Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @RLT63 @n2thelight

1. We Christian's believe our gracious God, our Benefactor, produces
   1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)
      
      AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)
      
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
      
      
   2. beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
      "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)
      
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)
      
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9)
      
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
      
      
   3. beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)
      
      AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)
      
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
      
      
   4. beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
      
      AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)
      
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
      
      
   5. beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)
      
      AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus' words with thier saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)
      
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
      
      
   6. beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
      "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)
      
      AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7, see the phrase "love is from God" meaning God is the source of true love)
      
      AND John expands with his writing of "God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him" (1 John 4:16, see the phrase "one who abides in Love" is equivocated with "one who abides" "in God" which extends from God's exclusivity with "God is Love")
      
      SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Renniks]

Lord Jesus doesn't direct anger at Himself nor the killer's children, but the Lord does declare the rebelliousness of the self willed killers of the prophets with "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing" (Matthew 23:37).

What part of " not willing " don't you understand?
If God is directing everything according to his will, there's no such thing as " not willing" for a human. So either God is arguing with himself or free will is a reality.

 

[Kermos]

Nope. The " you" is a rebellious Jew, mad because God is using his rebellion to reach the gentiles.

Probably think Romans 9 is all about you, don't you, don't you? You're so vain!

You reject Paul's clear context in your first paragraph. Paul did not write "You, O Jew, will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Renniks' book of Second Guessing 9:18); on the other hand, Paul truly wrote "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19).

Paul declares God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).

Immediately after writing that God is in control Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'" (Romans 9:19) - herein resides the fault question.

Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.

Bringing these together:

Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "then, 'Only God can obey himself in your theology. They are just puppets for who resists His will?'" (the book of Second Guessing 9:18, everything from "Only" to "puppets" is verbatim from a free-willian's writing to me, and the words are represented very well within the Romans 9:19 context).

The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free will.

Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.

Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).

The "you" mocking is certain because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (Romans 9:20)

See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about fault and about God's will (in Romans 9:19).

Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.

The thing molded represents the "you".

The Molder represents God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!

Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" as adversary against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to free-willians based upon the content of free-willian philosophical writings.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Renniks]

You reject Paul's clear context in your first paragraph.

Ok let's see what Paul's context really is.
9 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

Paul's context is Israel. "One of you"? One of who?
He's talking from the beginning to Jews who knew the Torah.

 

[Kermos]

So?


Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will ...


Yet, according to YOU, Your whole point rests on People DO NOT HAVE FREEWILL.


And NOW you Contradict yourself.





You HAVE AGAIN Contradicted yourself.





Kermos, PAY ATTENTION...no one is in agreement WITH YOU.

AND WHY, is not secret...


YOU ACCUSE, and THEN SHOW YOUR OWN ACCUSATIONS ARE FALSE!

False. Discussing Scripture IS NOT ADDING TO SCRIPTURE!







God CREATED, BY FORMING.

God MAKES, BY IMPARTING.


God FORMED, A manKIND of thing, WITH a heart, organs, brain, blood, tissue, bones........EARS, NOSE, EYES, TONGUE, FLESH....


God IMPARTED, HIS BREATH OF LIFE INTO THE FORM....

....and the EARS/hears

....and the NOSE/smells

....and the EYES/see

....and the TONGUE/tastes, speaks

....and the FLESH/feels touch

...and the MIND/thinks




God IMPARTS, His Breath of Life, and I have never said otherwise.





YOU are OUT OF LINE.

Actually, many believe the Truth (John 14:6) that you cannot freewill choose Jesus.

