Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[marks]

It’s just a difference of seeming the matter, not heresy.

The corruption of sin is in the heart of the man, and his thoughts and choices and actions are sinful, having arisen from the corruption of their mind and flesh.

Ephesians 2:2-3 KJV
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

We grow up that way, and remain that we until we are reborn being immersed into Christ.

To charge Jesus with the corruption of sin, that's heresy.

Even the inner desire for evil things, this also is sin.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Did I say that Jesus sinned, @marks?

 

[Charlie24]

It’s alright @Charlie24,

We aren’t talking about Jesus being born by a man… we know that he was still born of flesh… by being in the Mother Mary’s womb…

I’m not suggesting or saying a man impregnated Mary at all.

Jesus was born, being the Word of God made flesh.

But as it turns out people have trouble accepting the fact that Jesus could have sinned on his own merit but was held back by the word of God and the Spirit of God with Him.

I don’t care what people believe, people on the board are willfully discussing it.

Saying Jesus had a sin nature makes people feel a certain way (it doesn’t make it any less true) as though Jesus wasn’t holy or something he very much was, he was very much also indwelled by the Word of God inside of his outward fleshly body that named Jesus.

It is alright if some of this audience doesn’t understand or even care to try to think about these things. It doesn’t effect salvation by any means.

The word of God born flesh named Jesus was living inside the flesh that was named Jesus, and God was very much with them, named Immanuel.

Im not trying to share anything new that is not already there for people to learn about by their own selves. Ya know?

Hope you read all this.

What makes it ridiculous is that you believe Christ had a sin nature when you can plainly see that the Spirit of God placed Christ in the womb. Unlike us who are born of the natural process of procreation through the seed of man.

What does it mean to be born of the Spirit, Matthew? Were you born of the Spirit from your mothers womb?

No one can explain what the Holy Spirit did in the birth of Christ, but we know His birth was of the Spirit, which means it was impossible for there to be a sin nature inherited by fallen man as we have.

 

[MatthewG]

I just accept what Paul said about it @Charlie24, and @marks

Romans 8
3 for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,

4 that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Would you argue with Paul too?

2 Corinthians 5:21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, but in his case never sinned.

Don't you understand or get it?

If Jesus would have sinned he would have corrupted the flesh that was going to be sacrificed for sin.

Why is it so hard for people to understand?

 

[marks]

Did I say that Jesus sinned, @marks?

You've said that Jesus was born with the corruption of sin in His flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

They were two different kinds of humans. Jesus was in the likeness of sinful flesh, not IN sinful flesh.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If Jesus would have sinned he would have corrupted the flesh that was going to be sacrificed for sin.

All are born corrupted by sin. This is why everyone sins. Even as you are learning what sin is, so as to become responsible, you are already sinning.

All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. All of who? All born from Adam.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why is it so hard for people to understand?

I think the lack of understanding results from a failure to fully appreciate what all the words of Scripture say.

The corruption of flesh is real, and Jesus did not partake of sin's corruption of His flesh.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

You've said that Jesus was born with the corruption of sin in His flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV
45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

They were two different kinds of humans. Jesus was in the likeness of sinful flesh, not IN sinful flesh.

Much love!

Can you quote where I said that during any of my dialogues?

Jesus had two natures, the flesh and the spirit. Adam died and lost that when he had sinned. Jesus never sin, so he never lost the spirit, and he also never sinned in his flesh. But he could have... he was tempted.

4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Could have Jesus surcummbed if he wanted to? Yes he could have but where was his mind always on?

Luke 2:49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”

Let me ask you this question @marks, what difference does it make if Jesus had a sin nature or did not have a sin nature?

Because all the sin nature is simply having the ability to choose sin. Jesus never choose sin, however Adam and Eve did.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
FAQ: From whence did baby Jesus obtain a Y chromosome for his male
gender?

REPLY: In the beginning, Eve's entire body was constructed with material
taken from Adam's body.

Seeing as how Eve is the mother of all women, then any material taken from
Mary's body to construct a Y chromosome for baby Jesus would be owed to
Eve's body.

The beauty of it is that a Y chromosome constructed with material taken
from Mary's body would not be an alien substance created ex nihilo; but
would be 100% natural, and easily traceable all the way back to Eve, and
from thence to the very dust that was used to construct Adam's body.

