Was James confused?

[pia]

so you say, but it is me arguing for the deception of belief and pointing out how belief is not synonymous with faith, even though they can be made into synonyms, and it is you telling me that pistis and paradiso+ are the same thing, right

I agree with you here.....We believe until we SEE....That is Faith....We don't need to believe what we have already seen..... Then we KNOW

 

[FHII]

I agree with you here.....We believe until we SEE....That is Faith....We don't need to believe what we have already seen..... Then we KNOW

Rom 8...

"...for we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, then with patience we wait for it"

 

[pia]

Rom 8...

"...for we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that which we see not, then with patience we wait for it"

Excellent ! Thanks

 

[tabletalk]

I agree with you here.....We believe until we SEE....That is Faith....We don't need to believe what we have already seen..... Then we KNOW

And you "KNOW" because you have seen Him, you say. So, you don't walk by faith/belief in Jesus because you have already seen Jesus?
Would you say He has been revealed to you, as described in the verses below?

1 John 3:2
"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

1 Peter 1:8
"...whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,.."

 

[Stranger]

I would like you to have a look at Romans 4. Paul equates the law with works. BUT even in that chapter he speaks of works in relation to Abraham (who of course, wasn't under the law).

So there is support for your statement both ways. My conclusion is that by trying to keep the law for the purpose of salvation you are doing works. But it isn't limited to the law. Without putting a whole lot of thought into it, the works we are not saved by through faith is anything that you in your heart are trying to do to secure salvation or try to prove your faith.

I understand what you are saying and believe we are on the same page. When I say 'works' and 'law' are not the same thing it is because we as believers do works also which are a product of our faith. Paul in (Rom. 4:2) is speaking of works as a product of the law to be justified, or brought from a lost condition to a saved condition. That these are works of law is clear from (Rom. 4:13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, thorough the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

Though Abraham was not under the Mosaic Law, there is always law. (Rom.2:14-15) "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness...." So, though Abraham had no Mosaic law, he could be just as legalistic as a Pharisee by claiming to have obtained salvation by some work of law....by obtaining it as though he earned it through something he did. For example when he left Ur of the Chaldees. He could have said he obtained salvation at that moment by believing God and heading to the promised land. And I think faith was definitely involved on his part. But if that moment were chosen to declare Abraham righteous, then he and others could and would perceive that they earned it. And it would have been a salvation by law. Thus God waited till Abraham and Sarah were too old and could do nothing but believe a promise from God. (Gen. 15: 6), making it salvation by faith alone.

And this is exactly why Paul starts (Rom 4) as he does. (4:1-2) "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God." If Abraham had been justified by a work of law he would glory or boast of it. But, such a thing is detestable to God.

This is why Paul is not just talking about just the Mosaic Law in (Rom 3:21). "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,..." It is any law. Any meritorious work to earn salvation is a work of law.

But then we know also that we have works as believers that we do which are accepted of God. These would be works as a result of our faith. Our works of law are rejected and our works out of faith are received. Are not both spoken of in (Eph. 2:8-10)? "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

So I believe there are two types of works. One under law, one under faith. One is for reward and earn. One is in response to what has been done for us. Perhaps this is what Paul means in (Rom.3:27) where he speaks of a law of works and a law of faith.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

What is sanctification? Is it not to be set apart or to set ourselves apart?
What does Paul mean in this verse?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

That is a higher price than most people are willing to pay, no matter what they may say to the contrary. Jesus did it, did he not, when he laid down his life for us. We want to be like him, but how willing are we to really follow him to the literal cross of suffering and pain and death?

We have not been given literal torture and death as our future at this point, but if God puts it to us as our way to continue on His Way, could we do it? For me, I continue to pray each day that He will make me ready for whatever He has for me so that when it comes, I will be ready for it. What else could we do.

Is there also no cost to enter in...? What bars the entrance but a flaming sword [Gen 3:24]? How can a person get past that sword? Jesus made it possible, but can just any unprepared unbelieving person walk on in...?

