Was James confused?

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GodsGrace

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James 2:20 "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

"Faith without works is dead", it is a dead faith. To put it another way, your faith as well as yourself are a fake. Many people today say that works are not necessary when you are a Christian. God is very natural in every thing that He does, and anything that will not work God does away with. When it is no longer of use, it returns back to its original elements. Rust or oxidation returns steel back to iron, oxygen and the elements that it was made of. Plants that die are decomposed to their original elements, and in faith, when the faith does not produce the natural order that it is intended to produce, it returns to what it was at the start. The natural order of any faith in Jesus Christ is to produce the works that your faith is suppose to produce. God gives each of us some form of gifts that He expects us to use and strengthen our faith. When we do not use those gifts, our faith dies, and returns to what we were before receiving the faith.

In the case of the handicapped, they have a very special gift, and their testimony means far more than someone that is old and without works. When the unbeliever sees someone handicapped that is a believer and has faith and works, it goes a long way in turning them to Christ. In Revelation 14:13 we are told exactly what we can take with us when we leave this life in our flesh bodies.

Revelation 14:13 "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforeth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them' "

Your works are the only thing that you take with you, for your works are already written in the book. It is what your eternal garment that you will be wearing for all eternity is made of. John was doing the writing as the Holy Spirit of Jesus is doing the talking, and telling John exactly what to write. Your labors are what you do in the flesh, not the spirit, it is what you do while in your flesh body. Your labors are your works and those things that you do for Christ and each of them follow you to heaven when you die, or at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Your works are what shows the quality of man or woman, boy or girl that you are.

Don't let some reverend or teacher rob you of those blessings that God has for you both now and in the eternity by telling you that works just don't count. They do count and they are the only thing that counts. They are what all of eternity is based upon, with regards to your rewards, your inheritance, your position and what you will be wearing throughout eternity. Let's go toRevelation 19:6-9 and see how our works are treated at the coming of the Lord, at the "marriage of the Lamb" to his bride [all the believers].

Revelation 19:6 "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia: for the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth."

This wedding takes place after the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ to set up His thousand year Millennium kingdom right here on earth. Each person that has by faith accepted Jesus as their Savior through their repentance in Jesus name, goes to make up the voice of a great multitude that is spoken of here.

Revelation 19:7 "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready."

Those of the elect that did not yield to Satan and his system when he came to the earth, but remained true to the seventh trumpet and the return of Jesus Christ, are the only ones that will enter into marriage supper of the Lamb, from our generation. Except for those that have died and passed on, of course. These are the ones that are making themselves ready for the supper.

Revelation 19:8 "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

Friend, your righteous acts are the works that you have done while living in your flesh body here on earth, and at this time those acts are the only thing that will go to make up the fine linen that you will be wearing in the Millennium and in the eternity. Those works are the only thing that covers you at the marriage supper of the Lamb, that is where the rewards are given out, and where you are assign your inheritance.

Do you get the picture? Your faith is needed to get you into the supper, but to attend the supper you need to be properly dressed. It is your works that decide what you will be wearing to the supper. James then is saying that if your works are dead, so is your faith also, for it takes one to obtain the other. You are not saved by your works, but by your belief and faith in Jesus Christ, it is your works that tests whether your faith is genuine. Your works is the guard at the door to check to see if your ticket qualified you to enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb, who is Jesus Christ. To see if you are a true man or woman of God, or just a cheap fake and counterfeit. There is no place setting at the supper table for those that think they can sneak in by some other means.

Revelation 19:9 "And he saith unto me, "Write, 'Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.' "

When your faith is checked out by your works, and those works are found to be true and genuine, God will truly bless you with His riches, as you become joint-heirs with Christ in that heavenly kingdom. Today it is common to hear that, "your works just don't matter." These are also the ones that tell you not to read the book of Revelation, and that the book of Revelation is not to be understood. They are the same old boys that think they can con the man at the door controlling the entering into the "marriage supper of the Lamb", and come up by some other way. They are the ones for you to mark well in anything that they say, and their words must be tested by the Word of God before being accepted, and there they will be found to be "hay and stubble, to be burned in the fire".

James is a very direct book and it gets said what must be said, especially to those that have blinded themselves to the book of Revelation.