I can't prove any of this of course, but nevertheless I sincerely believe that
what I suggest herein actually took place when the power of the Most High
overshadowed Jesus' mom per Luke 1:35; and if my suggestion is true, then
little Jesus was thoroughly a Jew from top to bottom-- biologically
descended, as all other Jews, from the Man that God created in the book of
Genesis.

• Heb 2:17 . . He had to be made like his brethren in every way
_

 

[Charlie24]

I just accept what Paul said about it @Charlie24, and @marks

Romans 8
3 for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,

4 that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Would you argue with Paul too?

2 Corinthians 5:21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

I certainly would not argue with Paul that "the flesh being weak" is man not being able to keep the Law which made the Law unable to save man.

I would not argue with Paul that Christ came in the flesh to condemn sin in the flesh by destroying the power of sin over us.

I would not argue with Paul that Christ did this that the Law, which we cannot keep, may be fulfilled in us by us allowing the Holy Spirit to do it through us. That would be called "walking in the Spirit."

 

[Charlie24]

Jesus was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, but in his case never sinned.

Don't you understand or get it?

If Jesus would have sinned he would have corrupted the flesh that was going to be sacrificed for sin.

Why is it so hard for people to understand?

In the "likeness of sinful flesh" does not mean He was sinful flesh!

This means that Christ was a human being, conformed in the appearance to sinful flesh.

 

[MatthewG]

Good you guys and women can argue with me all day long, but look and see what the Bible has to say and think for yourself, and don't believe everything you been taught, . . . I am not a man who holds up traditions of man, as I see them as failure. I do not believe that people who hold on to traditions are not right with God, but it blinds sight human beings to what is truth and that is why "STRONGLY DO I SUGGEST READING the Bible AND LOOKING AT IT AND ASKING YOURSELF QUESTIONS ABOUT IT", traditions of man are just traditions of what people hold on to and do over and over again, doesn't make them true.

Thank you @Webers_Home for your astute observation there in post #92


I do not see what is wrong with saying hey Jesus had a fleshly nature, he walked by the spirit, and the WORD OF GOD was in his Body helping Him to never fail.

@Charlie24, everyone keep repeating the same thing over and over again and not listening...

Jesus was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh okay. That is very real flesh, but it is not sinful because it (THE FLESH) never came under the condemnation of sin (by Jesus himself), until it (THE FLESH) did on the cross. And it (THE FLESH) was taking on the sins of the people. And whenn Jesus died on the cross he gave up the Ghost or the Spirit - and Where did the Word of God go after this?

He went to the heart of the earth, to Paradise and to the Prison parts of Sheol before being raised on the third day. By God, in the fleshly body that he had died in. Then some time later ascended on to heaven.

The Body that the word of God lived in named Jesus, had to bear the punishment of sin... some people say Jesus bared the punishment of Gods wrath but that is a lie...

Anyway, whatever you have problems with or troubles accepting this it is on you, not me as Ive done tried to explain it a thousand times and now I'm bored of the subject. (its not a salvation issue anyway)

Thank God mercy and grace, love to you all take care.

 

[Charlie24]

Good you guys and women can argue with me all day long, but look and see what the Bible has to say and think for yourself, and don't believe everything you been taught, . . . I am not a man who holds up traditions of man, as I see them as failure. I do not believe that people who hold on to traditions are not right with God, but it blinds sight human beings to what is truth and that is why "STRONGLY DO I SUGGEST READING the Bible AND LOOKING AT IT AND ASKING YOURSELF QUESTIONS ABOUT IT", traditions of man are just traditions of what people hold on to and do over and over again, doesn't make them true.

Thank you @Webers_Home for your astute observation there in post #92


I do not see what is wrong with saying hey Jesus had a fleshly nature, he walked by the spirit, and the WORD OF GOD was in his Body helping Him to never fail.

@Charlie24, everyone keep repeating the same thing over and over again and not listening...

Jesus was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh okay. That is very real flesh, but it is not sinful because it (THE FLESH) never came under the condemnation of sin (by Jesus himself), until it (THE FLESH) did on the cross. And it (THE FLESH) was taking on the sins of the people. And whenn Jesus died on the cross he gave up the Ghost or the Spirit - and Where did the Word of God go after this?

He went to the heart of the earth, to Paradise and to the Prison parts of Sheol before being raised on the third day. By God, in the fleshly body that he had died in. Then some time later ascended on to heaven.

