Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

[Behold]

Jesus was crucified because this is God's plan of redemption, manifested 2000 yrs ago.

Why did the "religious leaders" hate Jesus?
Its because they are Legalist's, and Jesus is Righteousness.

Its the same type of hate we find today within Christianity.

You have those who are trying to save themselves, who dont understand Salvation, who literally feel hatred for those who do understand salvation.

So, there is this contradiction that occurs when the Legalist, the self saver, comes in contact with the Grace of God.
its always a hateful situation.
This is because FLESH can not stand Grace.
Legalism can not stand the Gift of Salvation.

 

[Earburner]

Thanks.
How do we make our calling and election sure?

Rom. 8:8-9

 

[Marymog]

I think the Catholics call that Chrismation. Which comes to the baptizee at infant baptism. As I understand it.
But, I'm no expert on the subject.

@Marymog

For a person who is raised Catholic from birth first comes baptism by water and the Spirit preferably within a couple weeks of birth. Chrismation (aka confirmation) is done later in life (usually around the age of 7-8).

Hope that helps....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Water baptism by water is for repentance.
The act of repentance through water baptism, is only half the formula of salvation.

If one does not follow through in the other half, of being baptized BY the Holy Spirit (inviting the Spirit of Christ into their life), repentance and baptism by water is made void and is useful for nothing.

Your opinion is different than what Scripture says.

When one accepts that Jesus is the Saviour sent by God and then is water baptized their sins are washed away AND they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit AND they are saved. It is in those moments that they "invite the Spirit of Christ into their life".

Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,

Whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

There is no "follow through". Repentance and water baptism are not made void. At no point at no time does Scripture ever say that.

@St. SteVen

 

[Marymog]

How about a statement made from the chair? Wouldn't all statements considered ex cathedra be infallible according to the catholic church and it's adherents?

Ex Cathedra-

• Statement made ex cathedra: This Literally means "Statement made from the chair". It is a theological term which signifies authoritative teaching and is more particularly applied to the definitions given by the Pope. I Vatican Council says that when Pope makes a statement ex cathedra, he does so in his office of pastor and doctor of all Christians. (Session IV, Const. de Ecclesiâ Christi, c. iv). Example: when declaring and defining a dogma, Pope makes that statement ex cathedra.

Hey E,

I get it. You and your ilk want to turn what the Pope Leo wrote into an infallible teaching. Only you and your ilk believe it is.....The Church doesn't and has made it very clear it is not.

 

[Marymog]

That blessed event in a person's life, is commonly called being "born again", when a person repents towards God, and then knowingly, has received God's gift of His Holy Spirit. Except for the biblical words of God, no visible denominational church is required. John 3:3-8.

Hey earburner,

No visible Church is required?????????? What invisible church enforces Matthew 18:17?

 

[Marymog]

I think they go on from there.
They have catechism classes and probably agree to a confession of faith.
They do things differently than Protestants.

We have a 1,700-year-old "confession of faith".

Correction: Catholicism came first therefor Protestants do things different than the long-held practices of the Catholic Church and all protestants do things different than other Protestants.


Respectfully, Mary

@Earburner

 

[Marymog]

Jesus was crucified because this is God's plan of redemption, manifested 2000 yrs ago.

Why did the "religious leaders" hate Jesus?
Its because they are Legalist's, and Jesus is Righteousness.

Its the same type of hate we find today within Christianity.

You have those who are trying to save themselves, who dont understand Salvation, who literally feel hatred for those who do understand salvation.

So, there is this contradiction that occurs when the Legalist, the self saver, comes in contact with the Grace of God.
its always a hateful situation.
This is because FLESH can not stand Grace.
Legalism can not stand the Gift of Salvation.

How do you define legalism in Christianity?

Curious Mary

 

[St. SteVen]

We have a 1,700-year-old "confession of faith".

That's older than my car. Is it safe to drive?
No interest in a newer model? - LOL

Correction: Catholicism came first therefor Protestants do things different than the long-held practices of the Catholic Church and all protestants do things different than other Protestants.

What is most important in a relationship with God?

Long-held practices, or freedom to express our relationship as seems fitting to the individual?
Jesus abandoned the long-held practices of Judaism. Paul explained why.

Paul differed from Jesus, Jesus differed from John the Baptist, John the Baptist differed from Elijah,
Elijah differed from Moses, Moses differed from Abraham, Abraham differed from Enoch. Who was right?

