WAKE UP!!! Church pastors we are living in the days of the very near rapture!

[The Light]

No, the church goes through the wrath of satan which is the GT.

The Great Tribulation is OVER before the wrath of God begins. How can you not understand this? Wrath begins with the first trumpet after the 7th seal is opened. The tribulation is already over,

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

THEN Jesus comes for the SECOND harvest. You have already missed the first harvest which is the rapture of the Church BEFORE the seals are opened. Now you are missing the coming of Jesus and the second harvest BEFORE WRATH.

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The wrath of God comes at the 7th trump. YOU are the one who is wrong.

NO, Brother. Wrath is OVER at the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Jesus has returned. The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord. ARMAGEDDON IS OVER. Wrath is over. It is the time of judgement.

Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

It is the time of judgement. The righteous are given their reward and wicked receive the judgement of destruction.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come (arrives) after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,

The nations WERE angry. It's over. Wrath is complete. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. It's judgement time. Armageddon is past. Wrath is over.

My understanding is far above what you think it is in fact the seals are more similar to Mathew 24 than you know. Both are prophesies, not things happening at that time.

Yes they are prophesies. But the seals are John telling us about end times. Matthew 24 is Jesus telling us about end times. They are both telling you the same story. You can go right down the seals and get the exact story in Matthew 24. It begins with the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Then then comes the great tribulation. Then IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days Jesus returns. THEN THE 7TH SEAL IS OPENED AND WRATH BEGINS. The trumpet are Gods wrath. Wrath is OVER at the 7th trumpet.

They are prophesies of future events. Do you really think I was just lucky knowing the land beast was the AC when 99 percent of teachers don't know that?

No. I didn't think that you were lucky at all. I think you made a correct observation. You were EXACTLY right. But the real observation you should have made is that when the correction came to light, I did not hesitate to correct myself and right then and there corrected my view. You should realize that I don't follow a religion, and I don't have a need to be right. What the word says is what I believe. That should make you look a little longer at what I am telling you.

The word doesn't say that part. The 12 tribes for the most part aren't Christians but the seed of the woman are Christians.

The twelve tribes currently are not Christians in the most part. However the 12 tribes ARE the seed of the woman. Their eyes will be opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The Church age is over BEFORE the seals are opened. Then the final week begins and God turns His attention to His chosen. Many of the seed of the woman will have their eyes opened. The woman Israel will not have it's eyes opened. Those that flea to a place of protection will remain on earth during the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

Truly some Good Humor here Brother - TY

Yeah. And truth.

 

[David in NJ]

Yeah. And truth.

The Truth of Crowns is found in Post 140

 

[The Light]

So the pre-trib myth is that since we see 24 Elders with crowns they must be the raptured church!

No. Again. Here is the raptured Church in heaven.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The twenty four elders with crowns are PROOF that Jesus has returned. Jesus brings His rewards with Him when He returns, so obviously Jesus has returned and we see the Church in heaven in Revelation 5. You can pretend they are not there if you so choose.

Yet there is not a single mention of a pre-trib rapture taking place in the OT Prophets, the Gospels, Acts, Apostles or even now in Revelation.

If you had oil in your lamp you would sing a different tune. He is getting ready to come for His Church and you are completely unaware.

Furthermore, the error of pre-trib rapture, will once again be debunked/destroyed/dissolved by God Himself.

That will not happen as it is not in error. There are wise virgins and foolish virgins. He is coming soon. Get some oil in your lamp so you can see.

The 24 Elders rejoice that the LION of Judah is able to open the Seals:
So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.

Now God Himself = DIRECTLY to us, right now, is going to tell you that no pre-trib rapture has taken place on earth with His Saints.

God just told you that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That's good enough for me. The seals are the final week when God turns His attention to His Chosen people. There is a reason that the Church is mentioned 19 times in the first 3 chapters, and then all goes silent about the Church until Rev 22. Certainly not proof, but a wise man would take notice.

the Opening of the 5th Seal - Revelation 6:9-11

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

No crowns given to the Saints who are before the LORD.
What was given to them???
Only White Robes!!!
WHY???

God tells us why = v11 - Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer,
until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Once again, the Word of God exposes man-made false doctrine such as 'pre-trib rapture.

It was explained. Those without lamp oil cannot see. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. That harvest is complete, Jesus has returned for the Church and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then it is the time of Jacobs trouble when the seals are opened. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. No crowns are given to them until the harvest at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view of the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[ewq1938]

The Great Tribulation is OVER before the wrath of God begins. How can you not understand this?

Everyone knows that except Pretribbers. The wrath of God starts at the 7th trump when the GT has ended.

