WAKE UP!!! Church pastors we are living in the days of the very near rapture!

[David in NJ]

Ok, so are you saying that the "first resurrection" relates to the wicked when Jesus comes: "the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."?

Tell me what you are reading here:

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[The Light]

You rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it the First Advent, to support your end-time beliefs.

Well, your accusation is incorrect just many things you speak of are incorrect. I will show you facts, though the truth does seem to take root with you.

A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. It describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.

Well, let's continue and see if your assertation is true.

Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.

Jeremiah 1:3 “It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.”

Jeremiah 2:27-28: “they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us. But where are thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for according to the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.”

Jeremiah 8:14-15: “assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD. We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble! "

Jeremiah 11:10-12: “They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.”

Jeremiah 14:7: “O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee. O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time of trouble.”

Jeremiah 15:2: “And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.”

Jeremiah 20:4: “For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will make thee a terror to thyself, and to all thy friends: and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and thine eyes shall behold it: and I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall carry them captive into Babylon, and shall slay them with the sword.”
Jeremiah 25:9-11: “Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”

Jeremiah 29:1: “Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon."
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So far, so good.

Jeremiah 30:3-7: “For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel

It appears that the people go a second time into captivity

and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. "

It appears AFTER the return of Israel, THE SECOND TIME that the time of Jacobs trouble occurs.

Jeremiah 30:10-11: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”

This appears to be a future event as the Lord has NOT made a full end of all nations where Israel was scattered. This will not occur until the 7th trumpet when "The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord."

This was speaking of Babylon at the time. It reveals a consistent scriptural truth, the vessels God uses to chasten His people, He then casts away. It was only the last few books that were post-exile. As promised, Israel after chastisement was delivered.

No. This appears to be talking about the second time Israel is dispersed.

Babylon was utterly destroyed. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Was Babylon utterly destroyed? You need a history lesson. Babylon was not utterly destroyed. Babylon was abandoned. Look it up. Babylon opened her gates.

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 31:23: “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.”

Jeremiah 32:44: “Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.”
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Not the same captivity that was of Babylon.

 

[The Light]

Jeremiah 51:1: “Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about. Against him that bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against him that lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host. Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.”

Now you are really stepping in it. Contrary to popular opinion Jeremiah 50 and 51 are unfulfilled prophecies.

The prophecy is not only against the city of Babylon, but also against the land of the Chaldeans

Jeremiah 50
The word that the Lord spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

Jeremiah 51
62 Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

There are still men living in the land of the Chaldeans and in the city of Babylon for that matter. The prophecy is unfullfilled as of yet but will be fullfilled during the TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE.

If this was a legal case it would be a closed case.

Nope. It would be the death penality or at least entering the hour of testing that is so very, very, close.

I believe it is absolutely water-tight.

Well here came the flood and the truth said someone drowned.

The lawyer would simply say: “I rest my case.” I don’t believe there is any question that an objective analyze of this book would come to any other conclusion than the fact that Jeremiah is describing Israel’s captivity in Babylon in his day.

The first 29 chapters of Jeremaih were about Babylonian captivity. That all changes in Jeremiah 30. Also the judgement of Jeremiah 50 and 51 is unfilled as we can see people living to this day.

You need to do a lot more studying. You sure miss a lot which explains why you are unable to see that God will come for His Church when you think not.

The judgement of Babylon has not happened yet, even though Gulf War 1 and 2 seems to be a tuneup. The job is not complete.
The job will not be complete until the DAY OF WRATH.

Isaiah 13
The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.

4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

 

[WPM]

Well, your accusation is incorrect just many things you speak of are incorrect. I will show you facts, though the truth does seem to take root with you.


Well, let's continue and see if your assertation is true.



So far, so good.


It appears that the people go a second time into captivity



It appears AFTER the return of Israel, THE SECOND TIME that the time of Jacobs trouble occurs.


This appears to be a future event as the Lord has NOT made a full end of all nations where Israel was scattered. This will not occur until the 7th trumpet when "The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord."


No. This appears to be talking about the second time Israel is dispersed.




Was Babylon utterly destroyed? You need a history lesson. Babylon was not utterly destroyed. Babylon was abandoned. Look it up. Babylon opened her gates.


Not the same captivity that was of Babylon.

Where did i say above that Babylon was totally destroyed?

 

[WPM]

Now you are really stepping in it. Contrary to popular opinion Jeremiah 50 and 51 are unfulfilled prophecies.

The prophecy is not only against the city of Babylon, but also against the land of the Chaldeans

Jeremiah 50
The word that the Lord spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

Jeremiah 51
62 Then shalt thou say, O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

There are still men living in the land of the Chaldeans and in the city of Babylon for that matter. The prophecy is unfullfilled as of yet but will be fullfilled during the TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE.



Nope. It would be the death penality or at least entering the hour of testing that is so very, very, close.


Well here came the flood and the truth said someone drowned.


The first 29 chapters of Jeremaih were about Babylonian captivity. That all changes in Jeremiah 30. Also the judgement of Jeremiah 50 and 51 is unfilled as we can see people living to this day.

You need to do a lot more studying. You sure miss a lot which explains why you are unable to see that God will come for His Church when you think not.

The judgement of Babylon has not happened yet, even though Gulf War 1 and 2 seems to be a tuneup. The job is not complete.
The job will not be complete until the DAY OF WRATH.