Amadeus,
There is no cost to getting in.

You've stated sanctification exactly.
There is a cost to be paid.
The cost is bearable though.
Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
That's because we have the Holy Spirit to help us along the stoney path.

But getting IN is justification.
God justifies -- we can do nothing to justify ourselves.
This is salvation: Ephesians 2:8
We are justified, or saved, by grace through faith in Christ.

So one is free.
And one has a price.

And, of course, yes, sanctification means being set apart for service to God. We serve God, this is why sanctification is a cooperation between God and man, whereas as justification is wholly on God's part.

 

[GodsGrace]

The kingdom would be a good thread. I guarantee you no one would change their mind, but it would be a good thread. I encourage you to do it.

I never intend to change anyone's mind. Only God could do that.
It's good to exchange ideas however. One waters, one plants...it could apply to our discussions too. It's good to think things through, make sure you believe what you believe...

You are correct in that there are no laws in the kingdom that I wouldn't want to do. But then, there are no laws in the Mosaic law that I wouldn't want to do. My problem is law...or, my ability to keep it.

Law and the ability to keep it...
WHO keeps it? Only Jesus has kept the Law.
There is none righteous, no not one.
We all break the law, but we there is no condemnation for those that love and serve the Lord. Do you think He doesn't know we'll be sinning?
But some will take this to mean that it's OK to sin.
May it never be!
1 John 1
We SHOULDN'T sin, but if we DO sin, we have a high pries and advocate, Jesus.

Seems to me you have a problem with the word LAW. Think of it as commandments then. Jesus DID say to follow His commandments. I believe I already posted John 15:14.

Also, think of this. Jesus didn't say He came to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. What does fulfill mean anyway??
It DOES NOT mean how we think of it today.
"I have come to fulfill my duties". This means I've done them and I no longer have to do them.

Fulfill in the N.T. means to make more complete, to explain better -- I'm sure you know this.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, Mathew 5:17, He meant to make it MORE COMPLETE. To do what was righteous.

NOW, if we just hate our brother we've already killed him.
Mathew 5:22 Jesus has fulfilled, or made the Law more complete.
He has brought it the the HEART LEVEL.

Or Mathew 5:28 same idea. Jesus brings everything to the heart level. He actually made following the law more difficult, not less difficult. Mathew 5:20

It BECOMES less difficult because He left and sent the Holy Spirit to help us.
Luke 24:49
John 16:7
Acts 1:8

This is from "torahthesource.com":
It speaks about what Jesus meant when John the baptist told Him that he does not need baptizing.
Mathew 3:15
Jesus said that He was to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness..thus, He WAS TO BE BAPTIZED. This did NOT mean, that NO ONE was ever to be baptized again ...

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.nO3rRqSMB3iv1ovXSEg2-QEsC7&pid=15.1

You say 'rules do not negate grace'. If those rules are required for you to stay in the position grace has brought you in, then they do negate grace.

God is grace.
Grace saves us.
God is continually offering us His grace.
But Jesus said to follow His commandments.
Was He not God?
How to understand this?
There is a think red line, as you've said.

Perhaps James said it best: Faith without works is dead.
Works are a result of our faith. So if we are not willing to do works, perhaps our faith is dead?

Jesus Himself said that our works WILL be judged.
John 5:28-29 says it the best although there are many verses even in Mathew.

Let's see this in human terms. I have a cat. I love him and treat him really well and pour all my "grace" out on him. All I ask if that he does not scratch me. He keeps scratching me. Can my grace go on forever?
We like to say that God's love is unconditional.
It does have a condition. He insists that we obey Him. From Genesis 1...

I don't think 'works' and 'law' are the same thing. Because, we have works under grace which are not the product of keeping the law. So, we don't need to choose between 'grace' and 'works'. But I believe we do need to choose between 'grace' and 'law'.

