WAKE UP!!! Church pastors we are living in the days of the very near rapture!

[David in NJ]

You are missing the first will be last, and the last shall be first, point Jesus made.

i am in full agreement with - "the first will be last and the last shall be first"

ALL scripture flows in Harmony with ITSELF as we yield to it and allow the Holy Spirit to unlock It's Truth in us who are His.

Peace

Eternal Prophetic Food for Thought = Eze ch14 - Why did God mention Noah, Daniel and Job together as one statement?

CLUE = Job is mentioned last in Order but was before Daniel and Noah is mentioned first but Jesus spoke of him Last.

 

[The Light]

Where anywhere in Jeremiah does it mention a rapture of the church, followed by a 7 years trib followed by a 3rd coming, never mind Jeremiah 30?

Where anywhere in Jeremiah does it mention a garden of Eden, followed Noah escaping a world wide flood, followed by the savior of the world being crucified and rising from the dead?

You misinterpret an Old Testament prophecy (Jeremiah 30) that expressly relates to the Babylonian exile, and apply it to some supposed Pretrib rapture, some alleged 7 years trib or a 3rd coming that is not remotely mentioned in the passage. This is how Pretrib hermeneutics work. They employ theological dubious colored rules. This shows us how bereft Pretrib is of biblical support.

It is so hard engaging with this position is because you have to deprogram them from all the false teaching that they have been taught over the years.

Jacob's troubles are not mentioned anywhere in Revelation or anywhere else in the New Testament. Pretribbers have to force it in there.

Babylon? Maybe you should spend more time studying so you have less time to spread ignorance.

Jeremiah 30
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Jeremiah 30
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Jeremiah 31
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

Dispensationalists boast often about the need for a literalist approach to Scripture. But when their theology is tested by the Word of God it is seen to fall short. When we analyze their boast, we find truth after truth and passage after passage that they butcher in order to facility their doctrine. Not only do they not take a literal approach but they also repeatedly fail to acknowledge context or setting. The subject of Jacob’s trouble is a case-in-point.
Pretribbers rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it to some imaginary seven-year period at the end, to support their end-time beliefs.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

See above. Let me correct that statement. ATTEMPT to see above.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation is a Reflection upon the OT Prophetic Word, the Gospel, the Apostles writings with added INSIGHT by the Lord.

No one will ever correctly interpret Revelation if you fail to understand what was written prior to Revelation.

The Apostles John and Paul along with the Holy Spirit did not confuse or change their mind about when the Antichrist debuts.

Start here = 1 John 2:18
"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. "

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Your "man of sin" is not an antichrist. Paul is speaking of Satan. The church has revealed Satan as the one who opposes God at every step of life.

Satan is not the antichrist. Humans under Satan's power are the antichrist.

Revelation is not a reflection. John did not muse about, nor dream about writings from the 2nd century BC. John was physically taken to the Millennium, the Day of the Lord, and was a physical witness to the Second Coming. He was writing while awake and alert those scenes in Revelation. He was about to write about the 7 Thunders, but was stopped. He saw them happen, but was not allowed to tell us those events. Revelation is a direct witness to the revealing of Messiah the Prince to John. John uses the term Lamb, not the OT terms Messiah nor Prince. We know the Lamb is Jesus, and Jesus is both Christ and King.

 

[David in NJ]

Your "man of sin" is not an antichrist. Paul is speaking of Satan. The church has revealed Satan as the one who opposes God at every step of life.

Satan is not the antichrist. Humans under Satan's power are the antichrist.

Revelation is not a reflection. John did not muse about, nor dream about writings from the 2nd century BC. John was physically taken to the Millennium, the Day of the Lord, and was a physical witness to the Second Coming. He was writing while awake and alert those scenes in Revelation. He was about to write about the 7 Thunders, but was stopped. He saw them happen, but was not allowed to tell us those events. Revelation is a direct witness to the revealing of Messiah the Prince to John. John uses the term Lamb, not the OT terms Messiah nor Prince. We know the Lamb is Jesus, and Jesus is both Christ and King.

Satan is the Cherubim that sinned and he will indwell the man of sin = the Antichrist.

JESUS said so - John 13:21-27 and John 17:12
When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.” 22Then the disciples looked at one another, perplexed about whom He spoke.

23Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke.

