Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

[VictoryinJesus]

Your men have lied to you, or you are deceiving yourself: Mark 12:17

Water is not just water. Scripture makes it clear that baptism (with water) now saves you. Scripture makes it clear that we are to follow Jesus example. He was baptized (with water) and we are to be baptized with water if we are to follow His example. If you, Behold, believe that YOU don't have to follow His example and walk in His footstepst then DON'T...as for us true Christians....we will follow (as best we can) in His footsteps!!!!!!!!!!!!!

History and Scripture prove that YOU are a false prophet. What does Scripture say about false prophets: Matthew 7:15

Good day mate.........Mary

PS......notice how I have highlighted passages from Scripture to support the FACTS? And you, well YOU, have only given your unbiblical opinion which is opposite of Scripture. How sad for you Behold.......how sad.............

Just my two cents neither are an example of Christ. Neither water baptism were if you don’t do as we interpret and have the (our)holy living water of “blessing” then you are a heretic. Nor if you think water baptism will save you then you are a heretic. Paul thought it more important to sit with a weak brother who was afraid to eat…yet Paul said if I harm one who is weak in Faith then I harm one (child) for whom Christ died, and sin against Christ. The warning Christ gave was do not harm to the little children but let them come to Me. Same as the water in question He used an example of sitting a child on His lap. If water means more then also “don’t harm the children and let the little children come to Me.” Means more.

Neither is an example (Imo) of Living Water but both excludes the other for whom Christ died. Assuming “you don’t belong to Christ.”
John 4:11,23-24 The woman said unto him, Sir, you have nothing to draw with(don’t worry I have everything to draw with for if I be lifted up, I’ll draw all men unto Me), and the well is deep(He drew me up out of deep waters): from where then have you that living water(from the Father, for I am that Living water that proceed out and comes from God? And I am that Living (pure)Water that flows out from the Father and returns to the Father) [23] But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit (and not the flesh)and in truth. (If they could they, works of the flesh, will exclude you.)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

John 4:11,23-24 The woman said unto him, Sir, you have nothing to draw with(don’t worry I have everything to draw with for if I be lifted up, I’ll draw all men unto Me)

Sir, you have nothing to draw with.
He had and possessed everything yet became poor that we be made rich(never to thirst again). To drink of the “Living Water”. He gave of Himself to draw up others out from a deep well. When she said to Him “You have nothing to draw with. How and from where will you give me this Living Water?” … “woman whom I love and am sitting with talking to, I will give Myself.” …“Are you Him that was and is to come?”. … “That is what I (the Son of God) has and why My Father Loves Me.” John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, [15] just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. [17] For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. [18] No one takes (steals)it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."
“Sir, how do you have this Living Water and from where did You get it?” —I have authority to lay it down and take it up again. THIS CHARGE I have Received from My Father.”

Consider what we say of Jesus Christ how He is the only one worthy to draw men unto Himself. What does He have to draw with and where does it come from? Not like the priest with blemishes and imperfections who die that had to continually sacrifice animals but His sacrifice was Once….without blemish or imperfections. We love Him because He first Loved us and gave Himself. Even while we were dead in sin, He gave for us to be found in His Likeness. And out of them will flow Living Water…out of them will flow Christ…mercy, grace, truth, love, charity, forgiveness, long-suffering, patience, tempered-together (fitted-joined-together), and brotherly kindness. Baptism of and from the Spirit of God if these attributes be increasing in you they make you (bear fruit) fruitful in the knowledge of Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

They were Heretical. They blamed Him for being so when it was them who were such. To me that is what He revealed to them, and they hated it. (Him) For example when He asked them Abraham would have rejoiced ... but you try to kill Me. An opportunity of self-reflection. "Why do you try to kill Me?" But some listened for example Saul/Paul when he was asked, "Saul Saul why do you persecute Me?" Big wake up moment of self-reflection (imo). That is why i think Jesus was not Heretical but instead they were what they accused Him of being and when self-reflection was given, they despised Him. Not because He was Heretical. But because they were.