In fact, most importantly Lord Jesus declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Out of your mouth (or however you input your posts) comes the treasure of your heart (Matthew 15:18), so in your heart you adulterate scripture to say that which scripture does not say according to you who enthusiastically declared publicly that you add to the Word of God as recorded at this post link! It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

I'm going to continue to reason on the scriptures and if I see something different than you are saying so be it. I'm not going to blindly believe what you say. It looks to me that unless someone agrees with you, you unfairly say they are adding to scripture. I don't agree with you and obviously when someone disagrees with you you past judgment on them, by saying they have added to scripture. Just remember to the rest of us human beings You're just another human being we don't see you as some infallible person who can't possibly be wrong about what you say. So I understand when another human being disagrees with me, but when someone judges someone else because they disagree with them, all I'm going to see them as is, judgmental people who obviously thinks people should just blindly believe them.

You do not believe the Scriptures, much less reason on the scriptures.

You wrote "you twist what someone says" about me in your previous post, but then you hypocritically twist what God says in your same previous post (specifically Genesis 1:26, just follow the back links)!

YOUR HYPOCRITICAL EXPLOITS ARE INCREASING, BARNEY BRIGHT.

Let me remind you of another post in another thread in which you had another bought of hypocrisy.

Like I said kermos, you're taking Philippians 2:3-6 out of context to teach your belief. That's all I'm going to acknowledge about you kermos is you will take a scripture out of context to prove your belief. I'm not going to agree with that. You think whatever you want about me. You're just an imperfect person, so judging me as an antichrist, I don't worry about kermos you judge me as though they're infallible. I don't worry about you judging me, especially when you're taking scripture out of context to prove you're belief. I'm going to go by the context of Philippians 2:3-6, not your belief. That's not going to change kermos. You think of me what you choose to and judge me all you want, it matters not to me.

Did you write "The scriptures at Philippians 2:3-6 says that even though Jesus was in Gods form he never considered himself equal to God"?

Why, as a matter of fact, yes you did, as recorded in post #305 in the "Jesus is God" thread.

According to your own measure (Matthew 7:2), BARNEY BRIGHT, you used Philippians 2:3-6 out of context because you restricted the context to "Paul was telling the members in the Philippian congregation to be humble and think others in the Philippian congregation were superior to them" (your scribe in the "Jesus is God" thread).

Did you know that you are a scribe? You are a scribe because you scribe your posts.

You are a hypocrite (Matthew 23:13) about miscontextual use of Philippians 2:3-6, and Jesus pronounces "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in" (Matthew 23:13).

I tell you that you changed Paul's words from being his words into your own antichrist words. Just look for the word "never" in the Philippians 2:3-6. You'll NEVER find the word "never" in an accurate translation.

You are intent on everlasting punishment for yourself (Matthew 25:46) because you deny Jesus (Matthew 10:33). For example, your heart wickedly subtracts that Paul refers to Lord Jesus as truly God in Philippians 2:6.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

And the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. Luke3:22
The Father is greater than I John14:28

Daydreamer, please see the thread on this site John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God? for edifying correspondence about that which you brought up.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

I'm repairing the thread consistency which BARNEY BRIGHT broke in his post, so here is the link to the post to which I think he replied.

I'm going to keep telling you kermos, that you're ignoring scripture. I'm not going to ignore what Philippians 2:3-6 is saying just because you do and you want me to. You can think and say want you want about me, you're the one ignoring scripture, not me. So you go ahead and say I'm ignoring scripture, all that shows me is how much a hypocrite you are because you're ignoring what Philippians 2:3-6 is saying.

I accurately point out the scripture that you ignore below, yet you fail to point out scripture that you claim I ignore!

You are ignoring that Paul wrote that Jesus "existed in the form of God" (Philippians 2:6), and God is always God. Verses 3-5 do NOT change the context of Paul proclaiming Jesus being truly God in verse 6 - and the Apostle declared that Jesus is also truly Man in the later part of Philippians 2:6.

Essentially, Paul wrote that Jesus being truly God did not keep Jesus truly Man from serving His brothers (Philippians 2:6-8).

Back to your "do as I say not as I do" position.

I addressed your question from your previous post, now how about you face the questions and answers below which have been presented to you previously.

Did you write "The scriptures at Philippians 2:3-6 says that even though Jesus was in Gods form he never considered himself equal to God"?