JESUS said He did not come to abolish the Law.
We are not UNDER GRACE as per the New Covenant.
But we are still to follow the Laws of God, or the commandments Jesus left us with.

You need BOTH. Otherwise, if you can choose grace, and negate Law, it would mean we could sin all we want to and it wouldn't matter!
Even Paul, who is the grace preacher, proclaims we cannot sin.
In Romans 13 and 1 Corinthians 5 he tells us what NOT TO DO.
The opposite is what WE MUST DO..

Concerning the marriage relationship, what are the rules? In other words, what rule would one spouse break that would cause the other to say, you're outta here.

Different for different couples. But rules do exist. Sounds like you're not married!

Maybe if a husband slapped a wife ONCE out of extreme frustration it could even be forgiven. What if he did it every day?
Maybe he could have an affair once, but what if it happened all the time?
Laws must be kept even in a marriage or the love diminishes.

The commandments Jesus refers to in (John 14:15) are not the Mosaic Commandments. First and foremost of these is, (John 13:34) "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Now Jesus has said this is a new commandment. This means it is not the same as the law which says, 'love thy neighbor as thyself'. This is love for the brethren and sistren in Christ. This commandment is overall to anything else Christ commands to the believer now. See (John 14:31), (John 15:12,17)

Love covers a multitude of sin.
This new law covers all the others, incl the decalogue.
In John 13 He was speaking specifically to the disciples and telling them that they should love one another and that by that shall all men know that they are disciples of Christ.

But I do understand this to be for ALL disciples, even us.
So in John 14:15 when Jesus uses commandments in the plural (and in other places) which commandment(s) did He mean?

He said in Mathew 7:19 that every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down. Which good fruit was He talking about?

Future instructions would be given to the Church by the Holy Spirit. (John 16:13) And these would later be revealed through the New Testament writers, most especially Paul.

Stranger

What future instructions?

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand what you are saying and believe we are on the same page. When I say 'works' and 'law' are not the same thing it is because we as believers do works also which are a product of our faith. Paul in (Rom. 4:2) is speaking of works as a product of the law to be justified, or brought from a lost condition to a saved condition. That these are works of law is clear from (Rom. 4:13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, thorough the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

Though Abraham was not under the Mosaic Law, there is always law. (Rom.2:14-15) "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness...." So, though Abraham had no Mosaic law, he could be just as legalistic as a Pharisee by claiming to have obtained salvation by some work of law....by obtaining it as though he earned it through something he did. For example when he left Ur of the Chaldees. He could have said he obtained salvation at that moment by believing God and heading to the promised land. And I think faith was definitely involved on his part. But if that moment were chosen to declare Abraham righteous, then he and others could and would perceive that they earned it. And it would have been a salvation by law. Thus God waited till Abraham and Sarah were too old and could do nothing but believe a promise from God. (Gen. 6), making it salvation by faith alone.

And this is exactly why Paul starts (Rom 4) as he does. (4:1-2) "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God." If Abraham had been justified by a work of law he would glory or boast of it. But, such a thing is detestable to God.

This is why Paul is not just talking about just the Mosaic Law in (Rom 3:21). "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,..." It is any law. Any meritorious work to earn salvation is a work of law.

But then we know also that we have works as believers that we do which are accepted of God. These would be works as a result of our faith. Our works of law are rejected and our works out of faith are received. Are not both spoken of in (Eph. 2:8-10)? "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

So I believe there are two types of works. One under law, one under faith. One is for reward and earn. One is in response to what has been done for us. Perhaps this is what Paul means in (Rom.3:27) where he speaks of a law of works and a law of faith.

Stranger

Two thoughts:

1. Obedience to the Law
Obedience of Faith

We are under obedience of Faith.
We work because we have faith,
not TO GET faith.

2. I'd say Abraham was "saved" when he left Ur.
Why? Because for him to leave Ur he would have had to have faith in the one telling him to leave --- God.
Faith in God = Salvation.

