Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?

[Marymog]

Whether the quote was genuine or not.

"Whether the quote was genuine (a lie) or not"............it should still be addressed by Marymog???



Oh goodness...........

 

[Marymog]

"law of man"?

Like running a stop sign? or Not paying taxes?

Those are man's laws., not God's.

And God's law, and 10 commandments were not given to save you... they were given to show you that you are a sinner.
Its by the law that we see our SIN.
Its the Law that shows us...our sinful behavior, and that is not going to save you, as the Law is showing you who you are, and that you need to be saved.

This leads you to the Savior.

That's the purpose of the law and commandments.
They are a mirror that reflect God's holiness AGAINST us, so that we can see that we are a SINNER, needing to go to the Cross and be forgiven.

Water can't do that for you.
Why?

Because "only JESUS saves".

Water did not die on the Cross for your sin.
Water is just water, no matter what.

Listen, reader..
In eternity, God does not ask you..>"what did you do with my WATER".

Understand?

He asks......"What have you done with my Son", and if your answer is...>>"water baptism" then you will not go to heaven.

Your men have lied to you, or you are deceiving yourself: Mark 12:17

Water is not just water. Scripture makes it clear that baptism (with water) now saves you. Scripture makes it clear that we are to follow Jesus example. He was baptized (with water) and we are to be baptized with water if we are to follow His example. If you, Behold, believe that YOU don't have to follow His example and walk in His footstepst then DON'T...as for us true Christians....we will follow (as best we can) in His footsteps!!!!!!!!!!!!!

History and Scripture prove that YOU are a false prophet. What does Scripture say about false prophets: Matthew 7:15

Good day mate.........Mary

PS......notice how I have highlighted passages from Scripture to support the FACTS? And you, well YOU, have only given your unbiblical opinion which is opposite of Scripture. How sad for you Behold.......how sad.............

 

[Behold]

Water is not just water. Scripture makes it clear that baptism (with water) now saves you.

Jesus saves you.
The Cross is the Proof.

Water is just water, except to a water cult.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus saves you.
The Cross is the Proof.

Water is just water, except to a water cult.

The cross is just a piece of wood.

Wood is just wood....

 

[Behold]

The cross is just a piece of wood.

Wood is just wood....

Here is what Paul said..

So, you have to discern it.

""For the preaching of the CROSS is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."""

Notice that the verse says....>"IT".... is the "power of God".


= "We preach CHRIST Crucified"....

See those?

So, when we talk about "The Cross" we are literally talking about God on the Cross, as the Literal Redemption.

This.. John 14:6

 

[Earburner]

Hey earburner,

No visible Church is required?????????? What invisible church enforces Matthew 18:17?

"law of man"?

Like running a stop sign? or Not paying taxes?

Those are man's laws., not God's.

And God's law, and 10 commandments were not given to save you... they were given to show you that you are a sinner.
Its by the law that we see our SIN.
Its the Law that shows us...our sinful behavior, and that is not going to save you, as the Law is showing you who you are, and that you need to be saved.

This leads you to the Savior.

That's the purpose of the law and commandments.
They are a mirror that reflect God's holiness AGAINST us, so that we can see that we are a SINNER, needing to go to the Cross and be forgiven.

Water can't do that for you.
Why?

Because "only JESUS saves".

Water did not die on the Cross for your sin.
Water is just water, no matter what.

Listen, reader..
In eternity, God does not ask you..>"what did you do with my WATER".

Understand?

He asks......"What have you done with my Son", and if your answer is...>>"water baptism" then you will not go to heaven.

To all the above: Thank you for your concern, but "Behold" is correct in understanding.

1. Baptism by water is unto repentance towards God. Mat. 3:11,
2. Baptism by the Gift of God's Holy Spirit is unto salvation by God. John 3:3-8, Luke 11:13, Rev. 3:20.

Edit: as for Mat. 18:17, anyone can become a member of the visible church through baptism by water, but no one can become a member of Christ's invisible church, except through the baptism by His Holy Spirit.
Therefore, one can perform item #1, but only God performs item #2.
"...MANY be called, but few chosen." Mat. 20:16, Rev. 3:20, Rom. 8:9.

