Walking In Faith By the Word of God!

[marks]

Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation.

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Not according to the Bible. Whatever conclusions you draw from the Bible will not be accurate if they do not agree with the other parts of the Bible.

Philippians 3:4-9 KJV
4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Not according to the Bible. Whatever conclusions you draw from the Bible will not be accurate if they do not agree with the other parts of the Bible.

Yes Indeed that's why it's written Isaiah 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Philippians 3:4-9 KJV
4) Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Much love!

First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

When I see people quoting Paul's writing concern the law, I can easily ask, which law? Because Paul talks about two different laws in his writing. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial laws, sometimes in the same verse. If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God, which is the Ten Commandments.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

I agree with the verses you quoted by Paul, but you have to really understand what Paul is talking about.
If you want to fellowship in the writing of Paul, that's cool, I can help break down what Paul is saying. But if not, that's fine as well.

 

[marks]

Yes Indeed that's why it's written Isaiah 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.




First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

When I see people quoting Paul's writing concern the law, I can easily ask, which law? Because Paul talks about two different laws in his writing. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial laws, sometimes in the same verse. If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God, which is the Ten Commandments.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

I agree with the verses you quoted by Paul, but you have to really understand what Paul is talking about.
If you want to fellowship in the writing of Paul, that's cool, I can help break down what Paul is saying. But if not, that's fine as well.

I'm happy to hear what you have to say. Though so many who start off with "Paul is hard to understand", well, keep that in mind as you study his letters, so many go on the negate his words with that as their reason.

You wrote,

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.


I'd ask this . . . What does a Christian's "felt preference" have to do with Biblical Doctrine? We simply need to recognize what is written, what is taught, and accept it for truth..

Another question . . . is this one of those passages which you think is hard to understand?

Romans 4:1-5 YLT
1) What, then, shall we say Abraham our father, to have found, according to flesh?
2) for if Abraham by works was declared righteous, he hath to boast—but not before God;
3) for what doth the writing say? 'And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him—to righteousness;'
4) and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;
5) and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned—to righteousness:

If you think you are working for righteousness, you think you are putting God into your debt, as though He owed you something. It's the one who is not working as if to make God a debtor, but the one who is believing, that's the one who's faith is accounted for righteousness.

Do you think that's not what is meant here?

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes Indeed that's why it's written Isaiah 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.




First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

When I see people quoting Paul's writing concern the law, I can easily ask, which law? Because Paul talks about two different laws in his writing. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial laws, sometimes in the same verse. If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God, which is the Ten Commandments.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

I agree with the verses you quoted by Paul, but you have to really understand what Paul is talking about.
If you want to fellowship in the writing of Paul, that's cool, I can help break down what Paul is saying. But if not, that's fine as well.

You make a valid point because those who justify sin , being a sinner always without a doubt quote Paul and never quote Jesus, Peter, James and John. Sin is always justified by many who misunderstand as you pointed out Paul's writings especially when it comes to Romans 7. But when they do that they also contradict Paul in other places even in the same book of Romans as if Romans 7 can be understood apart from Romans 6 and 8 which is the immediate context. Living in sin, making excuses for sinning is always because of a misunderstanding of Romans 7 as a man who is describing trying to please God under the law without the spirit in him.

hope this helps !!!

 

[bro.tan]

You make a valid point because those who justify sin , being a sinner always without a doubt quote Paul and never quote Jesus, Peter, James and John. Sin is always justified by many who misunderstand as you pointed out Paul's writings especially when it comes to Romans 7. But when they do that they also contradict Paul in other places even in the same book of Romans as if Romans 7 can be understood apart from Romans 6 and 8 which is the immediate context. Living in sin, making excuses for sinning is always because of a misunderstanding of Romans 7 as a man who is describing trying to please God under the law without the spirit in him.

hope this helps !!!

I agree, but not just Romans 7, but other verses of Paul. One of the most often quoted verses to try and do away with God’s Royal law comes from the writing of the Apostle Paul; (Rom. 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. Now people will take this one verse and run with it. Like you said, ignoring the writings of the others apostles and the prophets and the statements of even Jesus himself. Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.


I hope we on the same page here!

 

[bro.tan]

I'm happy to hear what you have to say. Though so many who start off with "Paul is hard to understand", well, keep that in mind as you study his letters, so many go on the negate his words with that as their reason.

You wrote,

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.


I'd ask this . . . What does a Christian's "felt preference" have to do with Biblical Doctrine? We simply need to recognize what is written, what is taught, and accept it for truth..

Another question . . . is this one of those passages which you think is hard to understand?

No....but other people will quote another place of Paul writing and confuse the laws.