Isaac PROVED he had faith, perhaps to himself since God knew.
But I do believe he was saved at Ur.

 

[Stranger]

I never intend to change anyone's mind. Only God could do that.
It's good to exchange ideas however. One waters, one plants...it could apply to our discussions too. It's good to think things through, make sure you believe what you believe...


Law and the ability to keep it...
WHO keeps it? Only Jesus has kept the Law.
There is none righteous, no not one.
We all break the law, but we there is no condemnation for those that love and serve the Lord. Do you think He doesn't know we'll be sinning?
But some will take this to mean that it's OK to sin.
May it never be!
1 John 1
We SHOULDN'T sin, but if we DO sin, we have a high pries and advocate, Jesus.

Seems to me you have a problem with the word LAW. Think of it as commandments then. Jesus DID say to follow His commandments. I believe I already posted John 15:14.

Also, think of this. Jesus didn't say He came to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. What does fulfill mean anyway??
It DOES NOT mean how we think of it today.
"I have come to fulfill my duties". This means I've done them and I no longer have to do them.

Fulfill in the N.T. means to make more complete, to explain better -- I'm sure you know this.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, Mathew 5:17, He meant to make it MORE COMPLETE. To do what was righteous.

NOW, if we just hate our brother we've already killed him.
Mathew 5:22 Jesus has fulfilled, or made the Law more complete.
He has brought it the the HEART LEVEL.

Or Mathew 5:28 same idea. Jesus brings everything to the heart level. He actually made following the law more difficult, not less difficult. Mathew 5:20

It BECOMES less difficult because He left and sent the Holy Spirit to help us.
Luke 24:49
John 16:7
Acts 1:8

This is from "torahthesource.com":
It speaks about what Jesus meant when John the baptist told Him that he does not need baptizing.
Mathew 3:15
Jesus said that He was to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness..thus, He WAS TO BE BAPTIZED. This did NOT mean, that NO ONE was ever to be baptized again ...

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.nO3rRqSMB3iv1ovXSEg2-QEsC7&pid=15.1


God is grace.
Grace saves us.
God is continually offering us His grace.
But Jesus said to follow His commandments.
Was He not God?
How to understand this?
There is a think red line, as you've said.

Perhaps James said it best: Faith without works is dead.
Works are a result of our faith. So if we are not willing to do works, perhaps our faith is dead?

Jesus Himself said that our works WILL be judged.
John 5:28-29 says it the best although there are many verses even in Mathew.

Let's see this in human terms. I have a cat. I love him and treat him really well and pour all my "grace" out on him. All I ask if that he does not scratch me. He keeps scratching me. Can my grace go on forever?
We like to say that God's love is unconditional.
It does have a condition. He insists that we obey Him. From Genesis 1...


JESUS said He did not come to abolish the Law.
We are not UNDER GRACE as per the New Covenant.
But we are still to follow the Laws of God, or the commandments Jesus left us with.

You need BOTH. Otherwise, if you can choose grace, and negate Law, it would mean we could sin all we want to and it wouldn't matter!
Even Paul, who is the grace preacher, proclaims we cannot sin.
In Romans 13 and 1 Corinthians 5 he tells us what NOT TO DO.
The opposite is what WE MUST DO..


Different for different couples. But rules do exist. Sounds like you're not married!

Maybe if a husband slapped a wife ONCE out of extreme frustration it could even be forgiven. What if he did it every day?
Maybe he could have an affair once, but what if it happened all the time?
Laws must be kept even in a marriage or the love diminishes.


Love covers a multitude of sin.
This new law covers all the others, incl the decalogue.
In John 13 He was speaking specifically to the disciples and telling them that they should love one another and that by that shall all men know that they are disciples of Christ.

But I do understand this to be for ALL disciples, even us.
So in John 14:15 when Jesus uses commandments in the plural (and in other places) which commandment(s) did He mean?

He said in Mathew 7:19 that every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down. Which good fruit was He talking about?