 

[St. SteVen]

To all the above: Thank you for your concern, but "Behold" is correct in understanding.

1. Baptism by water is unto repentance towards God. Mat. 3:11,
2. Baptism by the Gift of God's Holy Spirit is unto salvation by God. John 3:3-8, Luke 11:13, Rev. 3:20.

What do you make of this?

Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

 

[Earburner]

What do you make of this?

Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ
for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Only God knows the sincerity of heart of a person's repentance towards God. If a person is not seeking to "worship God in Spirit and in truth", sure they can be baptized by water, and become a member of a church.

But God will not baptize them with his Holy Spirit, until they do earnestly seek Him, of which may also be never.
Will water baptism alone then save them?
Absolutely not! Rom. 8:9.

Please notice what the repentant heart towards God looks like and acts like:
[36] Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, [inwardly convicted] and said [asked] unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

 

[Marymog]

To all the above: Thank you for your concern, but "Behold" is correct in understanding.

1. Baptism by water is unto repentance towards God. Mat. 3:11,
2. Baptism by the Gift of God's Holy Spirit is unto salvation by God. John 3:3-8, Luke 11:13, Rev. 3:20.

Edit: as for Mat. 18:17, anyone can become a member of the visible church through baptism by water, but no one can become a member of Christ's invisible church, except through the baptism by His Holy Spirit.
Therefore, one can perform item #1, but only God performs item #2.
"...MANY be called, but few chosen." Mat. 20:16, Rev. 3:20, Rom. 8:9.

Have you been chosen?

 

[Earburner]

Have you been chosen?

Yes!!

 

[Marymog]

Yes!!

How did you find out you were chosen?

OR

How do you know you have been chosen?

Previously others have told me the same thing, but they really couldn't explain how they knew.

Sincerely, Mary

 

[Earburner]

How did you find out you were chosen?

OR

How do you know you have been chosen?

Previously others have told me the same thing, but they really couldn't explain how they knew.

Sincerely, Mary

I was given a dream/vision. In the vision, I was handed the book, having the name of "Timothy" on the cover in gold letters, and was told: "Read this, but no further".
There is much more detail in the dream.

I would not find out why I should not read any further, until the reality of the death of our dog took place two weeks later.

 

[face2face]

except to a water cult.

keep running behold...you're almost there!

 

[Brakelite]

With respect to the actual meaning of heresy. A heretic is one who chooses for himself what he may believe. This is regardless of whether or not it is truth. I think however God would prefer heretics, to those who surrender their thinking powers to another. At least God can talk and convince a heretic. It is more difficult when a non heretic had surrendered his will toa another, for example the church, because that offers the church ina position of authority higher than God. And that my friends is the essential mindset of the Papacy. It considers itself a higher authority than God Himself, by claiming the sole right to interpret scripture, and the right to punish those who "think for themselves"... Heretics... Because they refused to let the church think for them.

 

[Behold]

With respect to the actual meaning of heresy. A heretic is one who chooses for himself what he may believe

Actually, the mind of the unbeliever is blinded by the Devil, as if not..... the Light of the Gospel of the Grace of God would shine into them.

"shine into them" = means they would have this Truth as their belief system, vs being "mind Blinded" by Satan.

2 Corinthians 4:4

However, the Devil, has blinded their mind, so that they can't see the LIGHT....., until "faith comes by HEARING" The Gospel.
When that happens, they have been EN (IN) -LIGHTENED, by the Light of the World, Who is Jesus THE Lord, THE Christ, The Truth, who has come to live in them.

 

[Brakelite]

Actually, the mind of the unbeliever is blinded by the Devil, as if not..... the Light of the Gospel of the Grace of God would shine into them.

"shine into them" = means they would have this Truth as their belief system, vs being "mind Blinded" by Satan.

2 Corinthians 4:4

However, the Devil, has blinded their mind, so that they can't see the LIGHT....., until "faith comes by HEARING" The Gospel.
When that happens, they have been EN (IN) -LIGHTENED, by the Light of the World, Who is Jesus THE Lord, THE Christ, The Truth, who has come to live in them.