Why, as a matter of fact, yes you did, as recorded in post #305 in the "Jesus is God" thread, and you broke your context constraint to try to prove that Jesus is not God.

According to your own measure (Matthew 7:2), BARNEY BRIGHT, you used Philippians 2:3-6 out of context because you restricted the context to "Paul was telling the members in the Philippian congregation to be humble and think others in the Philippian congregation were superior to them" (your scribe in the "Jesus is God" thread - and repeated by you in your writings).

Did you know that you are a scribe? You are a scribe because you scribe your posts.

You are a hypocrite (Matthew 23:13) about miscontextual use of Philippians 2:3-6, and Jesus pronounces "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in" (Matthew 23:13).

I tell you that you changed Paul's words from being his words into your own antichrist words. Just look for the word "never" in the Philippians 2:3-6. You'll NEVER find the word "never" in an accurate translation.

You are intent on everlasting punishment for yourself (Matthew 25:46) because you deny Jesus (Matthew 10:33). For example, your heart wickedly subtracts that Paul refers to Lord Jesus as truly God in Philippians 2:6.

 

[Kermos]

Granting repentance doesn't equal no Free will.
If I grant you access to my drive way, you still have to decide to enter it not.

In a way, you provide two exhibits respecting your driveway as comparison to repentance.

Your driveway example is composed of "you granting me access to your driveway" (exhibit 1) and "whether I enter your driveway" (exhibit 2).

There's a HUGE difference between your driveway analogy against God imparting repentance.

With "God granting repentance" (Acts 11:18) (compare to your exhibit 1 above), we now move on to how a person gets into the repentant condition (this is the time before repentance for the person).

The kindness of God leads the person to repentance (Romans 2:4) (compare to your exhibit 2 above).

Paul says it quite well in different words with "you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death" (2 Corinthians 7:9-10) (again, compare to your exhibit 2 above).

Essentially, according to Paul, God takes the person to repentance and God places the person in a condition of repentance. YHWH God does it all to the glory of God!

Free will choice by the person does not exist according to the above Apostolic testimony. Free will choice is the person doing a work to the glory of the person.

Your driveway analogy is broken and inapplicable as a whole with relation to the Truth (John 14:6) of repentance.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of particular persons through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You are ignoring that Paul wrote that Jesus "existed in the form of God" (Philippians 2:6), and God is always God. Verses 3-5 do NOT change the context of Paul proclaiming Jesus being truly God in verse 6 - and the Apostle declared that Jesus is also truly Man in the later part of Philippians 2:6.

Verse 5 of Philippians chapter 2 is telling the Philippian congregation members to have the same attitude or same mindset that Jesus Christ had. So, Paul isn't telling the Philippian congregation members at verse 6 to think themselves equal to God. So many people today try to teach people regarding Philippian 2:6 that Jesus thought himself equal to God, but by saying that they ignore verse 5 which tells the Philippian congregation members to have the same thinking or mindset that Jesus had. I know for a fact Kermos that Philippians 2:6 isn't telling the Philippian congregation members to think themselves equal to God because as some teach that was the attitude or mindset of Jesus Christ. Philippian 2:6 isn't teaching that Jesus thought himself equal to God, even though Jesus was in God's form Kermos Jesus didn't think himself equal to God.

 

[Kermos]

Verse 5 of Philippians chapter 2 is telling the Philippian congregation members to have the same attitude or same mindset that Jesus Christ had. So, Paul isn't telling the Philippian congregation members at verse 6 to think themselves equal to God. So many people today try to teach people regarding Philippian 2:6 that Jesus thought himself equal to God, but by saying that they ignore verse 5 which tells the Philippian congregation members to have the same thinking or mindset that Jesus had. I know for a fact Kermos that Philippians 2:6 isn't telling the Philippian congregation members to think themselves equal to God because as some teach that was the attitude or mindset of Jesus Christ. Philippian 2:6 isn't teaching that Jesus thought himself equal to God, even though Jesus was in God's form Kermos Jesus didn't think himself equal to God.