 

[Mr E]

Hey E,

I get it. You and your ilk want to turn what the Pope Leo wrote into an infallible teaching. Only you and your ilk believe it is.....The Church doesn't and has made it very clear it is not.

Roger. Dodger.

 

[Marymog]

That's older than my car. Is it safe to drive?
No interest in a newer model? - LOL

What is most important in a relationship with God?

Long-held practices, or freedom to express our relationship as seems fitting to the individual?
Jesus abandoned the long-held practices of Judaism. Paul explained why.

Paul differed from Jesus, Jesus differed from John the Baptist, John the Baptist differed from Elijah,
Elijah differed from Moses, Moses differed from Abraham, Abraham differed from Enoch. Who was right?

Wow...u must be rich if you can afford a car less than 1,700 years old

One important relationship with God is that we adhere to all of Scripture. We Catholics adhere to all of Scripture: 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 1 Timothy 6:3-5

You choose to hold fast to the 500-year-old (or less) teachings of Protestantism. When do you stop differing? Until abortion, gay marriage and women as pastors are 'ok' with God and you no longer "do this" in remembrance of Him (Luke 22:19)?....oh wait, your Protestant friends (and possibly your denomination) have already started differing on that....Never mind.

 

[St. SteVen]

We Catholics adhere to all of Scripture

There's a topic. - LOL
Nothing lost in 1,700 years?

St. Thomas Aquinas meets Pope Innocent IV: Silver & gold​

The story is famous of the discourse between Pope Innocent IV and Thomas Aquinas. When that great scholar came to Rome, and looked somewhat amazedly upon the mass of plate and treasure which he saw, Lo, said the Pope, you see Thomas, we cannot say as St Peter did of old, silver and gold have we none. No, said Aquinas, neither can you command, as he did, the lame man to arise and walk. — Bishop Hall

 

[Marymog]

There's a topic. - LOL
Nothing lost in 1,700 years?

St. Thomas Aquinas meets Pope Innocent IV: Silver & gold​

The story is famous of the discourse between Pope Innocent IV and Thomas Aquinas. When that great scholar came to Rome, and looked somewhat amazedly upon the mass of plate and treasure which he saw, Lo, said the Pope, you see Thomas, we cannot say as St Peter did of old, silver and gold have we none. No, said Aquinas, neither can you command, as he did, the lame man to arise and walk. — Bishop Hall

Hey Steven,

Instead of asking me if anything was lost in 1,700 years how about if you give me evidence that The Church has lost something in 1,700 years? After all, Jesus said that the gates of hell will not prevail against The Church. It seems you are suggesting that the gates of hell HAVE prevailed against The Church.

Also, it was interesting of you to say "nothing lost in 1,700 years" when The Church that Christ started has been around for 2,000 years. From where do you come up with this 1,700-year number? The Church has been around for 2,000 years. You do know that, right?

Here is the most important part of your cute little quote that you think is a win for you: Did you know that the "quote" you provided is from Cornelius a Lapide who lived 300 years AFTER Thomas Aquinas??? There is zero historical evidence of it of your cute little quote that you THINK makes it a win for you!!!

Looking forward to your evidence......Mary

 

[Behold]

How do you define legalism in Christianity?

Curious Mary

Hey Marymog,

Legalism is any belief that replaces the Cross of Christ as the only Salvation that God offers as His acceptance of us.

Legalism, is simply...>"self saving"

Its trying to go to heaven based on something you think you have to do, or keep doing, that isn't Christ dying for you.

Here is another way to look at it...

Only JESUS SAVES......
See that?
That means that Jesus died on the Cross to become "only Jesus saves".

So, what isn't that, does not and can not save you.

1.) A Church
2.) Water Baptism
3.) Penance
4.) Confessing sin
5.) Lifestyle
6.) Holding unto faith
7.) Commandment keeping
8.) Law Keeping
9.) Taking Sacraments

See all those?
Those are YOU DOING IT......and going to Heaven is based solely on what Jesus did for you, is the only way there. = John 14:6

So, just remember to ask.... "did it die on the Cross for me", "or not"... and if it didn't then it cant save you, and wont save you, and God will not accept it on your behalf to save you.

