Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

[Charlie24]

@MatthewG We have some serious problems here in this post! Where on earth did you find this? I know you did not come up with this yourself!

Adam and Eve were created with free choice but did not have a sin nature! They were created in the innocence of purity!

They had no idea what sin was, that is how they were naked and were not embarrassed, they were in the realm of innocence and purity.

God gave them one thing they could not do, eat from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil." There was no potion or ingredient in the fruit of that tree that "opened their eyes and they knew they were naked."

Their eyes were open to the knowledge of good and evil because they sinned! They have now done what God told them not to do (which is sin) and now they have fallen from that position of innocence and purity into another realm of being, disobedience!

God told them the day they ate of that tree they would die! That is spiritual death (separation from God). It is inevitable that spiritual death will bring forth physical death to man.

Now the innocence of man has fallen to disobedience of man with the result of spiritual and physical death.

This is called the "fall of man." Adam and Eve were created with the power of procreation. Now all that would be born by procreation from Adam and Eve will be born in this new realm of the results of their sin. That realm is the reality of sin, the sin nature.

We have all been born with this sin nature, we are all born fallen man from the womb.

But Christ was not born of man, He was born of the Spirit. Therefore Christ was not born with a sin nature as we are by the seed of fallen man.

That post begs the question, why did God put that tree in the Garden making it possible for His creation to fall?

The God given right of "free will" is why!!!!!!!!!!!

God wants man to love and serve Him by his own free will, not a bunch of robots running around that have no choice.

Everything that happens in the scripture past Genesis 2 is for that reason!

Everything that happens past Gen. 2 is the redemption plan of God for man to make it possible for "whosoever will......"

 

[LearningToLetGo]

The phrase "sin nature" confuses me so I'll disregard it for now.

Are you asking if Jesus is human, as in 100% fully flesh and blood like the rest of us? To that I say yes, absolutely. If he were not so then he could not unify us with God. That said, he is also 100% God. Hence he can unify God with us. How this works? I don't know. I don't need to know. Like the bronze snake, it just is. I'm OK with that.

Now the question then becomes, was it possible for Jesus to sin? I think so. He's human and was tempted. It's kind of meaningless to be tempted unless the temptation is legitimate. Also, Jesus expressed his own desire that potentially conflicted with the Father's. He asked for his cup to be taken from him if the Father would allow it. The Father did not allow it and Jesus accepted his will without hesitation but the potential to do otherwise is implied. Jesus never sinned but the potential to sin was there. It had to be since he was/is human also.

 

[Charlie24]

That post begs the question, why did God put that tree in the Garden making it possible for His creation to fall?

The God given right of "free will" is why!!!!!!!!!!!

God wants man to love and serve Him by his own free will, not a bunch of robots running around that have no choice.

Everything that happens in the scripture past Genesis 2 is for that reason!

Everything that happens past Gen. 2 is the redemption plan of God for man to make it possible for "whosoever will......"

One more thing to help you understand what happened in the Garden of Eden, Matthew. Give this some serious thought and you will begin to understand.

Adam and Eve were created to bring sons and daughters of God into this world in innocence and purity -- perfection!

Through the sin of Adam and Eve, the sons and daughters brought into this world are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, until they are born-again!

If you understand this you will understand what happened in the Garden!

 

[Charlie24]

The phrase "sin nature" confuses me so I'll disregard it for now.

Are you asking if Jesus is human, as in 100% fully flesh and blood like the rest of us? To that I say yes, absolutely. If he were not so then he could not unify us with God. That said, he is also 100% God. Hence he can unify God with us. How this works? I don't know. I don't need to know. Like the bronze snake, it just is. I'm OK with that.

Now the question then becomes, was it possible for Jesus to sin? I think so. He's human and was tempted. It's kind of meaningless to be tempted unless the temptation is legitimate. Also, Jesus expressed his own desire that potentially conflicted with the Father's. He asked for his cup to be taken from him if the Father would allow it. The Father did not allow it and Jesus accepted his will without hesitation but the potential to do otherwise is implied. Jesus never sinned but the potential to sin was there. It had to be since he was/is human also.

I agree 100%, in order for Christ to pay for the sins of man, the perfect sacrifice for man, He had to be fully man, or He would not qualify as that perfect sacrifice for man.

I also agree that it was possible for Christ to sin! He was born without a sin nature, but yet was tempted to sin with the choice choice to give in to that sin if He chose to. Satan would not have wasted his time tempting Christ if it were not possible, and Satan would have know this!