Wrath begins with the first trumpet after the 7th seal is opened. The tribulation is already over,

Th GT doesn't start until the 6th trump. The wrath of God doesn't start at the 1st trump. Scripture clearly says the wrath of God begins at the 7th trump, Rev 11.

NO, Brother. Wrath is OVER at the 7th trumpet.

Not according to the bible: Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,

Come is not "endeth". Come is the arrival or beginning.

 

[David in NJ]

No. Again. Here is the raptured Church in heaven.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The twenty four elders with crowns are PROOF that Jesus has returned. Jesus brings His rewards with Him when He returns, so obviously Jesus has returned and we see the Church in heaven in Revelation 5. You can pretend they are not there if you so choose.


If you had oil in your lamp you would sing a different tune. He is getting ready to come for His Church and you are completely unaware.


That will not happen as it is not in error. There are wise virgins and foolish virgins. He is coming soon. Get some oil in your lamp so you can see.

God just told you that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That's good enough for me. The seals are the final week when God turns His attention to His Chosen people. There is a reason that the Church is mentioned 19 times in the first 3 chapters, and then all goes silent about the Church until Rev 22. Certainly not proof, but a wise man would take notice.

It was explained. Those without lamp oil cannot see. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. That harvest is complete, Jesus has returned for the Church and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then it is the time of Jacobs trouble when the seals are opened. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. No crowns are given to them until the harvest at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view of the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

In every place in Scripture that a pre-fibber attempts to lay it's claim, they fall short of the Glory of Truth = especially Revelation.

Matthew 24:30-31
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

the LORD says there will be no pre-trib rapture = He comes with every eye seeing Him and those who are not saved will mourn - greatly.

 

[David in NJ]

No. Again. Here is the raptured Church in heaven.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The twenty four elders with crowns are PROOF that Jesus has returned. Jesus brings His rewards with Him when He returns, so obviously Jesus has returned and we see the Church in heaven in Revelation 5. You can pretend they are not there if you so choose.


If you had oil in your lamp you would sing a different tune. He is getting ready to come for His Church and you are completely unaware.


That will not happen as it is not in error. There are wise virgins and foolish virgins. He is coming soon. Get some oil in your lamp so you can see.

God just told you that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That's good enough for me. The seals are the final week when God turns His attention to His Chosen people. There is a reason that the Church is mentioned 19 times in the first 3 chapters, and then all goes silent about the Church until Rev 22. Certainly not proof, but a wise man would take notice.

It was explained. Those without lamp oil cannot see. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. That harvest is complete, Jesus has returned for the Church and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then it is the time of Jacobs trouble when the seals are opened. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. No crowns are given to them until the harvest at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view of the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

You said: "God just told you that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That's good enough for me."

Religious man's opinion should never be "good enough" for you.

God never said(not once) in Rev chapters 1-7 that Christ came and raptured His Bride, His Saints = the Church.

HE did say that there will be no pre-trib rapture of His Saints.

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”
11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 7:9-14

 

[The Light]

In every place in Scripture that a pre-fibber.................

LOL................. a dandy it was.

 

[David in NJ]

LOL................. a dandy it was.

Anoint your eyes that you may SEE

He is Coming on the clouds and every eye shall see Him = Matt ch24 , Acts 1:9-11 , Daniel 7:21-22, Rev 1:7 , Rev 6:15-16

 

[The Light]

Everyone knows that except Pretribbers. The wrath of God starts at the 7th trump when the GT has ended.


Th GT doesn't start until the 6th trump. The wrath of God doesn't start at the 1st trump. Scripture clearly says the wrath of God begins at the 7th trump, Rev 11.

Not according to the bible: Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,

Come is not "endeth". Come is the arrival or beginning.

It all comes down to you just denying what you are reading. What you are reading does not fit where you think it should, so you just skip it and pretend that it's not there.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. THAT MEANS CHRIST HAS RETURNED. He shall reign for ever and ever. Armageddon is over. Judgement and time of the dead has arrived. Wrath is over.

How do you just skip this and pretend that it is not there????????????????

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Christs Church is His Bride/Body.

Names given to denote the Body/Bride of Christ:

a.) His disciple(s) - Matt 24:3-4 , Matt 28:18-20
b.) Elect - Matt 24:31 , 1 Peter 1:2 , Titus 1:1 , and many more
c.) Chosen - John 15:16 , Ephesians 1:11-12 , 1 Peter 2:4
d.) Living Stones - 1 Peter 2:5
e.) Saints - Ephesians 1:1 , 1 Cor 1:2 , Daniel 7:27 , Revelation 11:18 and 14:12

Truth speaks louder then men's touting of pre-trib rapture falsehood

Saints are not speaking of the Church, its mostly speaking generically about Israel. Why do you think in Rev. 17 John SPECIFICALLY calls those killed by the Harlot (All False Religion of ALL TIME) Saint AND Martyrs of Jesus? I just destroyed your thesis, I bet you didge this. SMILE.