Romans 4:1-5 YLT
1) What, then, shall we say Abraham our father, to have found, according to flesh?
2) for if Abraham by works was declared righteous, he hath to boast—but not before God;
3) for what doth the writing say? 'And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him—to righteousness;'
4) and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;
5) and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned—to righteousness:

If you think you are working for righteousness, you think you are putting God into your debt, as though He owed you something. It's the one who is not working as if to make God a debtor, but the one who is believing, that's the one who's faith is accounted for righteousness.

Do you think that's not what is meant here?

Much love!

In the days of Abraham was much different then the days of Moses. Now today is much different from both. The point is, no matter what generation we in and or how God establish his righteousness we must do. Jesus says in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Let's take a look at (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.


(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. Cain killed abel
before, thou shall not kill was written. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)


(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.


How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.


(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

 

[marks]

In the days of Abraham was much different then the days of Moses.

OK, we can talk about other things, but firstly, you've skirted my question. I quoted a passage, I wrote a brief synopsis, and I asked if you disagreed with my synopsis.

You will note this passage makes no mention of the Law, rather, working.

See below:

Another question . . . is this one of those passages which you think is hard to understand?

Romans 4:1-5 YLT
1) What, then, shall we say Abraham our father, to have found, according to flesh?
2) for if Abraham by works was declared righteous, he hath to boast—but not before God;
3) for what doth the writing say? 'And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him—to righteousness;'
4) and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;
5) and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned—to righteousness:

If you think you are working for righteousness, you think you are putting God into your debt, as though He owed you something. It's the one who is not working as if to make God a debtor, but the one who is believing, that's the one who's faith is accounted for righteousness.

Do you think that's not what is meant here?

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

OK, we can talk about other things, but firstly, you've skirted my question. I quoted a passage, I wrote a brief synopsis, and I asked if you disagreed with my synopsis.

You will note this passage makes no mention of the Law, rather, working.

See below:

Much love!

The passage did not mention the word law, but it doesn't mean that Abraham didn't keep the laws of God.

 

[bro.tan]

Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word.

(1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

 

[marks]

The passage did not mention the word law, but it doesn't mean that Abraham didn't keep the laws of God.

You seem alergic to my question, why is it you are unwilling to give a simple yes or no? Makes me wonder what's happening here.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

 

[bro.tan]

You seem alergic to my question, why is it you are unwilling to give a simple yes or no? Makes me wonder what's happening here.

Much love!

Well, we living in a world where people use the word of God to prove a point to only believe in one way
of being. For example "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). Notice we have faith and the Commandments (Law). So when you post Romans 4: 1-5, I felt I needed to add in the law (Commandments) because most people lean on faith and not the law, since we have grace, although grace started in the days of Noah. True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

 

[quietthinker]

I felt I needed to add in the law (Commandments) because most people lean on faith and not the law, since we have grace, although grace started in the days of Noah. True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

just to throw in a wobbly, does anyone actually obey the Law? I don't mean approve of it cognitively, I mean actually keep it as it is designed/ intended?

'We all offend in many things' James 3:2 tells us......and this is not just in the things we are aware of, it includes things that are not part of our conscious reality. In other words, the resultant conclusion is we all flunk it right from the outset.
.....'oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death' Romans 7:24.

How does God solve this because it appears we can't? ....'1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.' Romans 8:1

.....and what does 'walking according to the flesh' mean? I propose it means thinking/ believing we do/ can contribute to to God's grace by assuming our 'good works' carry merit.

There are plenty more questions relating to what is stated in these few verses, here are a few....like, who is in Christ Jesus and who is out?
.....and what are the qualifications for both ie, being in and being out?......and who/ what qualifies either?

 

[marks]

Well, we living in a world where people use the word of God to prove a point to only believe in one way
of being. For example "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). Notice we have faith and the Commandments (Law). So when you post Romans 4: 1-5, I felt I needed to add in the law (Commandments) because most people lean on faith and not the law, since we have grace, although grace started in the days of Noah. True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

You are still avoiding my question. But then I understand why. You cannot answer. It's like Jesus asking, I'll ask you a question, and if you answer me, I'll answer yours.

Of course He asked them about John's baptism, whether it was from Heaven. I've asked essentially if the words of that passage are true. If you answer yes, I'll reply, why do you not believe it? If you answer no, well, you'll have denied the teaching of the Bible.

You apparantly prefer to hold you your salvation purchased by law keeping, though you only have your opinions of your perceptions of yourself, so, that's not to much assurance, is it?

Much love!

 

[marks]

although grace started in the days of Noah.

Creation was an act of surpreme grace.

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

You are still avoiding my question. But then I understand why. You cannot answer. It's like Jesus asking, I'll ask you a question, and if you answer me, I'll answer yours.

Of course He asked them about John's baptism, whether it was from Heaven. I've asked essentially if the words of that passage are true. If you answer yes, I'll reply, why do you not believe it? If you answer no, well, you'll have denied the teaching of the Bible.