James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

Our Lord Jesus Christ hadn't walked the earth during the time of Abraham, and the faith teachers had not been born yet. Abraham was judged by the works and acts that he did by God, and God found Abraham to be righteous through those righteous acts. He had the faith to believe that God said what He meant, and Abraham acted on those words. Abraham was to old to have a child, and God comes along and gives Abraham and Sarah the ability to give birth to Isaac, which was a miracle birth. Sarah's womb was years past bearing age, for she is one hundred years old at the time of Isaac's birth. Isaac was a miracle child.

God had promised Abraham that "the seed of Isaac would be as the stars in the heavens and the sands of the sea", and Abraham believed God. Then when God asked Abraham to kill his son on an altar as a sacrifice to Him, Abraham was willing to do it, for Abraham trusted God, and knew that somehow God would raise Isaac from the dead if necessary to keep His Word. It was God's Word that was at stake, and Abraham did not question how God would do what He said that He would do. What mattered to Abraham was that he obey exactly as God instructed him to do. That is what is called "works", it is complete obedience to God's Word. Abraham knew that God would not lie, and that God was in control and would hold his hand with the blade in it, if that is what God desired.

This is works and putting your faith into action. This is why Abraham's works are counted as faith. This is stated again in Hebrews 11:8; "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he wit out, not knowing whither he went."

Hebrews 11:9 "By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise;"

God asked Abraham to do something, and He did it without question.
What a great post.
Wish I could give you five likes!
If someone doesn't understand the above, I don't think they'll understand anything.
 

GodsGrace

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I hope this is not taken the wrong way. It is not intended to offend anyone. These are my personal thoughts based on what the scriptures actually say and put in this study.

The old saying that James and Paul were teaching the same thing, or that the word “works” each used do not mean the same thing, just doesn’t get it for me. --- One must understand that Paul addressed his letters to the Gentile churches he founded. James wrote his letter to the Jews who were scattered over the other countries (James 1:1). James’ letter was not addressed to the same churches that Paul’s letters were addressed

The study:

Was James confused? Or was he still preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which included the Law?

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

FACT! No, he was not! ---- He was accounted righteous before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

FACT! Not only that, but God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that he did. There is nothing in Genesis 15 that mentions any works that Abraham did. Paul accurately reports this. It seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15. It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.

James writes:
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

FACT! Neither of those last two statements jives with the Genesis 15:4-6 account. Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

FACT! What James wrote, as shown above, is a direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Genesis 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. However, it was compatible with the law. Since the word of God has to be based on truth, I find the book of James is not based on the truth and is highly suspect.

Here are some more facts that support my opinion. I find them interesting.

1. The word “Law” is found in 18 places
2. The word “grace” is found in 2 places
3. The word “Christ” is found in 2 places
4. The word “Justified” is found in 2 place with the words “by works” after them
5. The words “by faith” is found 1 time (justified by works and not by faith only)

6. The word “cross” is not found
7. The word “reconciled” is not found
8. The word “sanctified” is not found
9. The word “saved” is not found
10. The words “in Christ” are not found
11. The shed blood of Jesus on the cross is not mentioned.

Romans 4:1-7 Abraham Justified by Faith.
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
NKJV
Hey HR
What could be taken the wrong way?

1. You just said James , the brother of the Christ , should not be in the Bible.
2. You said there are conflicts in the NT.

I have a lot of bibles.
Should I throw them out?
 

GodsGrace

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***
I have another writing you might like. But it isn't finished yet. It is not a study as such sine many will not believe what I write based on scripture anyway. It will have the Title "The Religious Box."
Do you have a PhD in theology that you Write stuff?
So far, you ain't doin so good.

Answer this:
Did Abraham ever work before Isaac?
Who has the last word in the Bible?
 

GodsGrace

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***

I listed the facts in the OP. But I see that no one wants to see them because they never mention them. James had some of his evidence from the wrong period of Abraham's live. --- No I am not going to go to the effort to rewrite those facts since the facts don't seem to be getting throuh.
The facts aren't getting thru because they are not facts but merely your opinion.
Will answer the op when at my computer.
 