 

[Helen]

Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

No. But He had the ability to sin or the temptation would have been pointless …He overcame , and took back what Adam gave away…

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Most Christians, if required, will readily attest that Jesus was fully God and
fully Man; the meanwhile believing he was some sort of divine hominid
implanted in Mary's womb, viz: they honestly believe Mary was Christ's
surrogate mother rather than his real mother.

However, it's very easy to prove that Jesus was David's biological posterity;
and if David's, then of course Mary's too.

• Acts 13:22-23 . .He he raised up unto them David to be their king; to
whom also he gave testimony, and said: I have found David the son of
Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will. Of this
man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a saviour,
Jesus.

• Rom 1:3 . . His son Jesus Christ our Lord; who was born of the seed
of David according to the flesh

The "seed" in view with those two passages isn't spiritual seed. We know
that's so because it's according to the flesh, i.e. David's body.

This is extremely important because in order to qualify as a candidate for
David's throne, the man has to come from his loins; no exceptions: this
requirement is carved in scriptural stone.

• Ps 89:3-4 . . I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My
servant David: your seed I will establish forever, and build up your throne to
all generations.

Ergo: the below is literal.

• Rev 22:16 . . I am the offspring of David
_

 

[Charlie24]

.
Most Christians, if required, will readily attest that Jesus was fully God and
fully Man; the meanwhile believing he was some sort of divine hominid
implanted in Mary's womb, viz: they honestly believe Mary was Christ's
surrogate mother rather than his real mother.

However, it's very easy to prove that Jesus was David's biological posterity;
and if David's, then of course Mary's too.

• Acts 13:22-23 . .He he raised up unto them David to be their king; to
whom also he gave testimony, and said: I have found David the son of
Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will. Of this
man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a saviour,
Jesus.

• Rom 1:3 . . His son Jesus Christ our Lord; who was born of the seed
of David according to the flesh

The "seed" in view with those two passages isn't spiritual seed. We know
that's so because it's according to the flesh, i.e. David's body.

This is extremely important because in order to qualify as a candidate for
David's throne, the man has to come from his loins; no exceptions: this
requirement is carved in scriptural stone.

• Ps 89:3-4 . . I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My
servant David: your seed I will establish forever, and build up your throne to
all generations.

Ergo: the below is literal.

• Rev 22:16 . . I am the offspring of David
_

So you are saying that Christ was born of the seed of David literally. So how was that possible in that day when she was a virgin?

 

[Charlie24]

So you are saying that Christ was born of the seed of David literally. So how was that possible in that day when she was a virgin?

@Webers_Home , the reason I ask you that is because the entire state of Christ's humanity is based on Matt. 1:18.

" Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."

She conceived by the Holy Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

6 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. 7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. 8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) 10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God. 11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

 

[MatthewG]

“for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit — life and peace; because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself, for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ — this one is not His; and if Christ [is] in you, the body, indeed, [is] dead because of sin, and the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness, and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:6-11‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
Romans 8:8-11 for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath no | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

 

[ChristisGod]

Please, Barney, in MatthewG's case the ship has already sailed. Because of his mind's gymnastics, he missed out on getting aboard the right boat/ship.

Yes the truth be told there is no "sin nature" in the bible its the NIV's mis-translation. Its one thing to say that about fallen man its a whole different thing to falsely accuse the Divine Son of God.

@MatthewG does the Father have a " sin nature ?

That question will answer it for you. You do not understand the nature of God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If Jesus was flesh and blood like you and me, and was capable of being tempted, wouldn’t Jesus also been born with a sin nature?

hmm…Adam and Eve weren’t created with a sin nature. They were tempted and sinned. So it isn’t necessary to be created with a sin nature in order to be tempted of the devil and sin (or not). And the angels who fell were also not created with a sin nature but they did sin.

As for humans, since everything was made to bring forth of its own kind, Adam bore children in his own fallen likeness, so we are born that way.

But Jesus is a different story because He was not conceived in sin or by the plan of fallen human flesh but by the power of God He was conceived in a body.

This should be more than enough for us to see that we who have been born again by the same Spirit, He can make pure if we will only believe and trust He can and will do it as He has promised. True, we were born with our flesh ruling over us and not in subjection to Gods Spirit, but He can and will put this enemy under our feet if we trust Him to do it.

 

[MatthewG]

So we have a sin nature “the flesh” or no?

Im not talking about Father, Yahweh. We were created in his likeness meaning to have choice a mind a Will and emotions. However we are encased by a body of flesh.

We make choices, if Adam and Eve wasn’t given free will and choice then how did they sin?

Was God forcing them to make the choice?
If God forced them to make the choice then he caused the fall?

They were created good until they disobeyed God.