In Philippians 2:5 Paul explains that the Philippians need to have the same attitude as Jesus.

Then in Philippians 2:6, Paul goes on to explain about Jesus specifically, that even though Jesus is God, the greatest Being, Jesus still serves the brothers.

Paul is telling the Philippians that the Philippians, not even being God but truly mere humans, are to love and serve the brothers.

I accurately point out the scripture that you ignore below, yet you fail to point out scripture that you claim I ignore!

You are ignoring that Paul wrote that Jesus "existed in the form of God" (Philippians 2:6), and God is always God. Verses 3-5 do NOT change the context of Paul proclaiming Jesus being truly God in verse 6 - and the Apostle declared that Jesus is also truly Man in the later part of Philippians 2:6.

Essentially, Paul wrote that Jesus being truly God did not keep Jesus truly Man from serving His brothers (Philippians 2:6-8).

Back to your "do as I say not as I do" position.

I addressed your question from your previous post, now how about you face the questions and answers below which have been presented to you previously.

Did you write "The scriptures at Philippians 2:3-6 says that even though Jesus was in Gods form he never considered himself equal to God"?

Why, as a matter of fact, yes you did, as recorded in post #305 in the "Jesus is God" thread, and you broke your context constraint to try to prove that Jesus is not God.

According to your own measure (Matthew 7:2), BARNEY BRIGHT, you used Philippians 2:3-6 out of context because you restricted the context to "Paul was telling the members in the Philippian congregation to be humble and think others in the Philippian congregation were superior to them" (your scribe in the "Jesus is God" thread - and repeated by you in your writings).

Did you know that you are a scribe? You are a scribe because you scribe your posts.

You are a hypocrite (Matthew 23:13) about miscontextual use of Philippians 2:3-6, and Jesus pronounces "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in" (Matthew 23:13).

I tell you that you changed Paul's words from being his words into your own antichrist words. Just look for the word "never" in the Philippians 2:3-6. You'll NEVER find the word "never" in an accurate translation.

You are intent on everlasting punishment for yourself (Matthew 25:46) because you deny Jesus (Matthew 10:33). For example, your heart wickedly subtracts that Paul refers to Lord Jesus as truly God in Philippians 2:6.

 

[Kermos]

Well as for me, it was not a choice but the one thing I had to get through... yet you are correct I have separated I apologize thank you but still im not selling my birthright for a bowl of bean soup like Esau did.

Then, since "it was not a choice", then it's not freewill.

Who carried you "through", you or God?

 

[Behold]

Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

Another Hyper Calvinist Thread teaching J. Calvin's heresy.

The Bible teaches something else.
The Bible teaches that Adam was made in God's Image. (likeness, like God).
So, if God has no free will, then neither did Adam.

Jesus told them..."if you do not BELIEVE in me, you will die in your sins".
Notice He didn't say....>"if you are not caused by God to believe in me, you will die in your sins".

Its amazing how J.Calvin's lies have so impacted and infected, so many people for a very long time.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Kermos said,
In Philippians 2:5 Paul explains that the Philippians need to have the same attitude as Jesus.

Then in Philippians 2:6, Paul goes on to explain about Jesus specifically, that even though Jesus is God, the greatest Being, Jesus still serves the brothers.

Paul is telling the Philippians that the Philippians, not even being God but truly mere humans, are to love and serve the brothers.[/QUOTE\]

Philippians 2:6 doesn't say, Jesus is God, it says, he was in God's form.

Philippians 2:5, 6 as translated in the New World Translation does not violate any rules of grammar, also this translation is in harmony with the teaching of the rest of the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and not God himself, not God Almighty. That Jesus Christ before his coming to earth did not possess equality with God can be proved by other translations of the Scriptures.

Such as, the Revised Standard Version published in 1952 reads: “Have this mind among yourselves, which you have in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.”