25Then, leaning back on Jesus’ breast, he said to Him, “Lord, who is it?”

26Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;
and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Timtofly]

i am in full agreement with - "the first will be last and the last shall be first"

ALL scripture flows in Harmony with ITSELF as we yield to it and allow the Holy Spirit to unlock It's Truth in us who are His.

Peace

Eternal Prophetic Food for Thought = Eze ch14 - Why did God mention Noah, Daniel and Job together as one statement?

CLUE = Job is mentioned last in Order but was before Daniel and Noah is mentioned first but Jesus spoke of him Last.

All three already have a permanent incorruptible physical body and are serving God day and night in His temple in Paradise since Resurrection Sunday.

The first being last and the last being first apply to those alive on earth at the Second Coming. Those in Paradise have already enjoyed 1993 years of faithful service to God.

 

[David in NJ]

All three already have a permanent incorruptible physical body and are serving God day and night in His temple in Paradise since Resurrection Sunday.

The first being last and the last being first apply to those alive on earth at the Second Coming. Those in Paradise have already enjoyed 1993 years of faithful service to God.

NEW doctrine = You said: "All three already have a permanent incorruptible physical body"

Where in Scripture does it show the Resurrection of OT Saints and their Glorified NT bodies???

 

[David in NJ]

Your "man of sin" is not an antichrist. Paul is speaking of Satan. The church has revealed Satan as the one who opposes God at every step of life.

Satan is not the antichrist. Humans under Satan's power are the antichrist.

Revelation is not a reflection. John did not muse about, nor dream about writings from the 2nd century BC. John was physically taken to the Millennium, the Day of the Lord, and was a physical witness to the Second Coming. He was writing while awake and alert those scenes in Revelation. He was about to write about the 7 Thunders, but was stopped. He saw them happen, but was not allowed to tell us those events. Revelation is a direct witness to the revealing of Messiah the Prince to John. John uses the term Lamb, not the OT terms Messiah nor Prince. We know the Lamb is Jesus, and Jesus is both Christ and King.

I SEE you like Blinders


Apostle John
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared.
This is how we know it is the last hour.

the LORD Jesus Christ
At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it.
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.
See, I have told you in advance.

Denying the very words of God will never lead you to SEE the Truth.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan is the Cherubim that sinned and he will indwell the man of sin = the Antichrist.

JESUS said so - John 13:21-27 and John 17:12
When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.” 22Then the disciples looked at one another, perplexed about whom He spoke.

23Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke.

25Then, leaning back on Jesus’ breast, he said to Him, “Lord, who is it?”

26Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;
and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Sorry but Satan entering one is the spirit of. The beast here is your AC. Satan is not in him, but next to him. 3 seperate beings sending out 3 spirits. Judas had a spirit in him, not physical Satan. An angel is never said to indwell a human being. Yes, Satan was created an angel and will always be that created angel.

Judas may have been an antichrist, but with a spirit from Satan, not Satan in him. When Scripture claims God in us, God sends the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only created person that dwells in all of the redeemed at the same time.

 

[David in NJ]

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Sorry but Satan entering one is the spirit of. The beast here is your AC. Satan is not in him, but next to him. 3 seperate beings sending out 3 spirits. Judas had a spirit in him, not physical Satan. An angel is never said to indwell a human being. Yes, Satan was created an angel and will always be that created angel.

Judas may have been an antichrist, but with a spirit from Satan, not Satan in him. When Scripture claims God in us, God sends the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the only created person that dwells in all of the redeemed at the same time.

WOW - more NEW doctrine = just deny scripture and/or twist it up a bit.................got it.

Here's a new one = "The Holy Spirit is the only created person ........"

 

[Timtofly]

NEW doctrine = You said: "All three already have a permanent incorruptible physical body"

Where in Scripture does it show the Resurrection of OT Saints and their Glorified NT bodies???

Matthew 27 and 2 Corinthians 5:1

Revelation 7:9-17 has been in place since 30AD.

 

[Timtofly]

WOW - more NEW doctrine = just deny scripture and/or twist it up a bit.................got it.

Here's a new one = "The Holy Spirit is the only created person ........"

Yes the Trinity is part of our understanding of creation, and God working in creation. Do you think there was a Trinity before creation?

Not a new doctrine. It has been reasoned out since Abraham met Jesus in the flesh.

