Was James confused?

[bbyrd009]

If you BELIEVE in something...
You have FAITH in that something.

maybe, yet pistis is still different from paradidomi or laqach, even if Scripture often conflates the two also

i use "pistis" rather than the root "pietho" there for the Strong's discourse @ "pistis," which gives an explanation of the difference in faith and belief

 

[bbyrd009]

It is a free gift so that no man may boast.

for this i would direct you to Amadeus' question of 'where do you read "free gift" anywhere?'

 

[bbyrd009]

Mr. Webster has nothing to do with this.
Mr. Webster is not a Chrisitan theologian.
You cannot go by what Mr. Webster thinks it means.

a point might be that the same thing happens with Bible translations, however, and actually i think ol' Noah was a theologian too, "Noah Webster, the Father of American Christian education," etc, was noah webster a theologian - Google Search

 

[bbyrd009]

I can claim justification with God only through faith in Jesus, not in good works that I do.

so then the argument merely shifts to whether faith is an action verb or is the same as belief in this sense, and you just end up going off on another scavenger hunt lol right. You can call Abraham's offering of Isaac faith or works, see, but it is kind of hard to call it merely belief, at least in a sense. It was only a belief until he called Isaac and they started up the mountain, see. Or it could be put that way at least.

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you scolding me?
What did I do?

ha, what? no, sorry, i meant the "you" up there to be "one," not you specifically

 

[bbyrd009]

WE DO NOT JUSTIFY OURSELVES.
Why do you keep saying that.

because the Bible keeps saying it

 

[bbyrd009]

Justification is salvation. Do you agree with
Ephesians 2:8 or not?

sure, but that is about salvation, not justification imo

we are provided a scenario of the unjustified, those who cry "Lord, Lord," that imo every seeker should identify for themselves.
i think a big difference in belief and faith is that a hypocrite can evince a belief, right, anyone can say that they believe something, but their actions will show what they really have faith in. Their works will justify their faith, just like for anyone, whether they "believe in works" or not. What you do indicates what you have faith in, otherwise you could not justify doing them, and so you would not.

Granted, our works are also garbage compared to God, but that is like saying your kindergartener's art work is crap, which it prolly is from one pov, but it is also a reflection of their heart, and so it is also very precious, right. Or maybe even disturbing. The point is that it is nothing, but it is also something.

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm arguing the difference between belief and faith in another thread?

well, involved in a discussion of, at least, i didn't read the whole thing

 

[bbyrd009]

The Apostle Paul states repeatedly that man is not justified by keeping the law (works), but rather by faith in Jesus Christ.

show me your faith without works, then, i mean this is an ancient argument, i agree we are not justified by keeping the law, as Job was not, and there is no law that says "sacrifice your son to Me," so see how that really doesn't even apply, at least to Abraham, etc.

No one--or at least i--is saying that going around intentionally keeping the law will save anyone, ok. Faith requires more than that, and at the same time requires less, because we are now supposed to be letting God drive, so to speak.

also any diff in works and good deeds should be understood, as they are often conflated and not always synonymous too imo

 

[bbyrd009]

I can claim justification with God only through faith in Jesus, not in good works that I do.

yet Scripture states that a good deed covers many sins, and "faith" there is undefined, is it belief, is it an action verb, what. See, we have a belief in Jesus, a tradition of teaching, a body of work, and then we have faith in Christ, that is differentiated from belief in that faith can only come from God, and one's faith in Christ might lead them quite afield from some others who have a belief in Jesus, all of this better explained at the "pistis" link imo

 

[GodsGrace]

for this i would direct you to Amadeus' question of 'where do you read "free gift" anywhere?'

Huh?
What does Ephesians 2:8 say?

Salvation is THE GIFT of God, so that no man may boast.

 

[GodsGrace]

so then the argument merely shifts to whether faith is an action verb or is the same as belief in this sense, and you just end up going off on another scavenger hunt lol right. You can call Abraham's offering of Isaac faith or works, see, but it is kind of hard to call it merely belief, at least in a sense. It was only a belief until he called Isaac and they started up the mountain, see. Or it could be put that way at least.