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman(False Religion/Harlot) drunken with the blood of the saints, AND with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Elect in Matt. 24:31 is only Jews, the Church returns with Jesus, the Gentile converts are NOT PROTECTED and will be killed (Martyrs under the altar at the 5th Seal) as Rev. 12 shows us, Satan turns from the Woman (Israel) he can't get at and goes after the REMNANT (Church) of her SEED (Jesus is that seed read Gal. 3:16) who keep the Commandments of God AND have the Testimony of Christ Jesus, so this Remnant can't be the 1/3 (Zech. 13:8-9)of the Jews who repent, they are protected, AND it can't be the 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent because they do not have the Testimony of Jesus do they? So, this Remnant can ONLY BE the Remnant Gentile Church, and a remnant = a small part of something, and since the Church is in heaven at this time it is called a Remnant of HER SEED (Jesus). You will didge this also. (SMILE)

Whenever Daniel uses The Saints he is speaking about Jews which means ALL Israel because they all live in Judea, just like New Yorkers living in New York are New Yorkers. In Dan. 12:7 the Saints who get conquered by the Beast is referring to Jerusalem/Israel.

P.S. you will never win a debate with me about End Time Eschatology, its futile.

 

[ewq1938]

It all comes down to you just denying what you are reading. What you are reading does not fit where you think it should, so you just skip it and pretend that it's not there.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. THAT MEANS CHRIST HAS RETURNED. He shall reign for ever and ever. Armageddon is over. Judgement and time of the dead has arrived. Wrath is over.

How do you just skip this and pretend that it is not there????????????????

Because none of that supports what you are saying. Armageddon is not over at the 7th trump. It starts after the 6th vial and the vials only start pouring at the 7th trump. Christ is still in the sky when Armageddon is fought. He hasn't even touched the ground yet as he is freshly arrived from heaven.

 

[David in NJ]

Saints are not speaking of the Church, its mostly speaking generically about Israel. Why do you think in Rev. 17 John SPECIFICALLY calls those killed by the Harlot (All False Religion of ALL TIME) Saint AND Martyrs of Jesus? I just destroyed your thesis, I bet you didge this. SMILE.

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman(False Religion/Harlot) drunken with the blood of the saints, AND with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Elect in Matt. 24:31 is only Jews, the Church returns with Jesus, the Gentile converts are NOT PROTECTED and will be killed (Martyrs under the altar at the 5th Seal) as Rev. 12 shows us, Satan turns from the Woman (Israel) he can't get at and goes after the REMNANT (Church) of her SEED (Jesus is that seed read Gal. 3:16) who keep the Commandments of God AND have the Testimony of Christ Jesus, so this Remnant can't be the 1/3 (Zech. 13:8-9)of the Jews who repent, they are protected, AND it can't be the 2/3 of the Jews who do not repent because they do not have the Testimony of Jesus do they? So, this Remnant can ONLY BE the Remnant Gentile Church, and a remnant = a small part of something, and since the Church is in heaven at this time it is called a Remnant of HER SEED (Jesus). You will didge this also. (SMILE)

Whenever Daniel uses The Saints he is speaking about Jews which means ALL Israel because they all live in Judea, just like New Yorkers living in New York are New Yorkers. In Dan. 12:7 the Saints who get conquered by the Beast is referring to Jerusalem/Israel.

P.S. you will never win a debate with me about End Time Eschatology, its futile.

That is a horrific antichrist spirit that says "Saints are not speaking of the Church"

NEVER add to God's words - NEVER take away from God's words - NEVER presume yourself as a Apostle to speak for Christ

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 1:1

To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, - 1 Cor 1:2

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?
Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
1 Corinthians 6:1-3

Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. - Phil 4:21

 

[David in NJ]

No. Again. Here is the raptured Church in heaven.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The twenty four elders with crowns are PROOF that Jesus has returned. Jesus brings His rewards with Him when He returns, so obviously Jesus has returned and we see the Church in heaven in Revelation 5. You can pretend they are not there if you so choose.


If you had oil in your lamp you would sing a different tune. He is getting ready to come for His Church and you are completely unaware.


That will not happen as it is not in error. There are wise virgins and foolish virgins. He is coming soon. Get some oil in your lamp so you can see.