So wouldn’t Jesus also have a sin nature the word of God was encased in flesh and was still capable of sinning but the very word of God in Him, and the Holy Spirit of God kept him from sinning but Jesus at any time could have gone against it, right?

Jesus was of fleshly nature.

???

 

[Charlie24]

So we have a sin nature “the flesh” or no?

Im not talking about Father, Yahweh. We were created in his likeness meaning to have choice a mind a Will and emotions. However we are encased by a body of flesh.

We make choices, if Adam and Eve wasn’t given free will and choice then how did they sin?

Was God forcing them to make the choice?
If God forced them to make the choice then he caused the fall?

They were created good until they disobeyed God.

So wouldn’t Jesus also have a sin nature the word of God was encased in flesh and was still capable of sinning but the very word of God in Him, and the Holy Spirit of God kept him from sinning but Jesus at any time could have gone against it, right?

Jesus was of fleshly nature.

???

The incarnation is Christ entering into a new realm of being! From Spirit to flesh.

It was impossible for Christ to have a sin nature in that he was not born of the seed of man.

He was born of the Spirit! How hard is that to understand?

Adam and Eve brought the sin nature to man by committing the first sin. That is the fall from one nature, to another nature.

But Christ was not conceived through the seed of man.

 

[farouk]

"In Him is no sin" (1 John 3.5). "He knew no sin" (2 Corinthians 5.21). "He did no sin" (1 Peter 2.22).

The humbling wonder is that for the believer at the Cross "He was made sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5.21).

 

[MatthewG]

Come on guys

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

 

[MatthewG]

Not only was he conceived of the Holy Spirit he was formed in the body of Mary who was from the line of David, I believe I could be wrong.


Therefore, Mary was also from the house and lineage of David since she descended from David's son Nathan. The lineage of Joseph and the lineage of Mary match with the same names from Abraham to David. Joseph and Mary were distant cousins.Dec 25, 2016
The Jackson Sun | Jackson, Tennessee › style
The Genealogy of Jesus - The Jackson Sun

 

[PinSeeker]

Paul is very clear in Philippians 2, that "He was in the form of God... but... (was) born in the likeness of men... (a)nd... found in human form..." The Greek word translated to the English 'form' is 'morphe,' which denotes not merely shape, but essence and even nature. It means the true and exact nature of something, possessing all the characteristics and qualities of something. We also know that He was "in every respect... tempted as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4).

I would say yes, that when Jesus was born of Mary, He did have, from birth, this sinful nature that we do (he took it on, in Paul's words in Philippians 2), but because He was also fully possessing of the very nature of God, was able to resist the former perfectly and remain without sin. This is what qualifies Him as our Mediator and our Savior ~ He is both the Son of God and the Son of Man.

Is it not just astonishing that God would do this for us? All for us? To reconcile to Himself through the Person and work of Jesus ~ Himself ~ even those for whom it is impossible to be reconciled to Him? I say yes. For man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. Thanks be to our great God (all three Persons of Him).

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Charlie24]

Not only was he conceived of the Holy Spirit he was formed in the body of Mary who was from the line of David, I believe I could be wrong.


Therefore, Mary was also from the house and lineage of David since she descended from David's son Nathan. The lineage of Joseph and the lineage of Mary match with the same names from Abraham to David. Joseph and Mary were distant cousins.Dec 25, 2016
The Jackson Sun | Jackson, Tennessee › style
The Genealogy of Jesus - The Jackson Sun

That is correct! Joseph and Mary both came from the lineage of David.

Christ was born of Mary in that line of lineage in the flesh but not of the seed of man.

 

[MatthewG]

.
Most Christians, if required, will readily attest that Jesus was fully God and
fully Man; the meanwhile believing he was some sort of divine hominid
implanted in Mary's womb, viz: they honestly believe Mary was Christ's
surrogate mother rather than his real mother.

However, it's very easy to prove that Jesus was David's biological posterity;
and if David's, then of course Mary's too.

• Acts 13:22-23 . .He he raised up unto them David to be their king; to
whom also he gave testimony, and said: I have found David the son of
Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will. Of this
man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a saviour,
Jesus.

• Rom 1:3 . . His son Jesus Christ our Lord; who was born of the seed
of David according to the flesh

The "seed" in view with those two passages isn't spiritual seed. We know
that's so because it's according to the flesh, i.e. David's body.

This is extremely important because in order to qualify as a candidate for
David's throne, the man has to come from his loins; no exceptions: this
requirement is carved in scriptural stone.

• Ps 89:3-4 . . I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My
servant David: your seed I will establish forever, and build up your throne to
all generations.

Ergo: the below is literal.

• Rev 22:16 . . I am the offspring of David
_

Must be.