I wasn't talking about unbelievers. The church doesn't call unbelievers heretics. I was talking about heretics, those who choose to believe differently from the orthodoxy. Or the Catholic magisterium. Believing for oneself as opposed to simply accepting what others believe, is called religious liberty. It's a good thing. People who can think for themselves are teachable. Not so much those who surrender their God given intellects to others.

 

[St. SteVen]

Wow. What a GREAT post! thanks.
Here we are at page 12 and finally someone gets it.
(apologies to anyone I am overlooking at the moment)

With respect to the actual meaning of heresy. A heretic is one who chooses for himself what he may believe.

Right. That's where I was going with this.
I was seeing the word "heretic" being thrown around like thinking for yourself was some sort of pariah.
Seemed Jesus fit the definition in his day in regard to the "ruling" religion of his time and place.
He certainly wasn't there to cheer them on and support them in their evil.

This is regardless of whether or not it is truth.

Truth is a slippery thing.
At one time in history a flat earth was truth.
Then a globe was truth. Now flat earth theories are returning.
Even presented as biblical truth.

Maybe Pontius Pilate was right to ask, "What is truth?"

I think however God would prefer heretics, to those who surrender their thinking powers to another.

Agree.
Although we know God loves everyone regardless.

It would be interesting to do a personality profile of the people God uses most powerfully.
Were they independent thinkers, or followers? (or both?)

At least God can talk and convince a heretic. It is more difficult when a non heretic had surrendered his will toa another, for example the church, because that offers the church ina position of authority higher than God.

I have actually used this to my advantage when talking to agnostics. By definition they are OPEN to divergent ideas.
And oftentimes we agree with them, except for their conclusions.

And that my friends is the essential mindset of the Papacy. It considers itself a higher authority than God Himself, by claiming the sole right to interpret scripture, and the right to punish those who "think for themselves"... Heretics... Because they refused to let the church think for them.

Yes, oftentimes the church has placed itself firmly BETWEEN their parishioners and God as a sort of shield.
And for the most part, those who choose to stay behind that shield have a (false?) sense of security.
They can delegate their thinking to the religious institution instead of taking personal responsibility.
And Protestants are not immune from this mental/spiritual disease.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Was Jesus Heretical?

They were Heretical. They blamed Him for being so when it was them who were such. To me that is what He revealed to them, and they hated it. (Him) For example when He asked them Abraham would have rejoiced ... but you try to kill Me. An opportunity of self-reflection. "Why do you try to kill Me?" But some listened for example Saul/Paul when he was asked, "Saul Saul why do you persecute Me?" Big wake up moment of self-reflection (imo). That is why i think Jesus was not Heretical but instead they were what they accused Him of being and when self-reflection was given, they despised Him. Not because He was Heretical. But because they were.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

They were Heretical. They blamed Him for being so when it was them who were such. To me that is what He revealed to them, and they hated it. (Him) For example when He asked them Abraham would have rejoiced ... but you try to kill Me. An opportunity of self-reflection. "Why do you try to kill Me?" But some listened for example Saul/Paul when he was asked, "Saul Saul why do you persecute Me?" Big wake up moment of self-reflection (imo). That is why i think Jesus was not Heretical but instead they were what they accused Him of being and when self-reflection was given, they despised Him. Not because He was Heretical. But because they were.

John 3:19-21
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

For example when He asked them Abraham would have rejoiced ... but you try to kill Me. An opportunity of self-reflection. "Why do you try to kill Me?"

Their truthful reply in self-reflection should have been a humbling experience, a bowing and brought low moment before His asking…by admitting to Him in the sight of God and to all witnesses watching “we go about to kill you because the Love of God is Not in us.” But they refused because the love of God was not in them. Had they not refused then they would have not killed Him. Like Saul/Paul who was humbled and no longer persecuted the way of Christ but instead preached the very Faith he once persecuted.

Jesus Christ is (was)not heretical because the truth and love of God was (is) in Him.