Do you think the GWT started at a certain point but exists in eternity outside of creation? Is the GWT physical? Or just a mental spiritual vision?

 

[David in NJ]

Matthew 27 and 2 Corinthians 5:1

Revelation 7:9-17 has been in place since 30AD.

Great scripture but no Transformation of Saints in these scriptures.

The First Resurrection and Transformation of Saints only takes place at the Second Coming of Christ.

Please Read:
a.) 1 Thess 4:13-18
b.) 1 Cor chapter 15
c.) 1 John 3:1-3
d.) Daniel ch12
e.) Revelation

 

[David in NJ]

Yes the Trinity is part of our understanding of creation, and God working in creation. Do you think there was a Trinity before creation?

Not a new doctrine. It has been reasoned out since Abraham met Jesus in the flesh.

Do you think the GWT started at a certain point but exists in eternity outside of creation? Is the GWT physical? Or just a mental spiritual vision?

This is helpful.

Can you please provide for me the scripture where the Holy Spirit and Jesus were created.

Thank You

 

[WPM]

Where anywhere in Jeremiah does it mention a garden of Eden, followed Noah escaping a world wide flood, followed by the savior of the world being crucified and rising from the dead?


Babylon? Maybe you should spend more time studying so you have less time to spread ignorance.

Jeremiah 30
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Jeremiah 30
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Jeremiah 31
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

See above. Let me correct that statement. ATTEMPT to see above.

Just what I though: you do not have any viable justification for your claims.

 

[WPM]

EXCELLENT Scripture = AMEN

Not one of these scriptures nullify what Jesus said is the FIRST Resurrection of the dead in Christ.

Peace

Please read it again before agreeing with it. It forbids your supposed future millennium. You have no corroboration for your future first resurrection. If it was future then it would not be the first.

 

[David in NJ]

Please read it again before agreeing with it. It forbids your supposed future millennium. You have no corroboration for your future first resurrection. If it was future then it would not be the first.

Read them ALL - no conflict with Revelation ch20 whatsoever.

 

[WPM]

Read them ALL - no conflict with Revelation ch20 whatsoever.

Do you believe in the necessity of employing corroboration when determining truth?

 

[WPM]

EXCELLENT Scripture = AMEN

Not one of these scriptures nullify what Jesus said is the FIRST Resurrection of the dead in Christ.

Peace

Ok, so are you saying that the "first resurrection" relates to the wicked when Jesus comes: "the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."?

 

[The Light]

Just what I though: you do not have any viable justification for your claims.

Just what I knew. Your bogus claims are dripping in total ignorance as you actually believe that Jeremaih 30 is about Babylon. As I said, you best do a little more study though your blindness to the truth seems inevitable.

 

[WPM]

Just what I knew. Your bogus claims are dripping in total ignorance as you actually believe that Jeremaih 30 is about Babylon. As I said, you best do a little more study though your blindness to the truth seems inevitable.

Pretribbers rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it to some imaginary seven-year period at the end, to support their end-time beliefs.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

Jeremiah 1:3 “It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.”

Jeremiah 2:27-28: “they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us. But where are thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for according to the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.”

Jeremiah 8:14-15: “assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD. We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble! "

Jeremiah 11:10-12: “They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.”

Jeremiah 14:7: “O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee. O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble.”

Jeremiah 15:2: “And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.”

Jeremiah 20:4: “For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will make thee a terror to thyself, and to all thy friends: and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and thine eyes shall behold it: and I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall carry them captive into Babylon, and shall slay them with the sword.”

Jeremiah 25:9-11: “Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Jeremiah 29:1: “Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon."

Jeremiah 30:3-7: “For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. "

Jeremiah 30:10-11: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

This was speaking of Babylon at the time. It reveals a consistent scriptural truth, the vessels God uses to chasten His people, He then casts away. It was only the last few books that were post-exile. As promised, Israel after chastisement was delivered. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 32:44: “Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.”

Jeremiah 51:1: “Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host. Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.”

If this was a legal case it would be a closed case. I believe it is absolutely water-tight. The lawyer would simply say: “I rest my case.” I don’t believe there is any question that an objective analyze of this book would come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jeremiah is describing Israel’s captivity in Babylon in his day. There is no mention (or context) of end-times in the prophet’s writings on this matter. Quite the opposite.