Faith is an action word.
Faith is not stagnant.
Faith creates movement.
BELIEVE also includes OBEY.
Obey is in the word Believe.
If you believe, you obey. This is why it's an important word.
We MUST obey Jesus since we believe in Him.
It's NOT AN OPTION. As some may think.

Abraham. What is it about Abraham?
What about Isaac?
Did Abraham not believe and have faith in God and obey God when he left Ur?

 

[GodsGrace]

because the Bible keeps saying it

Well then.
It must be true!

 

[GodsGrace]

sure, but that is about salvation, not justification imo

we are provided a scenario of the unjustified, those who cry "Lord, Lord," that imo every seeker should identify for themselves.
i think a big difference in belief and faith is that a hypocrite can evince a belief, right, anyone can say that they believe something, but their actions will show what they really have faith in. Their works will justify their faith, just like for anyone, whether they "believe in works" or not. What you do indicates what you have faith in, otherwise you could not justify doing them, and so you would not.

Granted, our works are also garbage compared to God, but that is like saying your kindergartener's art work is crap, which it prolly is from one pov, but it is also a reflection of their heart, and so it is also very precious, right. Or maybe even disturbing. The point is that it is nothing, but it is also something.

Are you a philosopher?
You keep getting philosophy mixed up with theology.

You use the word BELIEVE but not in the biblical sense.

When you are JUSTIFIED you are SAVED.
You are made right with God.

Did you read those two explanations I posted?
Do they mean anything to you?
Guess not.

If you BELIEVE in something, you're actions will show that Belief.

As for works, they are necessary after salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

show me your faith without works, then, i mean this is an ancient argument, i agree we are not justified by keeping the law, as Job was not, and there is no law that says "sacrifice your son to Me," so see how that really doesn't even apply, at least to Abraham, etc.

No one--or at least i--is saying that going around intentionally keeping the law will save anyone, ok. Faith requires more than that, and at the same time requires less, because we are now supposed to be letting God drive, so to speak.

also any diff in works and good deeds should be understood, as they are often conflated and not always synonymous too imo

Faith requires more.
Mathew 5:20

 

[bbyrd009]

Huh?
What does Ephesians 2:8 say?

Salvation is THE GIFT of God, so that no man may boast.

well, we are advised to "count the cost" of this gift by Christ, so what might He have meant?

 

[bbyrd009]

BELIEVE also includes OBEY.
Obey is in the word Believe.
If you believe, you obey. This is why it's an important word.

hence why defining it is Big Business, yes

We MUST obey Jesus since we believe in Him.
It's NOT AN OPTION. As some may think.

so you say, but the next guy is as entitled to his definitions as you are yours, see. The links for "belief" go into this more, about how faith cannot be deceived, but belief contains an element of deception

 

[GodsGrace]

yet Scripture states that a good deed covers many sins, and "faith" there is undefined, is it belief, is it an action verb, what. See, we have a belief in Jesus, a tradition of teaching, a body of work, and then we have faith in Christ, that is differentiated from belief in that faith can only come from God, and one's faith in Christ might lead them quite afield from some others who have a belief in Jesus, all of this better explained at the "pistis" link imo

Here's the link:

Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

[4102 (pistis) in secular antiquity referred to a guarantee (warranty). In Scripture, faith is God's warranty, certifying that the revelation He inbirthed will come to pass (His way).

Faith (4102/pistis) is also used collectively – of all the times God has revealed (given the persuasion of) His will, which includes the full revelation of Scripture (Jude 3). Indeed, God the Lord guarantees that all of this revelation will come to pass! Compare Mt 5:18 with 2 Tim 3:16.]

1. The root of 4102/pistis ("faith") is 3982/peithô ("to persuade, be persuaded") which supplies the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).

Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.

 

[GodsGrace]

well, we are advised to "count the cost" of this gift by Christ, so what might He have meant?

We count the cost to remain in the Kingdom of God.
THERE IS NO COST TO ENTER.

Justification
Sanctification
There is a cost to sanctification.

 

[bbyrd009]

Abraham. What is it about Abraham?

he was justified by his works, but one could hardly call them works of the law, is a point there.