The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson published about a hundred years ago reads: “Let this disposition be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, though being in God’s form, yet did not meditate a usurpation to be like God.”

An American Translation published by Smith and Goodspeed reads: “Have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he possessed the nature of God, he did not grasp at equality with God.”

The New Testament in an Improved Version upon the basis of Archbishop Newcome’s new translation published in 1808 reads: “For let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus also: who, being in the form of God, did not eagerly grasp at the resemblance to God.”

The Emphasised Bible by J. Rotherham reads: “The same thing esteem in yourselves which also in Christ Jesus ye esteem, who in form of God subsisting, not a thing to be seized accounted the being equal with God.”

The Riverside New Testament translated by William G. Ballantine, D.D., reads: “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not think that equality with God was some thing to be grasped.”

I note that none of these translations that are here quoted says that Jesus possessed equality with God in heaven before becoming a man. He did not imitate the Devil’s example, who tried to make himself like God, to be equal with God. Other modern translations can be found to support the fact that Jesus never considered himself equal to God.The trouble with some translations that try to make it appear that Jesus possessed equality with God in heaven before becoming a man is that they insert the small pronoun “it” into their English translations, such as the King James Version: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought "it" not robbery to be equal with God.” The pronoun “it” is not in the original Greek.

You judge that I'm ignoring that Jesus was in God's form, but I'm not. You however will ignore that Philippians 2:6 is saying that Jesus never grasped at the idea that he was equal to God. But Philippians 2:6 is teaching us that Jesus thought his Father and God was superior to him although he was in God's form, and so each Philippian congregation member was to think fellow congregation members were superior to them. With this kind of humble attitude of each member not thinking he was superior to other congregation members, things like, heated arguments, debates, and egotism, would not be present in the congregation.

 

[Kermos]

The thoughts you mentioned are mainly your prospective, I don't totally agree with all your saying. Jesus chose some for a purpose that's clearly seen I agree. But there are others that no one can say for certain how they acquired such things except for One.

The mentioning of lying doesn't show any seasoning, if your correct then I would be ignorant and blind lying has nothing to do with lack of knowledge understanding.

Luke 9:49
…49“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.” 50“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

Matthew 27:57
57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus.

Notice that Jesus said "whoever is not against you is for you" (Luke 9:49); however, He didn't say "whoever is not against you is one of you".

BeyondET, Lord Jesus says "You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Just prior, Jesus talks about "I have called you friends" (John 15:15), so there's tight proximity to Jesus' exclusive choosing and friends of God.

Just after "I chose you", Jesus talks about His disciples bearing lasting fruit (John 15:16), so there's tight proximity to Jesus' exclusive choosing and fruit of the Spirit of God.

Jesus didn't halt there about choosing, though. In the continuing passage, Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), so there is Jesus emphasizing His exclusive choosing and His disciples salvation.

BeyondET, here it is that God gives me absolute confidence that no person chooses Jesus for the Word of God expresses His wonderful love for His creatures with "You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The Sovereign King's love for we who could not even recognize King Jesus apart from His merciful Power bestowed upon us (John 3:3, John 15:5) is massively humbling.

By God's grace, for God's glory.

I did not forget that you wrote:

as for me, it was not a choice

Your sentence "there are others that no one can say for certain how they acquired such things except for One" has already been addressed by the One, even before you wrote the sentence.

God bless you, BeyondET.

 

[BeyondET]

Notice that Jesus said "whoever is not against you is for you" (Luke 9:49); however, He didn't say "whoever is not against you is one of you".

BeyondET, Lord Jesus says "You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Just prior, Jesus talks about "I have called you friends" (John 15:15), so there's tight proximity to Jesus' exclusive choosing and friends of God.

Just after "I chose you", Jesus talks about His disciples bearing lasting fruit (John 15:16), so there's tight proximity to Jesus' exclusive choosing and fruit of the Spirit of God.

