemy or whatever i guess, but after all the Centurion was praised for his faith yeh

so iow it isnt at first, yes, and for many it might not ever be, but to one reading their Bible the evidence against that will finally become overwhelming imo.

but in my experience Death, More Abundantly and life, more abundantly just dont mix, just like in the story of Jacob and Esau basically

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
 
Last edited: