Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus' nature was no different than ours.

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham..r."

Whatever kind of nature had the "seed of Abraham", Jesus had that nature.

Those of you who claim Jesus had some unfair advantage over humanity to live a perfectly obedient life are the best players on Satan's team, for if Jesus had just one ounce of advantage over us, Satan would daily be in the face of God accusing Him as unjust before the entire universe for demanding humans meet the same standard as Jesus did, yet without His advantage...and Satan would be absolutely right.

Yes, apart from Him we can do nothing, but we "can do ALL THINGS through Christ".

Some are bringing your statements to my attention. I want to ask you something. If Jesus was so prone to sin as we are how can we do all things through Christ? If Christ had no advantage how could He help us do all things? You're not making sense. I hope you read my other post to you. The reason why Jesus DID have an advantage over sinful man was because He was conceived from the seed of the Father. And the real reason why we can do all things through Christ is because it makes us born again of the SEED OF THE FATHER. 1 John 3:9.

cc: @Blue Dragonfly's

 

[face2face]

Hebrews does not prove He was only human. It proves His body was human.

Well consider the facts.

Jesus has a beginning - he was given life
Jesus has our nature and tempted an points like us
Jesus died like we do.

God is none of the above!

Yeshua had His own power. Nothing to say that He was tapping Yahweh's power.
John 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:6 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Colossians 1:16-17 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

True God made everything with His Son in mind and without Him doing this nothing would exist.

Yeshua was a God when He was born. Maybe when he was conceived....How Gods relate to the time continuum is another topic.

He was first the Son of Man - this is something you should study and learn well before jumping to the wrong conclusions about him. Even in his glorified state does he claim to be God? or Son of Man (Revelation 22:16)

That must be fairly important...wouldnt want miss why he sees himself as the offspring of David.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Swing and a miss. I never said anything about human advantages over animals. Both have flesh and spirit. The flesh dies and returns to the earth from whence it came, the spirit returns to God (from whence it came).

The spirit returns to God and man becomes nothing - no existence! Not a swing and a miss - Solomon hits it out of the park! You can try an force the immortal soul on Scripture but you are wasting your time its not there.

 

[face2face]

Some are bringing your statements to my attention. I want to ask you something. If Jesus was so prone to sin as we are how can we do all things through Christ? If Christ had no advantage how could He help us do all things? You're not making sense. I hope you read my other post to you. The reason why Jesus DID have an advantage over sinful man was because He was conceived from the seed of the Father. And the real reason why we can do all things through Christ is because it makes us born again of the SEED OF THE FATHER. 1 John 3:9.

cc: @Blue Dragonfly's

A fantastic post and question!

Read Isaiah 50 my word what a wonderful study! Isaiah 50:4

What was unique to the Master in a way only others have shown glimpse's!?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

'
You're almost there!
Drop the duality and learn Paul's understanding the divine nature is a change to our current state...its put on! not already in us. Jesus was only flesh and blood nothing more and nothing less.
F2F

No, Jesus was more. His nature while on earth was the same as our more powerful nature once we are born again. Jesus NEVER had a sin nature. It all comes down to the seed of the Father. 1 John 3:9. The same seed that makes us born again, Jesus was conceived with! Understand? That freed us from committing sins of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4.

But we also have a human nature where the fruit of the Spirit are planted. But it was not the corrupt human nature that was Adam's after he sinned, but was what he was created with. This is why though we are free from sins of lawlessness (mortal sins) immature fruit can make us commit trespasses, Leviticus 5:15. Matthew 6:14-15 tells us how to be forgiven of those. And as we walk in the Spirit they are continually cleansed 1 John 1:7.

 

[Mr E]

The spirit returns to God and man becomes nothing - no existence! Not a swing and a miss - Solomon hits it out of the park! You can try an force the immortal soul on Scripture but you are wasting your time its not there.

You are swinging at shadows. I'm not forcing anything on anyone. Who said anything contradicting Solomon or anything about an immortal soul (besides you) ???

Take a breath.

 

[face2face]

....Try Isaiah 11:3 he was given "quick understanding" - the ability to perceive the things of God's Spirit more than any other because afterall His Father is Yahweh!

 

[Grailhunter]

If you believe Jesus preexisted then it wasnt an inheritance!

How can God inherit anything?

Inheritance in as a general term.

 

[face2face]

You are swinging at shadows. I'm not forcing anything on anyone. Who said anything contradicting Solomon or anything about an immortal soul (besides you) ???

Take a breath.

Maybe you should define what you believe then? Might help possibly?

 

[face2face]

Inheritance in as a general term.

List what Christ inherited for his obedience and sacrifice?

 

[Mr E]

Maybe you should define what you believe then? Might help possibly?

Thanks for asking (instead of making up things). I began laying it out in Post 502 of this thread.

Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus has a beginning - he was given life
Jesus has our nature and tempted an points like us
Jesus died like we do.

