Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?
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I see the term "heretic" and "unorthodox" thrown around a bit on the forum.
(less actually sine I posted these two topics about it) Go figure.
If understand that heretical simply means not aligning with the established status quo
we can determi9ne that the terms are best viewed in context of who the establishment is.
Not every establishment is holy and righteous. Jesus certainly challenged the establishment of His day.
Therefore, heretical is not ALWAYS a bad thing.
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Do what is right to please God.
While eating breakfast I considered my reply to a request to work a late shift. At this point I would typically say, "No thanks, I'm not available." But I considered adding a comment, "Consider Nigel, he has done awesome work lately." A few weeks back, Nigel was assigned to cover a late...
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Do what is right to please God.
While eating breakfast I considered my reply to a request to work a late shift. At this point I would typically say, "No thanks, I'm not available." But I considered adding a comment, "Consider Nigel, he has done awesome work lately." A few weeks back, Nigel was assigned to cover a late...
www.christianityboard.com
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We can remember that Herod pretended to have respect and adoration for baby Jesus - just to find an opportunity to end his life...
in the same manner Pontius Pilate pretended to have no fault with him after Rome had spent 30 years hunting him down.
Rome had previously killed a whole town of little children to end attempt to end his life and even later began killing the followers of Jesus, harassing and terrorizing the Jews and imprisoned and beheaded his cousin John The Baptist
suddenly, when Jesus is brought before a court - Pontius Pilate claims that he finds no fault with him ?
If Rome had found no fault with Jesus why did they spend nearly 12 hours torturing him to death. ? -
the point was to make a point to the Jews, this is what happens when you attempt to follow the scriptures and serve God and deny the power of Rome and her authority and her gods...
could it be that there were multiple factors in why a number of Jews were publicly supporting the death of Jesus
fear
panic
terror
shock
anger
confusion
Perhaps many Jews were misinformed and truly believed that Jesus was absolutely a huge trouble maker and a threat to their very survival and a danger to the lives of their families and children and that by having him condemned by Rome would save their lives and keep peace.
He plans to gather them from around the world and bring them back to their homeland and protect them.
Just because a Jew does not believe that Jesus was not the Messiah sent from God.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
many factors like this play a role on how a people living in terror, violence and oppression will react. Can we also realize that Jesus only spent 3 years ministering and teaching, preaching and working among the people with miracles, signs and power in demonstration - " 3 years " !
3 years is not a very long time - It seems that Jesus was sent by God set up this event and purposefully created and orchestrated the environment and created the atmosphere that led to his capture, judgment and execution
even the timing of just spending 3 short years was also done purposefully - this all created the perfect environment for Jesus himself to be a very confusing, misunderstood and " controversial " figure and right in the crosshairs of Rome herself with the Jewish people testing his intentions all the way to calvary.
Many people read the Bible and seem troubled about the fact that Jesus is praying to God and yet God is within him
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
The son here is not only speaking to God but he is praying through the very Spirit Of Holy that is within him - God's Spirit is praying through Jesus while in Jesus -
the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered - we also have Gods Spirit Of Holy within us as God speaks through us - speaking unto himself
in the same manner Pontius Pilate pretended to have no fault with him after Rome had spent 30 years hunting him down.
Rome had previously killed a whole town of little children to end attempt to end his life and even later began killing the followers of Jesus, harassing and terrorizing the Jews and imprisoned and beheaded his cousin John The Baptist
suddenly, when Jesus is brought before a court - Pontius Pilate claims that he finds no fault with him ?
If Rome had found no fault with Jesus why did they spend nearly 12 hours torturing him to death. ? -
the point was to make a point to the Jews, this is what happens when you attempt to follow the scriptures and serve God and deny the power of Rome and her authority and her gods...
could it be that there were multiple factors in why a number of Jews were publicly supporting the death of Jesus
fear
panic
terror
shock
anger
confusion
Perhaps many Jews were misinformed and truly believed that Jesus was absolutely a huge trouble maker and a threat to their very survival and a danger to the lives of their families and children and that by having him condemned by Rome would save their lives and keep peace.
He plans to gather them from around the world and bring them back to their homeland and protect them.
Just because a Jew does not believe that Jesus was not the Messiah sent from God.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
many factors like this play a role on how a people living in terror, violence and oppression will react. Can we also realize that Jesus only spent 3 years ministering and teaching, preaching and working among the people with miracles, signs and power in demonstration - " 3 years " !