You apparantly prefer to hold you your salvation purchased by law keeping, though you only have your opinions of your perceptions of yourself, so, that's not to much assurance, is it?

Much love!

I believe I answer your question through scriptures and verses, if you can't see that then you and I are on two different path, reading the same book. You like to talk more then posting book, A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

This is my answer, this is what I have faith in, this is what I work on. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[marks]

I believe I answer your question through scriptures and verses,

Nope. It's a simple question I've asked, and you've avoided it just like they avoided Jesus' question. They refused to answer, and you will not answer.

I can guess though what your answer would be if you were honest. I would guess that you don't in fact believe the simple saying of that passage.

Romans 4 declares in no uncertain terms that we do not work for salvation. Plain, simple.

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

Nope. It's a simple question I've asked, and you've avoided it just like they avoided Jesus' question. They refused to answer, and you will not answer.

I can guess though what your answer would be if you were honest. I would guess that you don't in fact believe the simple saying of that passage.

Romans 4 declares in no uncertain terms that we do not work for salvation. Plain, simple.

Much love!

I figure you was using Romans 4: 1-5 to say that you need not work for salvation, when in fact Paul says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). You not understanding Paul writing thats why God had Peter to clearly warn people about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a handful of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

Paul is using Abraham in Romans 4: 1-5 to make a point of the faith you need, just like Paul wrote in Hebrews 11, about Abraham. (v.17) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Now here is the father of the faithful, and how did he show God the he had faith in him? By his works! This is merely saying that Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4). That's what Abraham did, and that was his works. Abraham didn't do the works of a Priest like in the days of Moses, in those days there were two laws given to Moses, they were the Commandments and the Sacrificial law. But the works Abraham did is what we must do, which is give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must repent and be taught "The Word", of God's and keep his Commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38).

 

[marks]

I figure you was using Romans 4: 1-5 to say that you need not work for salvation, when in fact Paul says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). You not understanding Paul writing

Please see below:

Hi, are you aware of the different words used in this place?

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you . . .

These words translated "work" in these two places are not the same, what can you tell me about them?

Much love!

Meanwhile,

You've continued to reply, so I know you want to seem to be answering, but you have not answered my so very simple questions.

Are you aware of the differences in these words, and, do you believe Romans 4 is true as written?

I've asked several times, and you continue to not answer.

Which really, that is an answer.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

κατεργάζεσθε
Transliteration: katergazesthe
Morphology: V-PMM/P-2P
Verb - Present Imperative Middle or Passive - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's no.: G2716 (κατεργάζομαι)
Meaning: To effect by labor, achieve, work out, bring about.

In Php-2:12--Work out (katergazesthe). Perfective use of kata (down) in composition, work on to the finish. This exhortation assumes human free agency in the carrying on the work of one’s salvation.
Work out your own salvation (τὴν ἑαυτῶν σωτηρίαν κατεργάζασθε).

Carry out “to the goal” (Bengel). Complete. See on Rom_7:8. Your own salvation. There is a saving work which God only can do for you; but there is also a work which you must do for yourselves. The work of your salvation is not completed in God's work in you.

God's work must be carried out by yourselves. “Whatever rest is provided by Christianity for the children of God, it is certainly never contemplated that it should supersede personal effort.

And any rest which ministers to indifference is immoral and unreal - it makes parasites and not men.

Just because God worketh in him, as the evidence and triumph of it, the true child of God works out his own salvation - works it out having really received it - not as a light thing, a superfluous labor, but with fear and trembling as a reasonable and indispensable service” (Drummond, “Natural Law in the Spiritual World,” p. 335).

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

ἐνεργῶν
Transliteration: energōn Who is the Energizer?
Morphology: V-PPA-NMS
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's no.: G1754 (ἐνεργέω)
Meaning: To work, to be operative, to be at work, to be made to work, accomplish; to work, display activity.
[energon]

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

“For God is He that works,” etc. The emphasis lies on Θεός for two reasons. First, in the matter of attaining salvation they have to do not with Paul, but with God. Second, they must enter upon this momentous course not lightly, but “with fear and trembling,” for if they miss the goal it means that they have deliberately rejected the purpose of God. This explains the connecting γάρ.—ὁ ἐνεργῶν. It seems always to have the idea of effective working.
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OH i see the question .

allow an answer . WORK OUT simply means OBEY HE who has saved us and works in us .

OBEY HIS SPIRIT .
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These two verses are pregnant with meaning, jam-packed with information as to what WE are to do, and what God is doing THROUGH us-and just now I will be blamed for "salvation by works"-it will be misconstrued.

Shalom my brother.
Johann.

Who needs Greek when one is in love?
There is a heart wooing us with unprecedented kindness and do we dissect the hand which strokes us?

Is it possible to miss the intent by majoring on the anatomy?