Isaiah 13
The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.

4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Can you provide one single proof text in Jeremiah that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord? Everyone knows the answer. You are twisting the text to support a man-made teaching.

 

[The Light]

Can you provide one single proof text in Jeremiah that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord? Everyone knows the answer. You are twisting the text to support a man-made teaching.

I'll have to check on that.

In the meantime, can you provide one single proof text in Jeremiah that teaches a fall of mankind in the garden of Eden, followed Noah escaping a world wide flood, followed by the savior of the world being crucified and rising from the dead?

 

[The Light]

Where did i say above that Babylon was totally destroyed?

Here's your quote

WPM said:
Babylon was utterly destroyed. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

 

[Timtofly]

Great scripture but no Transformation of Saints in these scriptures.

The First Resurrection and Transformation of Saints only takes place at the Second Coming of Christ.

Please Read:
a.) 1 Thess 4:13-18
b.) 1 Cor chapter 15
c.) 1 John 3:1-3
d.) Daniel ch12
e.) Revelation

That is your opinion and interpretation. The Cross was the last day resurrection for OT redeemed. They were not just relocated. They were given permanent incorruptible physical bodies to enjoy the fulness of Paradise.

But what does it matter? They are enjoying life even while you deny that fact. Nothing you say will change that fact. You are the one living in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, not them. Perhaps you need to rethink who the dead in Christ are. No one tasted death after the Cross. Tasting death is a current condition for those alive on earth. But hey what do I know, except God's Word.

 

[Timtofly]

This is helpful.

Can you please provide for me the scripture where the Holy Spirit and Jesus were created.

Thank You

Genesis 1:1

The Lord created all things, even the Trinity. What other creation would the Trinity be relative to? Do you limit God to what you know? I would not limit God to 3 persons, but that is the extent of my understanding.

 

[WPM]

I'll have to check on that.

In the meantime, can you provide one single proof text in Jeremiah that teaches a fall of mankind in the garden of Eden, followed Noah escaping a world wide flood, followed by the savior of the world being crucified and rising from the dead?

Who said that was all predicted to occur in the future? That shows how petty and nonsensical Pretrib is. You claim that is what is going to happen according to the Bible. Where are your Scriptures? This post is just a deflection.

I will take this as an admission that you have nothing for your beliefs. They belong to the Left Behind novels.

 

[WPM]

Here's your quote

WPM said:
Babylon was utterly destroyed. They were only one of many nations over the centuries. Today in this New Testament era, those who oppose God's only nation the Church face the same outcome.

Which post?

 

[David in NJ]

Genesis 1:1

The Lord created all things, even the Trinity. What other creation would the Trinity be relative to? Do you limit God to what you know? I would not limit God to 3 persons, but that is the extent of my understanding.

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

No mention of God creating a Trinity here.

 

[The Light]

Who said that was all predicted to occur in the future? That shows how petty and nonsensical Pretrib is. You claim that is what is going to happen according to the Bible. Where are your Scriptures? This post is just a deflection.

I will take this as an admission that you have nothing for your beliefs. They belong to the Left Behind novels.

LOL. You are a crackup posting a bunch nonsense. Constantly setting up strawman arguments and then knocking them down like you are proving something.

I just can't help your blindness. The time is soon and yet the blind can't see. We are told specifically to WATCH and be ready. And yet, are you?

 

[David in NJ]

I'll have to check on that.

In the meantime, can you provide one single proof text in Jeremiah that teaches a fall of mankind in the garden of Eden, followed Noah escaping a world wide flood, followed by the savior of the world being crucified and rising from the dead?

The BEST and ONLY way to prove your theory on pre-trib, if true, is to show from scripture that it indeed was spoken of by God thru the
OT Prophets, Gospel and Apostles writings.

Forcing an opinion upon scripture only proves that it is unsubstantiated by scripture.

It is no different then a catholics claim that the Pope is the vicar of Christ.

 

[The Light]

Which post?

The one you edited after I completely exposed the ignorance of your argument.

 

[The Light]

The BEST and ONLY way to prove your theory on pre-trib if true, is to show from scripture that it indeed was spoken of by God thru the OT Prophets, Gospel and Apostles writings.

Forcing an opinion upon scripture only proves that it is unsubstantiated by scripture.

It is no different then a catholics claim that the Pope is the vicar of Christ.

Already done. Song of Songs 2, Luke 17, luke 21. 1 Thes 4 etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,

 

[WPM]

LOL. You are a crackup posting a bunch nonsense. Constantly setting up strawman arguments and then knocking them down like you are proving something.

I just can't help your blindness. The time is soon and yet the blind can't see. We are told specifically to WATCH and be ready. And yet, are you?

Why not simply admit your theology is not in the Word. It has to be taught by your teachers. It is man-made.

 

[WPM]

The one you edited after I completely exposed the ignorance of your argument.

You were supposedly responding to my last unedited post. Where is it in there? Stop ducking around this.

 

[David in NJ]

Already done. Song of Songs 2, Luke 17, luke 21. 1 Thes 4 etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,

#1. OT scriptures speak against it = Genesis, Daniel, Job
#2. Jesus spoke against it in the Gospel and Revelation
#3. the Apostles spoke against it = 1 & 2 Thess , 1 John , James , 1 Cor ch15

The scriptures you use are against your error.