God just told you that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That's good enough for me. The seals are the final week when God turns His attention to His Chosen people. There is a reason that the Church is mentioned 19 times in the first 3 chapters, and then all goes silent about the Church until Rev 22. Certainly not proof, but a wise man would take notice.

It was explained. Those without lamp oil cannot see. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. That harvest is complete, Jesus has returned for the Church and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then it is the time of Jacobs trouble when the seals are opened. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. No crowns are given to them until the harvest at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view of the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Your Dilemma

Currently, you are unable to SEE from the Gospels, Acts, the Apostles that they NEVER once said pre-trib rapture of any kind.

You cannot find a single OT Prophecy or Event that declares a pre-trib rapture of the Saints.

the LORD Jesus Christ in Matthew specifically detailed when Romans 11:25-27 takes place but you cannot find it

Drum Roll Please.......................and you think you understand Revelation.....................................WINNER

 

[David in NJ]

No. Again. Here is the raptured Church in heaven.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The twenty four elders with crowns are PROOF that Jesus has returned. Jesus brings His rewards with Him when He returns, so obviously Jesus has returned and we see the Church in heaven in Revelation 5. You can pretend they are not there if you so choose.


If you had oil in your lamp you would sing a different tune. He is getting ready to come for His Church and you are completely unaware.


That will not happen as it is not in error. There are wise virgins and foolish virgins. He is coming soon. Get some oil in your lamp so you can see.

God just told you that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. That's good enough for me. The seals are the final week when God turns His attention to His Chosen people. There is a reason that the Church is mentioned 19 times in the first 3 chapters, and then all goes silent about the Church until Rev 22. Certainly not proof, but a wise man would take notice.

It was explained. Those without lamp oil cannot see. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. That harvest is complete, Jesus has returned for the Church and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then it is the time of Jacobs trouble when the seals are opened. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. No crowns are given to them until the harvest at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Here is that harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Here is another view of the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Your Dilemma

Currently, you are unable to SEE from the Gospels, Acts, the Apostles that they NEVER once said pre-trib rapture of any kind.

You cannot find a single OT Prophecy or Event that declares a pre-trib rapture of the Saints.

the LORD Jesus Christ specifically stated in Matthew when Romans 11:25-27 will take place and you cannot find it

Drum Roll Please.......................and you think you understand Revelation.....................................WINNER

 

[The Light]

Because none of that supports what you are saying. Armageddon is not over at the 7th trump. It starts after the 6th vial and the vials only start pouring at the 7th trump. Christ is still in the sky when Armageddon is fought. He hasn't even touched the ground yet as he is freshly arrived from heaven.

Do you not understand what the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord means? Christ has returned and set up His kingdom. How can you miss this?

 

[The Light]

Your Dilemma

Currently, you are unable to SEE from the Gospels, Acts, the Apostles that they NEVER once said pre-trib rapture of any kind.

LOL. You couldn't see a rapture if you were raptured. Please explain why Jesus says He will come again and receive us to Himself that where He is we may be also. Just like everything else, you can deny all you want. It doesn't change the truth.

John 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

You cannot find a single OT Prophecy or Event that declares a pre-trib rapture of the Saints.

LOL. Again.
Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

the LORD Jesus Christ in Matthew specifically detailed when Romans 11:25-27 takes place but you cannot find it

Drum Roll Please.......................and you think you understand Revelation.....................................WINNER

I told you I am not going to waste my time playing your game when you are afraid to answer any of my questions.
Where is Matthew 24 found in Revelation and What is the order of Revelation?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you not understand what the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord means? Christ has returned and set up His kingdom. How can you miss this?

I don't miss it. It isn't relevant to WHEN the wrath of God begins. The passage literally says the wrath of God comes at the 7th trump. How do you miss that? You have avoided it this entire time and every time we discussed this in the past.

 

[ewq1938]

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

That literally says they will be with Christ on the Earth because that is where he comes again to and that's where they will be with him. The second coming is to the Earth.

 

[David in NJ]

LOL. You couldn't see a rapture if you were raptured. Please explain why Jesus says He will come again and receive us to Himself that where He is we may be also. Just like everything else, you can deny all you want. It doesn't change the truth.

John 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


LOL. Again.
Song of Solomon
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.



I told you I am not going to waste my time playing your game when you are afraid to answer any of my questions.
Where is Matthew 24 found in Revelation and What is the order of Revelation?

LOL - this keeps getting better and BETTER

i NEVER disputed the 'Rapture' = Matthew 24: 29-31 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15

LOL - You told us that the Gospel (John ch14) does not apply to the Gentile Church but Jesus was only speaking to the Jews - LOLx100

Which is it now???