GodsGrace

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One must remember that all the apostolic letters were written to deal with problems that had arisen in the churches and to counteract specific false teachings.
Paul puts a lot of emphasis on grace because Gentile believers were being bullied into converting to Judaism.
James is dealing with a very different situation. When he writes, "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?" (James 2:14), he clearly assumes that his readers are already completely convinced that they are justified by faith alone. It's hardly surprising, then, that James doesn’t waste any time going over what is common ground for them. He doesn’t need to argue for justification by faith, because no-one disputes it; instead, he has to explain that there is potentially more than one type of faith. There is a faith that produces works, and there is a ‘faith’ that does not. The former is the kind of faith that justifies, but the latter is an intellectual kind of faith that is little more than wishful thinking. James is merely insisting that we must have the right kind of faith (James 2:24).

Faith and works: Paul v James (round 1)
I'm sorry.
Could you confirm which is the right kind of faith?
The kind that works or the kind that does nothing?
Didn't understand.
 

Deborah_

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I'm sorry.
Could you confirm which is the right kind of faith?
The kind that works or the kind that does nothing?
Didn't understand.

I'm sorry, I thought I had made it quite clear:

There is a faith that produces works, and there is a ‘faith’ that does not. The former is the kind of faith that justifies, but the latter is an intellectual kind of faith that is little more than wishful thinking. James is merely insisting that we must have the right kind of faith (James 2:24).

The former (first-mentioned) kind of faith - the faith that produces works - is the kind of faith that justifies.
The latter (last-mentioned) kind of faith - the 'faith' that does nothing - is little more than wishful thinking.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer put it this way:

Faith without works = nominal religion = no salvation
Works without faith = legalism = no salvation
Faith plus works = salvation
 
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GodsGrace

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I'm sorry, I thought I had made it quite clear:



The former (first-mentioned) kind of faith - the faith that produces works - is the kind of faith that justifies.
The latter (last-mentioned) kind of faith - the 'faith' that does nothing - is little more than wishful thinking.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer put it this way:

Faith without works = nominal religion = no salvation
Works without faith = legalism = no salvation
Faith plus works = salvation

Thanks Deborah
You seemed to contradict yourself when I was reading your post.
I like to confirm and not jump to conclusions.

I agree with what you stated above.
 

GodsGrace

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we should prolly keep in mind that it can be very hard to do nothing sometimes though

th
 

GodsGrace

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Do you have a PhD in theology that you Write stuff?
So far, you ain't doin so good.

Answer this:
Did Abraham ever work before Isaac?
Who has the last word in the Bible?
Well, @H. Richard
Are you going to answer the two questions I've asked you?

I dislike that you're pitting two N.T. writers against each other.
The ENTIRE N.T. MUST be accepted, or NONE of it can be accepted.

Paul ALSO stated many times that we must do works.
Maybe you overlooked those verses?
If you answer me, maybe we could get into it.

In fact, I'd like to see a verse that says that all we have to do is BELIEVE and nothing else and we'll be saved anyway.

Jesus said we must pick up our cross daily.
What does that mean to you?
Mathew 16:24

Jesus said His yoke was easy,
NOT there there wasn't an oxen to push.
Mathew 12:30
 
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H. Richard

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Hey HR
What could be taken the wrong way?

1. You just said James , the brother of the Christ , should not be in the Bible.
2. You said there are conflicts in the NT.

I have a lot of bibles.
Should I throw them out?
***
Like many on forums you want me to defend your statement that is something I never said. That is not right.

What I said was that the book of James was written to the Jews only. It said so in the very first verse James 1:1. Check it out!

James was writing to Jews who were under the Law of Moses. Today, no one is under the law of Moses. We are under grace.

I will not reply to your other writings since I know it would be foolish to do so. You are having so much fun at the expense of others who are serious about what they write trying to make Fools out of them. My study on the book of James said FACTS which you say are no FACTS. Okay, that is just your opinion and it has no more value than mine.
 

pia

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I will not reply to your other writings since I know it would be foolish to do so. You are having so much fun at the expense of others who are serious about what they write trying to make Fools out of them. My study on the book of James said FACTS which you say are no FACTS. Okay, that is just your opinion and it has no more value than mine
I too have had a very bad experience with this person.....just wanted to say thank you for your comments on the book of James, I recall when I first tried to read it, it terrified me, and then as I did what you did, I got to understand the Love in it.
Praise His name, the way He helps us, when we are willing. Blessings in Him Pia
 

GodsGrace

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I too have had a very bad experience with this person.....just wanted to say thank you for your comments on the book of James, I recall when I first tried to read it, it terrified me, and then as I did what you did, I got to understand the Love in it.
Praise His name, the way He helps us, when we are willing. Blessings in Him Pia
Why were you terrified if you love Jesus and He loves you as you state so many times?
 