 

[Marymog]

Hey Marymog,

Legalism is any belief that replaces the Cross of Christ as the only Salvation that God offers as His acceptance of us.

Legalism, is simply...>"self saving"

Its trying to go to heaven based on something you think you have to do, or keep doing, that isn't Christ dying for you.

Here is another way to look at it...

Only JESUS SAVES......
See that?
That means that Jesus died on the Cross to become "only Jesus saves".

So, what isn't that, does not and can not save you.

1.) A Church
2.) Water Baptism
3.) Penance
4.) Confessing sin
5.) Lifestyle
6.) Holding unto faith
7.) Commandment keeping
8.) Law Keeping

See all those?
Those are YOU DOING IT......and going to Heaven is what Jesus did for you, is the only way there. = John 14:6

So, just remember to ask.... "did it die on the Cross for me", "or not"... and if it didn't then it cant save you, and wont save you, and God will not accept it on your behalf to save you.

Thanks, Behold!

I will tackle the easiest one (#2) first. Your men have taught you that baptism doesn't save you. But Scripture says opposite of that: 1 Peter 3:21

And then #4: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

#3: if you think that it is ok to just confess your sins and then not have to do penance for them is a very simple reading of Scripture. Steal all day long and then confess that you are a thief but not have to do penance EVER? That is OPPISITE of what Scripture teaches.......

Soooooo let me see if I have what your men have taught you is correct: Law Keeping (#8) does not save you??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Ok......so I will violate every law of man and of God and I will still be saved

Your men have lied to you............

 

[St. SteVen]

Instead of asking me if anything was lost in 1,700 years how about if you give me evidence that The Church has lost something in 1,700 years?

I though I did.
Whether the quote was genuine or not.

But this is off topic anyway. I'll give you the last word.

 

[Marymog]

I though I did.
Whether the quote was genuine or not.

But this is off topic anyway. I'll give you the last word.

Ok...so you thought you did. What "quote" are you talking about?

Also, how are we off topic? The "topic" is (0f which you brought up) Does the Church adhere to Scripture or was something lost 1,700 years ago. YOU began that topic in post #212. Would you like to address that topic OR off the cuff remark (whatever you want to call it)? Or not?

Would you please address my entire post instead of part of it?

the rest of my post that you didn't address:

After all, Jesus said that the gates of hell will not prevail against The Church. It seems you are suggesting that the gates of hell HAVE prevailed against The Church.

Also, it was interesting of you to say "nothing lost in 1,700 years" when The Church that Christ started has been around for 2,000 years. From where do you come up with this 1,700-year number? The Church has been around for 2,000 years. You do know that, right?

Here is the most important part of your cute little quote that you think is a win for you: Did you know that the "quote" you provided is from Cornelius a Lapide who lived 300 years AFTER Thomas Aquinas??? There is zero historical evidence of it of your cute little quote that you THINK makes it a win for you!!!

Looking forward to your evidence and rebuttal......Mary

 

[Marymog]

An honest, rational, discussion isn't happening with Mary.

When was I not honest? Please reply with FACTS or publicly apologize for your public lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Behold]

Thanks, Behold!

I will tackle the easiest one (#2) first. Your men have taught you that baptism doesn't save you.

Your men have lied to you............

If water baptism could save you, then Jesus didn't have to die on the Cross.

Consider that the dying Thief is in Heaven, and was never water baptized.

Just remember ... If it didn't die on the Cross for your sin, then it can't save you.

 

[Behold]

Ok......so I will violate every law of man and of God and I will still be saved

"law of man"?

Like running a stop sign? or Not paying taxes?

Those are man's laws., not God's.

And God's law, and 10 commandments were not given to save you... they were given to show you that you are a sinner.
Its by the law that we see our SIN.
Its the Law that shows us...our sinful behavior, and that is not going to save you, as the Law is showing you who you are, and that you need to be saved.

This leads you to the Savior.

That's the purpose of the law and commandments.
They are a mirror that reflect God's holiness AGAINST us, so that we can see that we are a SINNER, needing to go to the Cross and be forgiven.

Water can't do that for you.
Why?

Because "only JESUS saves".

Water did not die on the Cross for your sin.
Water is just water, no matter what.

Listen, reader..
In eternity, God does not ask you..>"what did you do with my WATER".

Understand?

He asks......"What have you done with my Son", and if your answer is...>>"water baptism" then you will not go to heaven.