What future instructions?

Indeed, none of us can keep the law. And the law does not recognize our 'trying'to keep it.

Jesus did fulfill the law. I believe we have answered what fulfill means already. I don't think it means 'more complete'. It means Jesus has fufilled all that the Law says. For it all spake of Him. For us Christians however, the law has been removed from having any legal force over us. (2 Cor. 3:11) Read also (2 Cor. 3:7-10).

I know it is often said that some believe grace means it is ok to sin. But I have never met a believer who has said that or acted like that. I have found that usually, because a believer takes a certain doctrinal position, he will be accused of saying that, when in reality he isn't. This occurred with Paul. He preached grace. (Rom.5:21) And he knew his preaching of grace would cause people to say they can sin all they want. (Rom. 6:1) But he told them "God forbid". (6:2) But he still preached grace. I find myself when I listen to a preacher or Bible teacher trying to see if I could accuse them of seeming to say 'I can sin all I want' by the grace that is in their message. Most always it is an emphatic no. So, I believe, that if you haven't taught or preached grace to the degree that you can be accused of telling people they can sin all they want, then you haven't yet preached grace.

You said, "God is grace", and then "But Jesus said follow His commandments." These commandments cannot be the Mosaic Law. (John 1:17) "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Paul certainly provides what we as believers need under the New Covenant and gives in many places how we are to act. But he is not giving it as law. There is no 'thou shalt' or 'thou shalt' not. His appeal to our obedience is usually based on who we are in Christ. (Rom.12:1) "I beseech you therefore, brethren..."

As to future instructions, that which Christ revealed to Paul and the other disciples who wrote the New Testament. But most especially to Paul.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Two thoughts:

1. Obedience to the Law
Obedience of Faith

We are under obedience of Faith.
We work because we have faith,
not TO GET faith.

2. I'd say Abraham was "saved" when he left Ur.
Why? Because for him to leave Ur he would have had to have faith in the one telling him to leave --- God.
Faith in God = Salvation.

Isaac PROVED he had faith, perhaps to himself since God knew.
But I do believe he was saved at Ur.

I failed to give the chapter in my second paragraph showing where Abraham was declared righteous by God. I have since edited it. It is (Gen. 15:6). And here you can see that it was not when Abraham left Ur that he was declared righteous by God. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

I believe also that Abraham had faith when he left Ur. But it was a faith with a work attached and so God did not count that faith for righteousness.

Was he saved at Ur? At this stage I would say he was definitely going to be saved.

Stranger

 

[KBCid]

"Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set." Prov 22:28
Who are the "fathers" in that verse and from whom did they get their direction?
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
Every time we lead without being properly led, we are already in trouble.

The landmark is the original scriptures inspired by God (through the fathers) as it is written. At best we can be a road sign pointing to the landmark for those who have not received the helper.

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus,
There is no cost to getting in.

You've stated sanctification exactly.
There is a cost to be paid.
The cost is bearable though.
Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
That's because we have the Holy Spirit to help us along the stoney path.

But getting IN is justification.
God justifies -- we can do nothing to justify ourselves.
This is salvation: Ephesians 2:8
We are justified, or saved, by grace through faith in Christ.

So one is free.
And one has a price.

And, of course, yes, sanctification means being set apart for service to God. We serve God, this is why sanctification is a cooperation between God and man, whereas as justification is wholly on God's part.

The gift of God came through Jesus. Jesus paid that price which made entrance possible. Without Him no one would have the means to pass by the flaming sword. But, we still need to have the faith to do it. The verse you cited still requires faith. We need faith to start and faith to continue and faith until faith is at end for us. Before the end, can we ever take a step toward God without faith?

 

[amadeus]

The landmark is the original scriptures inspired by God (through the fathers) as it is written. At best we can be a road sign pointing to the landmark for those who have not received the helper.

Very good then...