God is none of the above!

It would be wise to consider the intent of this effort....
I have been there in a Kingdom Hall where they huddled together to conspire to prove that Yeshua was not God.
Yeshua's body died, but you cannot kill a God. Much to Satan's dismay, He found that out the hard way.
Yeshua's nature was perfection....Divine perfection. Temptation yes....I have already given you the scripture for that....He was tempted but He was master over it.

True God made everything with His Son in mind and without Him doing this nothing would exist.

Well that is a mouthful....and true....but much more complicated than you know.

He was first the Son of Man - this is something you should study and learn well before jumping to the wrong conclusions about him. Even in his glorified state does he claim to be God? or Son of Man (Revelation 22:16)

LOL Belly roll! If you only knew. The fact that Yeshua was the Son of God was established at the beginning of the Gospels. The question is why did HE refer to Himself as the Son of Man and why didn't He tell the Jews that He was their messiah?
What would the real Son of God be? .....and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” But even after the resurrection He referred to Yahweh as His God.

Why didn't Yeshua puff up His chest and beat it and say, I am a God! Could be a matter of humility. Then I can say I am anything....but if I performed the miracles that Yeshua did, what would I be? What other than a God could perform those miracles? The power behind the body.

 

[Grailhunter]

List what Christ inherited for his obedience and sacrifice?

You tell me.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It would be wise to consider the intent of this effort....
I have been there in a Kingdom Hall where they huddled together to conspire to prove that Yeshua was not God.
Yeshua's body died, but you cannot kill a God. Much to Satan's dismay, He found that out the hard way.
Yeshua's nature was perfection....Divine perfection. Temptation yes....I have already given you the scripture for that....He was tempted but He was master over it.



Well that is a mouthful....and true....but much more complicated than you know.



LOL Belly roll! If you only knew. The fact that Yeshua was the Son of God was established at the beginning of the Gospels. The question is why did HE refer to Himself as the Son of Man and why didn't He tell the Jews that He was their messiah?
What would the real Son of God be? .....and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” But even after the resurrection He referred to Yahweh as His God.

Why didn't Yeshua puff up His chest and beat it and say, I am a God! Could be a matter of humility. Then I can say I am anything....but if I performed the miracles that Yeshua did, what would I be? What other than a God could perform those miracles? The power behind the body.

F2F is JW?

I thought their circular false rhetoric was somewhat familiar. Though they don't appear to actually know a whole lot about JW's either.

If they are JW that would explain a lot.

 

[Mr E]

Why didn't Yeshua puff up His chest and beat it and say, I am a God! Could be a matter of humility. Then I can say I am anything....but if I performed the miracles that Yeshua did, what would I be? What other than a God could perform those miracles? The power behind the body.

Ummmm..... every hear of a guy named Elisha?

I agree that it is through God (by God) that the power to do miracles comes from... 'the power behind the body.' That power doesn't necessitate that Elisha or Jesus was the God who empowered them.

 

[Mr E]

F2F is JW?

I thought their circular false rhetoric was somewhat familiar. Though they don't appear to actually know a whole lot about JW's either.

If they are JW that would explain a lot.

Gotta put a label on it right? Pin the tail on the theology. A favorite game of the righteous.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ummmm..... every hear of a guy named Elisha?

I agree that it is through God (by God) that the power to do miracles comes from... 'the power behind the body.' That power doesn't necessitate that Elisha or Jesus was the God who empowered them.

LOL And Moses performed miracles and it did not mean he was a god. It is the number and the significance of His miracles that prove He was more than a man.

 

[Mr E]

LOL And Moses performed miracles and it did not mean he was a god. It is the number and the significance of His miracles that prove He was more than a man.

Ah.... of course! I recognize another cult!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus has a beginning - he was given life
Jesus has our nature and tempted an points like us
Jesus died like we do.

I thought we discussed this. Oh, maybe it was someone else...

face2face, how is John 1:1 stated in your Bible?

If it says "a god" instead of "was God," then your Bible doesn't even make sense. How can any part of God be a pagan god? God's voice is still God. And His voice was called the Word. That is why it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

That part of God emptied Himself of His divine power to become flesh. That is in verse 14:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

So you see, Jesus was God before he became man.

Philippians 2:
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Jesus was tempted means he was tested, but that doesn't mean he ever failed a test. And He has made it possible for us to shed the carnal sin nature that we inherited from Adam, that Jesus never had, so you are mistaken there. He was conceived with the seed of the Father just as we are when we are born again. That is why we can also pass every test. 1 John 3:9, "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

Does your denomination teach you 1 John 3:9?

 

[face2face]

You tell me.

Let's play then...

Philippians 2:9

Highly exalted (clearly wasn't before!)...You cant highly exalt someone if they preexisted as an exalted being
Given a name (how so, if he already had one?)

F2F