3 years is not a very long time - It seems that Jesus was sent by God set up this event and purposefully created and orchestrated the environment and created the atmosphere that led to his capture, judgment and execution
even the timing of just spending 3 short years was also done purposefully - this all created the perfect environment for Jesus himself to be a very confusing, misunderstood and " controversial " figure and right in the crosshairs of Rome herself with the Jewish people testing his intentions all the way to calvary.
Many people read the Bible and seem troubled about the fact that Jesus is praying to God and yet God is within him
as though God is talking to himself
but we can remember that Jesus explained that he does nothing of himself
The Son can do nothing of himself, but ' what he seeth the Father do ' :
for what things soever he " the Father " doeth, - these also doeth the Son likewise.
but we can remember that Jesus explained that he does nothing of himself
The Son can do nothing of himself, but ' what he seeth the Father do ' :
for what things soever he " the Father " doeth, - these also doeth the Son likewise.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
The son here is not only speaking to God but he is praying through the very Spirit Of Holy that is within him - God's Spirit is praying through Jesus while in Jesus -
the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered - we also have Gods Spirit Of Holy within us as God speaks through us - speaking unto himself
They crucified Him because His true message was hidden within the words He spoke, as Jesus said in John 8:43:
“Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.”
His speech (the outward words) was not the same as His Word. The Word was hidden within His speech, beyond what could be grasped on the surface.
It is no different today with the Bible. The written words are before us, but His living Word is hidden within them.
Was Jesus Heretical? - Why did they crucify Him?
Follow-up to the Was Jesus Orthodox? (or Baptist) topic.
The previous thread examined the term 'orthodox".
This thread will focus on the term "heretical".
In the same way that something is not considered orthodox,
it may also be termed as heretical. Thus labeling the person targeted as a heretic.
Such as were burned by the Church at one time.
Was Jesus Heretical?
Arguments or comments from either side are welcome.
Perhaps we should begin by defining heretical?
Lambano
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"Heretical" is non-compliance to normative theological standards defined by a particular Theological Standards' Authority.
Lambano
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* Why is that? Because the majority defines the baseline behavior that defines insanity.
No, the Jews were heretical.
God, as the highest authority, cannot be heretical. It is illogical.
Lambano
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Theological Standards Authorities are not actually God; they only claim to speak for Him.
Just about every member of this forum considers himself/herself a Theological Standards Authority, defining orthodoxy and heresy as they see fit.
Logic rarely has anything to do with what goes on here.
Jesus was/is God. The highest theological authority.
All the Jewish theological authorities who opposed Him were heretical.
Lambano
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And who has spoken for Jesus throughout the last 2000 years, and who claims to interpret His words now?
The Jews were the standard of orthodoxy in Jesus' day.
By comparison, Jesus was heretical.
That has nothing to do with it.
Are you frightened of the word heretical?
Which ones? Saducees, Pharisees, the High Priest, Essenes, Zealots or some other Jewish sect...?
God cannot be heretical, it is illogical by definition.
"Why did they crucify Him?"
1. Because He told them the truth - that He is God, that they are corrupted and fallen away and that they will be all judged and burnt, that the new age is coming, that the temple will be destroyed together with the city and that the worship will change.
2. And because He was influential and popular. They could not just ignore Him.
Also, because He did not keep the Sabbath and taught against some commands in the Law (cancelled "hate your enemy", cancelled divorce etc.). Whenever the Jewish establishment tried to rebuke/correct Him, He simply dismissed their authority over Him and predicted their quick end.
1. Because He told them the truth - that He is God, that they are corrupted and fallen away and that they will be all judged and burnt, that the new age is coming, that the temple will be destroyed together with the city and that the worship will change.
2. And because He was influential and popular. They could not just ignore Him.
Also, because He did not keep the Sabbath and taught against some commands in the Law (cancelled "hate your enemy", cancelled divorce etc.). Whenever the Jewish establishment tried to rebuke/correct Him, He simply dismissed their authority over Him and predicted their quick end.
Behold
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Its not "the chruch" that burned people........its Cults and particular groups of Heretics.
In general, you had the Mary-Cult that murdered people, after defining them as a "heretic"., or you have early Calvinists who burned people that didnt agree with their cult theology.
Lambano
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In particular, the Sanhedrin had the official authority to rule on matters of Torah. And the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes all had their own rulings about what was normative - and what was heresy.
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