The Body that the word of God lived in named Jesus, had to bear the punishment of sin... some people say Jesus bared the punishment of Gods wrath but that is a lie...

Anyway, whatever you have problems with or troubles accepting this it is on you, not me Ive done tried to explain it a thousand times and now I'm bored of the subject.

Thank God mercy and grace, love to you all take care.

The bottom line to all of this is that if what you are saying is true, the virgin birth was not necessary.

According to your false teachers Christ could have been born as we are, by the seed of man, without the Holy Spirit having anything to do with it. And all would have turned out well.

Well, that is not true, Matthew, the virgin birth was necessary for all the reasons I have explained, but you will not listen and that's fine with me. I'm moving on now, catch you later!

 

[MatthewG]

The bottom line to all of this is that if what you are saying is true, the virgin birth was not necessary.

According to your false teachers Christ could have been born as we are, by the seed of man, without the Holy Spirit having anything to do with it. And all would have turned out well.

Well, that is not true, Matthew, the virgin birth was necessary for all the reasons I have explained, but you will not listen and that's fine with me. I'm moving on now, catch you later!

Why do you see the virgin birth not being nessicary just because of everything that I shared?

I believe it was nessicary because God deemed it nessicary to be done, according to the Angel who visited with Mary, she was highly favored.

 

[MatthewG]

If I said something like "The virgin birth wasn't nessicary because of blah blah blah" it would be understood but I never did that at any point speaking to anyone here...

 

[marks]

Let me ask you this question @marks, what difference does it make if Jesus had a sin nature or did not have a sin nature?

We should clarify something. The Bible never speaks of a "sin nature". Never.

Ephesians 2:2-3 KJV
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Here is a place where it does speak of a "nature".

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past

and were by nature the children of wrath

Jesus was not a part of that. This is the place of the first Adam, of the earth, earthy. Jesus is the Last Adam, the Lord from heaven.

Saying Jesus had a "sin nature", so-called, is to charge Him with the same corruption of sin we all share, and to make Him likewise by nature a child of wrath, and that is heresy.

Because all the sin nature is simply having the ability to choose sin.

Not, "sin nature", rather, corrupt flesh. And corrupt flesh sins. That's why all sin and fall short of God's glory. Jesus was "in the likeness of sinful flesh", not, "in sinful flesh."

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

We should clarify something. The Bible never speaks of a "sin nature". Never.

Ephesians 2:2-3 KJV
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Here is a place where it does speak of a "nature".

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past

and were by nature the children of wrath

Jesus was not a part of that. This is the place of the first Adam, of the earth, earthy. Jesus is the Last Adam, the Lord from heaven.

Saying Jesus had a "sin nature", so-called, is to charge Him with the same corruption of sin we all share, and to make Him likewise by nature a child of wrath, and that is heresy.



Not, "sin nature", rather, corrupt flesh. And corrupt flesh sins. That's why all sin and fall short of God's glory. Jesus was "in the likeness of sinful flesh", not, "in sinful flesh."

Much love!

If Jesus would have sinned do you think his flesh would have then no longer been perfect? He had an earthly body just like Adam, only it was perfect in every single way. He had a body, he was actually even described as undesirable.


Isaiah 53 1
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.

 

[marks]

If Jesus would have sinned do you think his flesh would have then no longer been perfect? He had an earthly body just like Adam, only it was perfect in every single way. He had a body, he was actually even described as undesirable.


Isaiah 53 1
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.

Sin corrupts the sinner. Had Jesus committed sin, He would no longer be our sacrifice, His death would only pay for His own sin, and then He'd be dead, so it wouldn't deliver anyone.

Corruption of the flesh and sin go hand in hand. You don't have one without the other. To say that Jesus inherited the corruption of the flesh from Adam as did we is to say that He also was dead in trespasses and sin, and that He Himself needed a savior. And that is heresy.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Sin corrupts the sinner. Had Jesus committed sin, He would no longer be our sacrifice, His death would only pay for His own sin, and then He'd be dead, so it wouldn't deliver anyone.

Corruption of the flesh and sin go hand in hand. You don't have one without the other. To say that Jesus inherited the corruption of the flesh from Adam as did we is to say that He also was dead in trespasses and sin, and that He Himself needed a savior. And that is heresy.

Much love!

not if sin is never committed. Adam and Eve where fine until they made the choice to disobey, they were created under a law commanded by God do not eat.

Jesus was also born under Law of Moses and had to fulfill it…

Think about it.