 

[KBCid]

a point might be that the same thing happens with Bible translations, however, and actually i think ol' Noah was a theologian too, "Noah Webster, the Father of American Christian education," etc, was noah webster a theologian - Google Search

You both may want to know this;

In 1807, Webster began work on a definitive American dictionary that would standardize American English and help unify the American nation. The American Dictionary of the English Language was published in 1828, when Webster was 70, and it defined about 70,000 words (12,000 of which had never before appeared in a dictionary). The American Dictionary is packed with about 6,000 quotations from the Bible, and this is one of the many ways that the American people of that time were steeped in Scripture.....

.....In 1847, George and Charles Merriam purchased the rights to Webster’s dictionary from the lexicographer’s estate. Ten years later, they hired a German scholar, D.A.F. Mahn, to edit Webster’s definitions and enlarge the work. The result was the 1859 edition of the American Dictionary of the English Language. The number of words doubled to 140,000, but Webster’s religious definitions and biblical quotations were largely removed. In 1864, Noah Porter was hired by the Merriams to further enlarge and secularize the dictionary, which was published as the Webster’s International Dictionary in 1890. These subsequent editions, such as the Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, are entirely secular.
Noah Webster: A Great American

 

[KBCid]

he was justified by his works, but one could hardly call them works of the law, is a point there.

You sir have recognized the correct point.
The sacrificial laws were a temporary covering until Christ came to fulfill their prophetic meaning. Once Christ came he fulfilled what those old works of the law were being used for.

 

[bbyrd009]

Here's the link:

Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

[4102 (pistis) in secular antiquity referred to a guarantee (warranty). In Scripture, faith is God's warranty, certifying that the revelation He inbirthed will come to pass (His way).

Faith (4102/pistis) is also used collectively – of all the times God has revealed (given the persuasion of) His will, which includes the full revelation of Scripture (Jude 3). Indeed, God the Lord guarantees that all of this revelation will come to pass! Compare Mt 5:18 with 2 Tim 3:16.]

1. The root of 4102/pistis ("faith") is 3982/peithô ("to persuade, be persuaded") which supplies the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).

Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.

ok, that is part of the link, anyway...the deception of "belief" is likely brought out more in the rest of it, or in the other ones...


More on what faith is . . . and isn't

1. In Scripture, faith and belief are not exactly the same. Faith always comes from God and involves His revelation therefore faith is beyond belief!

from pistis, and contrast this from paradidomi,

paradidómi: to hand over, to give or deliver over, to betray
Original Word: παραδίδωμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: paradidómi
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ad-id'-o-mee)
Short Definition: I hand over, deliver, betray
Definition: I hand over, pledge, hand down, deliver, commit, commend, betray, abandon.

and from laqach
laqach: to take
Original Word: לָקַח
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: laqach
Phonetic Spelling: (law-kakh')
Short Definition: take

 

[GodsGrace]

You sir have recognized the correct point.
The sacrificial laws were a temporary covering until Christ came to fulfill their prophetic meaning. Once Christ came he fulfilled what those old works of the law were being used for.

What were the works of the law being used for?

 

[bbyrd009]

why am i being notified that GG quoted a post of mine, and leads me to the above post?

imo this software is about to crash or something

 

[GodsGrace]

why am i being notified that GG quoted a post of mine, and leads me to the above post?

imo this software is about to crash or something

As long as your computer doesn't crash!

 

[KBCid]

What were the works of the law being used for?

they were temporary coverings for sin.
Now think about this... Christ was the unblemished lamb that was the sacrifice for..... SIN. Now look back in the old testament and see what all the animal sacrifices were for.
When Christ came to the world to take the place of the animal sacrifices and become the final sacrifice for sins he essentially eliminated the need for the entire sacrificial system right? so all those Jews who would convert to the new covenant had not need to perform any of the sacrificial works of the law anymore because they could now offer Christ as the sacrificed lamb to permanently cover their sins.
This is why there were many discussions about the Jewish laws / customs since it required them to change the habits of many generations.