Agreed for the most part.
One of the things I am challenging in this topic is our DEFINITION of "heretical".
You are seeing heretical as BAD (as most do), I am questioning that definition.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus Christ is (was)not heretical because the truth and love of God was (is) in Him.

How are you defining "heretical"?

 

[St. SteVen]

Sir, you have nothing to draw with.

Did he forget his pencil? - LOL

 

[Behold]

I wasn't talking about unbelievers. The church doesn't call unbelievers heretics.

A heretic is a deceived Christian, and its also a person who believes they are a Christian, because they have joined "a Church", or they are told that "water washed your sin away", and they believed that this is their Salvation.
That's a specific type of Heretic., who is a part of a "water cult".
So, they will define themselves and their CULT, as "Christian".
They will be found in Pulpits, and on TV, and on Forums, trying to teach the bible.
They also start denominations.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How are you defining "heretical"?

That is a good question. I wasn’t sure so I googled the definition.
heretic: noun

1. a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
2. a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

If we go off the definition of a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted. Maybe they did see Him as a heretic. An example: when He healed a man on the Sabbath and they accused him of basically being a heretic. Going against what was generally acceptable. But still I think they were heretics against “which of you has an oxen that falls into a pit on the sabbath day and you do not pull him up out of the pit? is it right to save a mans life on the sabbath day, or to destroy a man’s life?”

There is a passage: as liars yet true, as dead yet behold we live. As outcast yet accepted of God. Heretic fits too I think: as heretics yet not heretics Falsely handling the word of God. They referred to them(followers of Christ) as “a sect” of men

sect: a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong

They (followers of Christ)teaching what they ought not teach. Heretics. Maybe by mens standards Jesus Christ appeared as a heretic yet He was approved of God “this is My beloved Son. Hear Him.” He is no heretic same as He is no liar though they called Him a liar. Just because He was called something as going against what is generally accepted does not make Him a heretic just as much as it doesn’t make Him a liar. I still think it showed who were the real heretics in their going against what is acceptable unto God in “why do you go about to kill Me.” Sure we could call Him an outcast too, yet He is acceptable unto God. Which is true? An outcast. Or accepted. Rejected of men yet accepted of God.
Isaiah 53:3-9 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But (yet)he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

In the sight of men…a heretic.
in the Sight of God…A Son.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Anybody who disagrees with me!

Best post on what a heretic is. I love the little laughing emoji. But at the same time it is sadly true.

 

[Brakelite]

A heretic is a deceived Christian, and its also a person who believes they are a Christian, because they have joined "a Church", or they are told that "water washed your sin away", and they believed that this is their Salvation.
That's a specific type of Heretic., who is a part of a "water cult".
So, they will define themselves and their CULT, as "Christian".
They will be found in Pulpits, and on TV, and on Forums, trying to teach the bible.
They also start denominations.

I disagree partly. Heretics can be genuine Christians who know the truth. They are deemed heretics by the church because they choose to think for themselves, and have identified where the church contradicts scripture, so they, against the church's warnings, have chosen to believe scripture.
That's why the Catholic church over the centuries murdered millions for heresy. Not because they discovered the truth, but because they rejected church authority and teaching.

 

[Brakelite]

KJV Acts 24:14
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets
:

 

[BarneyFife]

Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic.

The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".

In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.

Was Jesus Heretical?

Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.

Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?

A heretic is a necessary component of the NT church.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

And I'm really going to bed now.

 

[BarneyFife]

Because the less I sleep, the more I have to exercise, and who wants to do more exercise?

 

[St. SteVen]

Because the less I sleep, the more I have to exercise, and who wants to do more exercise?

One more post and I will call you a liar. - LOL

I forgot about this topic, mentioned in the OP for this one we are on.

Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist?)

Follow-up to the "Is Universalism Orthodox."[?] topic. What is this thing with accusations of unorthodox, heretic, heterodox, pagan, etc. Seems like blatant tribalism to me. Us versus them. When will we ever learn? So, was Jesus orthodox? Or did he operate outside the realm of the orthodoxy of...

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