Jesus didn't halt there about choosing, though. In the continuing passage, Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), so there is Jesus emphasizing His exclusive choosing and His disciples salvation.

BeyondET, here it is that God gives me absolute confidence that no person chooses Jesus for the Word of God expresses His wonderful love for His creatures with "You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:16).

The Sovereign King's love for we who could not even recognize King Jesus apart from His merciful Power bestowed upon us (John 3:3, John 15:5) is massively humbling.

By God's grace, for God's glory.

I did not forget that you wrote:



Your sentence "there are others that no one can say for certain how they acquired such things except for One" has already been addressed by the One, even before you wrote the sentence.

God bless you, BeyondET.

Who is part of the body, only the chosen disciples wouldn't the man driving out demons in His name be apart of the others?

The issue is the deciples already believed in Him before John 15:16 statement. It was leading up to the end and thus stating another thing to do.

John 15:16 is not a salvation statement. Yanking it out of context.

This woman was not chosen to touch

Luke 8
44She came up behind Jesus and touched the fringe of His cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped.

45“Who touched Me?” Jesus asked.

But they all denied it. “Master,” said Peter, “the people are crowding and pressing against You.”

46But Jesus declared, “Someone touched Me, for I know that power has gone out from Me.”

47Then the woman, seeing that she could not escape notice, came trembling and fell down before Him. In the presence of all the people, she explained why she had touched Him and how she had immediately been healed.

48“Daughter,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you. Go in peace.”

 

[BeyondET]

Speaking of 12 only a handful is mentioned beyond names, no information about them is known just a name.

 

[Kermos]

Who is part of the body, only the chosen disciples wouldn't the man driving out demons in His name be apart of the others?

The issue is the deciples already believed in Him before John 15:16 statement. It was leading up to the end and thus stating another thing to do.

John 15:16 is not a salvation statement. Yanking it out of context.

This woman was not chosen to touch

Luke 8
44She came up behind Jesus and touched the fringe of His cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped.

45“Who touched Me?” Jesus asked.

But they all denied it. “Master,” said Peter, “the people are crowding and pressing against You.”

46But Jesus declared, “Someone touched Me, for I know that power has gone out from Me.”

47Then the woman, seeing that she could not escape notice, came trembling and fell down before Him. In the presence of all the people, she explained why she had touched Him and how she had immediately been healed.

48“Daughter,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you. Go in peace.”

Not necessarily, but possibly, the man driving out demons in His name might be a part of the others or he might not be a part of the others. See the account the about 12 disciples who were baptized into John's baptism in Acts 19:1-7 as well as the account of Simon in Acts 8:9-24.

Moving on to your sentence "The issue is the deciples already believed in Him before John 15:16 statement" (emphasis from your original).

Let's focus on "believed".

The wellspring, even the very source for belief/faith in disciples is an act of God because Lord Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Faith/belief is not a work of man, not even manipulated by man (Ephesians 2:8-10), so man has no choice in the matter of faith/belief.

Jesus' disciples are chosen by Jesus for friendship, fruit, belief/faith, and salvation.

Did you know that "your faith" in Luke 8:48 is truly "the faith of you"?

Did you know that all similar vein occurrences, such as "his faith", are likewise, such as "the faith of him"?

Consider the phrase "the God of you", now reflect on the phrase "the faith of you".

The "you" in the phrases does NOT control God nor faith.

In reality, faith/belief controls us disciples because God's working in us to will and to work for God's good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

God controls us Christians by God's grace for God's glory.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

Not necessarily, but possibly, the man driving out demons in His name might be a part of the others or he might not be a part of the others. See the account the about 12 disciples who were baptized into John's baptism in Acts 19:1-7 as well as the account of Simon in Acts 8:9-24.

Moving on to your sentence "The issue is the deciples already believed in Him before John 15:16 statement" (emphasis from your original).

Let's focus on "believed".

The wellspring, even the very source for belief/faith in disciples is an act of God because Lord Jesus says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Faith/belief is not a work of man, not even manipulated by man (Ephesians 2:8-10), so man has no choice in the matter of faith/belief.