FHII

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I'm sorry, I thought I had made it quite clear:



The former (first-mentioned) kind of faith - the faith that produces works - is the kind of faith that justifies.
The latter (last-mentioned) kind of faith - the 'faith' that does nothing - is little more than wishful thinking.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer put it this way:

Faith without works = nominal religion = no salvation
Works without faith = legalism = no salvation
Faith plus works = salvation
Yet it fails what was said in Romans 4, Galatians and Eph 2. These chapters and books do not support that notion. Its as if they are entiely ignored Deborah. And those are just a few sources out of the scripture. There are many more.

The book of James, as wonderful as it is, is not compatable with what Paul taught. At least not on the topic of waith and works.

Its not an error in the Bible because the Bible explains to audience and mindset of the two writers.
 

pia

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Why were you terrified if you love Jesus and He loves you as you state so many times?
That was when I first got a hold of a Bible and started to read it some 26 odd years ago. It confused me because it seemed so different than Him and I didn't yet understand. As indeed there are millions of things I still don't understand, but I would rather wait 5 years for Him to make me comprehend something, than spending 5 years trying in my own strength and leaning on my own understanding ( as I was obviously trying to do with the book of James ) to understand what can only be understood from Gods perspective, and for that we MUST have the leading and the teaching of and by the Holy Spirit or by the voice of Jesus....One the 'still' small voice, the other the voice of our Lord....
 

n2thelight

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Yet it fails what was said in Romans 4, Galatians and Eph 2. These chapters and books do not support that notion. Its as if they are entiely ignored Deborah. And those are just a few sources out of the scripture. There are many more.

The book of James, as wonderful as it is, is not compatable with what Paul taught. At least not on the topic of waith and works.

Its not an error in the Bible because the Bible explains to audience and mindset of the two writers.

Scripture can't contradict each other,for all though we have different writers,the inspiration remains the same,that's when one needs to step back and start again.
 

FHII

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Scripture can't contradict each other,for all though we have different writers,the inspiration remains the same,that's when one needs to step back and start again.
That's right. It can't. That's why you have to understand where each writer was coning from. Read Acts 15 and 21. James was zealous for the law and Paul said it was abolished.

Scrupture doesn't contradict itself. B7t that doesn't mean the Apostles and servants of God didn't disagree.
 

Deborah_

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Yet it fails what was said in Romans 4, Galatians and Eph 2. These chapters and books do not support that notion. Its as if they are entiely ignored Deborah. And those are just a few sources out of the scripture. There are many more.

The book of James, as wonderful as it is, is not compatable with what Paul taught. At least not on the topic of waith and works.

Its not an error in the Bible because the Bible explains to audience and mindset of the two writers.

If James' teaching is incompatible with Paul, then Paul's is incompatible with his own! He didn’t teach justification by faith alone in the sense of a faith that is disconnected from obedience; he expected believers to “demonstrate their repentance by their deeds” (Acts 26:20) and to work out their salvation (Philippians 2:12). He consistently taught his converts the importance of loving deeds as well as faith (e.g. Galatians 5:6; I Thessalonians 1:3; Colossians 1:3,4), and was as eager for them to show practical help to the poor as even James could wish (Galatians 2:10). So is his overall message essentially different from that of James? No! Love for one’s neighbour is not an optional extra, but integral to a genuine Christian faith.

you have to understand where each writer was coning from. Read Acts 15 and 21. James was zealous for the law and Paul said it was abolished.

That's not how I read Acts 15 & 21.
James seems to have been unwillingly co-opted into the legalists’ cause even in his own lifetime. Those who wanted to impose the Jewish Law on Gentile converts claimed to speak with his authority (Galatians 2:12), although he later denied any connection with them (Acts 15:24). But if James really had such fundamental objections to Paul’s version of the gospel, why did he (along with the other apostles) give it his official approval (Galatians 2:6-9)? Far from being a zealous promoter of the Jewish Law, the James that Luke portrays in Acts 15 and 21 is an influence for moderation and reconciliation, doing his best to draw together people on both sides of the argument.
 
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