Jesus' disciples are chosen by Jesus for friendship, fruit, belief/faith, and salvation.

Did you know that "your faith" in Luke 8:48 is truly "the faith of you"?

Did you know that all similar vein occurrences, such as "his faith", are likewise, such as "the faith of him"?

Consider the phrase "the God of you", now reflect on the phrase "the faith of you".

The "you" in the phrases does NOT control God nor faith.

In reality, faith/belief controls us disciples because God's working in us to will and to work for God's good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

God controls us Christians by God's grace for God's glory.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Again you portray John 6:29 is talking about giving someone faith. When the work of God is the one He sent not about giving anybody faith.

3 things Jesus didn't know.

1. Who was driving out demons in His name.
2. Who touched His garment.
3. The day nor hour of His return.

 

[Kermos]

Again you portray John 6:29 is talking about giving someone faith. When the work of God is the one He sent not about giving anybody faith.

3 things Jesus didn't know.

1. Who was driving out demons in His name.
2. Who touched His garment.
3. The day nor hour of His return.

Look again at the semantics, BeyondET. Jesus did not say "This is the work of God, that God sent Him whom He has sent" recorded in John 6:29.

The phrase "that you believe" in John 6:29 inextricably adheres to "the work of God" in John 6:29.

Truly, Jesus says that His hearers believing is the work of God when He says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

So, you preach that Jesus who knows all things (John 16:30) does not know all things based on your pretenses:

1. that Jesus said “Who touched Me because I don't know who touched Me?" but wait Jesus didn't say that, rather Jesus says "Who touched Me?” (Luke 8:45). Jesus uses the question in a display of His grandeur and a learning encounter for His disciples as opposed to lack of knowledge.

2. that Jesus was clueless about the identity of the person casting out demons because you project that Jesus ssid “Do not stop him for whoever that guy is, he is not against you because he is for you” but wait Jesus didn't say that, rather Jesus says “Do not stop him for whoever is not against you is for you” (Luke 9:50). Jesus uses "whoever" as a generalization as opposed to lack of knowledge.

3. Jesus reveals Himself as truly God and truly Man at His discretion.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Based on this Truth (John 14:6), Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as Man at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Furthermore. Jesus Christ can refer to Himself as God at his discretion and when He deems it is appropriate.

Here is an instance of Jesus, truly God, saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of God thus including both the person of Jesus and the person of the Father in the One True God.

Here is another instance, this time of Jesus, truly Man, saying "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (John 20:17) in which Jesus speaks in His capacity of Man thus including the person of Jesus and His brothers in one (John 17:21). See, the Son of Man being the firstborn of the born of God persons (Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, John 3:3-8).

When Jesus says "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38), then according to the Jesus, truly Man, Jesus does the will of the Father who sent the Son.

When Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58), then according to the Jesus, truly God, Jesus exists in eternity past which means Jesus is uncreated thus Jesus proclaims that Jesus is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

We, children of God, can also refer to Jesus in his capacity as truly God as well as His capacity as truly Man. We can use context to make the distinction.

We, born of the Holy Spirit of God persons (John 3:3-8), are one in God (John 17:21) because of the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17), thus God is One. We are the blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God's work in us.

People who do not believe that Jesus is God are people who are not blessed beneficiaries of the Holy Spirit of God, so such people cannot see the Kingdom of God nor even King Jesus (John 3:3-8) for Who He is. You do not believe that Jesus is God.

Jesus is "I AM" before Jesus was begotten.

Jesus, truly God, always exists "before Abraham" as "I AM" (John 8:58) prior to Mary being told the beget event of Jesus, truly Man, prophecy by Gabriel "you will conceive in your womb and bear a Son" (Luke 1:34).

Hmm, does Jesus truly Man not know the hour? Does Jesus truly God not know the hour?

God controls us Christians by God's grace for God's glory.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.